ramses666

iTrader: (1)

I'm Considering Non-Turbo Upgrade Possibilities.

Modern Staged Multi-Port Nitrous?

Why bother with all the weight, $'s & complications of Turbos & Intercoolers?

Various other upgrades would be required & beneficial - of course.

If a Properly Lightened Configuration was Designed into the Over-all Setup, 200 hp NA is a good place to add Staged Multi-port Nitrous with proper controls & monitoring.

I wonder how much weight difference a Renesis intake manifold vs. S4 or S5. It's a hefty chunk of Aluminum. I remember the Old Man had an FD Turbo Upper Cut in Half like some Bizarre Kielbasa... He was grinding all the insides out & then welding them back together... He was also gonna make a semi-peripheral port extra runner thing...

I think I could Fab Up a lightweight version of an S4-S5-Renesis NA Super Manifold Thingy with some of those skinny party balloons that clowns make balloon animals out of with epoxy & aluminum wool I've got in the Magical Rainy Day Craft Box!

What was that Password Again?!? :P Mecha-Shiva?

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

..even highly medicated I can't understand WTF you are trying to do!
But my room looks cool..

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

why not just start with the Renesis? 230hp stock. the Rx8 is 3000lbs too, so if you get the FC down to 2600lbs, it'll be pretty good

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

I'm gonna Sleep on it myself... Been looking at Body Kits... I'm Patiently Hopeful! If you can't ask for the correct parts to Fall Out of the Sky - Then how can you expect the Rotary Gods to Bless Us?

I'm all excited about Moding an S5 electric OMP to Squirt Mercury Quicksilver Spooge from Dedicated Dangling Dual Repositories with a Washing-Fluid Bidet-Fresh Spray on Demand from an upgraded ECU...

Can You Smell It? Sweet Lubed-Rotary Erotica?

Maybe your Meds need "Adjusting"? Are you Feeling the Bern? There's a Salve for that Festering Wound...

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

I couldn't find the Google translate page for any of this stuff..so I'll Stick to the English Version of the Rx7Club.
Good luck with your dangling spraying Bidet filled with Mercury....

fc323

Man, you're all over the place.
Mysterstyx69 is spot on, not even high quality medication can help me understand this one.

Are you one of those "free spirits" that no one can bring down?

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

Fine... I can accept that I'll never be able to Enlighten the Dim-witted. I'll just stop. I'd Hoped to at least be amusing, but perhaps even that attempt is Doomed to Failure in this Forum.

Nobody's Fault But Mine. I Apologize for Over-Estimating the I.Q. of the Typical Poster here.

I shall Refrain from Future Repetitions of Redundant & Rotarded Commentary.

I Hope you're Happy Now...

scathcart

You ramble nonsense and then insult those who can't understand it? You honestly believe what you post makes sense and that people don't understand you because they're dumber than you?

Wow.

All of your posts come across this way. You post ideas that make no sense, get sound advice, then get butt hurt and rude, then resort to just posting garbage.

I was willing to offer advice on direct port nitrous injection, but i don't care to now.

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

Glad to know I guess. I try not to just openly mock people, but I suppose it's not much better than the Nothing Responses of those that support Thuggery with Silence.

There were a few good ideas submitted - with some out of the box twisting something "Interesting" might Pop Out. Starting with a pair of T-Boned RX-8 6 port cars might be a good way to Populate a more modern Bone Yard.

How about Rotating the Engine Axis 90 deg and have a front wheel drive Engine-trans-dif-steering setup?

Then Duplicate that in the Rear!!! RX 787-D ? Front & Rear Engined FC? Maybe some Rear-steer as well? Dual-steering controls?

My old Honda Accord 6 cyl Front wheel drive would generally dust the NA S4 until you had to turn or something... Surely some kind of suitable drive trans-axle-thing already exists?

As far as upgrades... I think the OMP can be improved by blocking the engine oil inlet & tapping the OMP case with a Alternate Lube supply fitting & an auxilliary oil tank for a Custom Lubricant, such as Mercury Quicksilver for 2 stroke outboard marine engines.

I Believe that Burning Engine Oil in the OMP the #1 Mode of Failure for the Rotary Historically. A Simple Fix might work wonders. I saw Atkins Rotary used to sell a custom OMP replacement setup, but it seemed to complicated for a fancy plug, a drilled & tapped fitting & an oil-jug.

The Other Main Issue that I've experienced is the Lame S4-5 Wire Apex Seal Springs & that whole area gets filled with burnt OMP engine oil sludge... The S6 Conical Springs are far superior... but the OMP is the Real Villain here.

With Modern ECU capabilities I'd think Nitrous on a Properly Prepped NA could be worth investigating for the sake of discussion.

lastphaseofthis

iTrader: (8)

IT'S ok man, they dont like my ****** swearing and ****. like the forum owners Ip need to pull up there big boy pants and deal with ****, i mean wasnt it second grade i was told stick and stone break your bones, but vibartions of air waves cannont hurt you.... not hating on the mods that enforce the rules...
i get you. for the most part, you do understand some of the ideas you proppose are to far fetched to ever come to bare any fruit? you wanna make a double engine, double transmission hunk of car work? start googling, its been done. the practical way i saw it done is the front of a FWD corolla, and the rear of an MR2.

it's been done tho, sohn oil adapter.
thats not the apex seal and spring, look at a parts catalog you are talking about corner seals and springs, and everybuilder i know uses fd corner springs over the fc wire type

balloon animal intake.. use that to make a cast.... like sand casing, you could cast the runners seperatly then weld them togather to an intake flange.

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

Corners... yeah... that's what I meant... Thank You...

So, perhaps my OMP mod might depend on how much oil pressure is required? or is the OMP eccentric pump by itself enough to do the pumping if the drive cog is still spinning with the engine?

I'm looking at an S5 electric OMP ATM... but have the S4 Mechanical still on the running vehicle. I was gonna add an OMP rebuild kit on my to do list anyway... If I can do an easy Mod while I'm at it, then so much the better.

The cool thing about the ballon animal intake idea is that I have a couple of rolls of very fine aluminum wool & and several gallons of epoxy for my Rainy Day Crafting "Hobby"... It would be easy to wrap the balloons with aluminum wool & then wet the whole thing out with epoxy resin & vacuum bag it. You just Pop the balloons when your done. I could use some chicken wire to stiffen & hold whatever shape & then trim, attach or mill flanges & stuff to fit an aluminum lower intake manifold.

I think the Weight of the S4-5 intakes is excessive... I kinda Like the Renesis Plastic Intake... I wonder if there's any Compatability with an S4 6-port lower. Or maybe the whole Renny intake? I saw a pic a week or so ago... but thought the center plate was a little thicker or something silly like that... Cut out a slice in the middle & glue it back together? Put it in the Kitchen Oven at 500 deg & mash it together a little in the middle?

I do realize that some ideas are quite Far Fetched & un-likely to see Fruition... but that's how I choose to exercise my rotting Mushy-Mellon Brain these days...

I'll try & search for the Sohn adaptor OMP thingy...

Thoughts about Bottle-feeding in Public?

fc323

Oh good, finally. You do be posting nonsensical rotarded crap....

Also, like stated, the omp already has development that siphons oil from elsewhere.... rotary aviation has it.....almost as though people have already thought about these things......



And the renesis intake isnt plastic, only the uim. The lim is so much more bigger than the s4, it will not bolt up without its own sideplates.

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

Renesis upper to S4 lower? Maybe a small adaptor doo-dad? Much easier to fab than an Entire Freakin' Manifold out of Party Balloons... I suppose this was asked & answered long ago...

I looked at the Sohn Adaptor thing... same concept, but I believe the OMP itself can be tapped with a Nipple & a thin blocking plate would work ok... Perhaps? Maybe? I'm looking at one on the bench...

At least when these "been-there done that" things come up - It shows my thinking isn't completely off-base... Twisted Perhaps, but that's how I Roll...

How much weight would aluminum housings & plastic intakes with lightened rotors & flywheels shave off the NA? 75 lbs.?

lastphaseofthis

iTrader: (8)

if you wanted to mass product the omp adapters, you wouldnt want to collect 1000 of them to modified and return to customers unless you HAD to do it that way. the sohn and rotary aviation peices are damn near perfected bro, but i want to see this aluminum intake idea, post pix of your stuf, make a trail peice and see how it turns out..

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i don't know what's worse, that 95% of the content of these threads is barely worthy of the lounge. or that you're trying to make 10, 20, even 40+ year old ideas sound like they're your own..

for a renesis intake on a RX7, best of luck mating the plastic intake to an aluminum lower with no where remotely near the same pattern. the S5 uses a similar system of plumbing as the renesis intake, it is just that the S5 intake manifold needs to be reamed out to flow more up top. extrude honing isn't usually cheap though.

putting an RX8 engine into a 7? taking a step back in reliability.

putting nitrous on a n/a? we have a subforum for that already and plenty of discussions on that on there, let alone plenty of us have put nitrous on n/a cars.

not like there is no path for n/a guys, for giggles you can look up an intake/fuel/throttle body setup here for a semi pp, goopy also sells modified stock lower intakes:
Pro-Jay Store

build a semi PP streetable motor and add a 2 stage nitrous system with a standalone EMS, wouldn't be too difficult to urk out 400+hp. of course that all depends on your ability to tune the engine with nitrous, which can be even more difficult than tuning a turbo engine.

but in the end why bother? when you run nitrous you are no longer all motor and run with the big boys at the track, who will just blow you out of the water. if it's for street driving, it's no more reliable than a turbo engine.


most of your posts are degrading, talking about the senior members as if they hadn't put 15 years worth of information onto this forum. in fact i have over 25,000 posts on this website, regardless of what my current postcount is. how many times do i have to repeat information for it to be legitimate? use the search function like everyone else had to do. shitting on people for input isn't the way to make friends.

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

I'm Sorry & Offer an Apology to Senior Members, of which my standing has always been relegated to failing NA hand-me downs from a past Era. It's expected. & Deserved. & Rightly So...

I try My Best to Acknowledge the Giants upon Whose Shoulder's My Feeble Child-like Intellect Teeters Upon with Dances & Jokes & Jibes... & Especially those Present in this Forum that have Helped Blazed the Trail of Rotary History...

Old Posts are Old but Important Basic Things seem worth mentioning when Weird stuff just turns people off.

I'm interested in what's New... I'm somewhat familiar with this whole G@d D@mn NA-Turbo Thing from when I first came here with problems for my Father's bottom of the barrel S4 that I had to take care of when he got sick...

That was a long time ago & I kept that piece of Crap running till I found an '88 S4 GTU worth F@ckin' Saving & sent that 4-lug open-dif-franken motor, dis-integrating Poor Excuse for an RX-7 to the Junk-Yard... After Saving All the Upgraded Parts I'd bought over the years so that All That Time, $'s, Blood, Sweat, Tear & Years of Adventure didn't go to G@d-D@mn Waste...

I'm quite Familiar with the Search Function & the "Classic" Senior response of "Search Stupid..." It was Burned into my brain Long Ago in this Very Forum. It is Valid in most cases - & I'd like to point out My Reasons for taking Exception to the General Dictates of Senior Forum Decorum -

Namely - I want information from current users for this particular time period. Secondly, as a Senior Member, I'm "Supposed to Be" somewhat already educated about the Past History of this Forum & Thirdly, It might be helpful for Newcomers to get a look at the Process from a Fresh & Modern Perspective - Rather than Seniors simply guffawing the Tired Old Forum Lines with Copy & Pasted Snarky Put-Downs that might Be Playful or Provocative, but can come across as Un-friendly to New-comers that are interested in the Esoterica of Rotary Legend & Lore.

How Appalling it is doesn't really matter... I'm not going to stop being a Rotard... I think some amount of history, legend, speculation, fantasy & tolerance for immature & arrogant behavior is Assumed just by being here.... It wouldn't be any Fun & no one would hang out except for the chance to pound on some ignorant newbie that just doesn't know the difference...

My Feelings don't particularly matter & I wouldn't aggressively post if I did not want or expect others to answer in their own way & in kind... I get that Totally & understand that Respect for your Elder Rotary Professionals can Actually Help everyone Else who's listening... because Rotary Stuff is Simply Complicated.

Akaviri

iTrader: (1)

I think NA builds are fun to discuss. Unfortunately, I think people get too attached to the idea of making an NA rotary with the power of a turbo rotary. It just defeats the entire appeal of the NA car, in my opinion. You can't beat the ease of maintenance, reliability, and cheap parts associated with the NA cars. Sure, there are ways to stretch that engine to its limit but you are spending a fortune on diminishing returns and creating a difficult, short-lived headache.
For an S4 NA car, I think 200 horsepower is a nice stout goal to shoot for. I'm no expert and don't mean to be redundant but I would consider these things first and foremost:

Full tuneup: Spark plugs and wires, air and oil filters, fresh fluids. Clean engine grounds, adjust TPS. Make sure the engine is healthy and pulls consistently without any hesitations or weird symptoms.
Tires/Suspension: Fresh, grippy tires. Replace old worn suspension with some quality shocks & springs, or coilovers if you've got the budget. Polyurethane bushings are a great thing to replace. The car should handle nice and tight.
Exhaust/Intake: Replace the exhaust system with headers, a presilencer/high-flow cat, and cat-back system. Racing Beat, Apexi, RP, Bonez, Corksport, take your pick. For intake, the best thing would be a name brand cone filter with a custom air box. You can get creative with this, using a vented headlight for example, to route in ambient air.
Aux Ports: This is overlooked by many people, but accounts for a lot of the horsepower of the NA engine. On the S4, it's a pain in the *** because the factory method sucks. Buy an RPM switch and use it to activate the aux port actuators at around 4k RPM.
VDI: Get your hands on an S5 intake, modify it as necessary to mate up to the S4 engine, and use the same method as with the aux ports to hook up the variable dynamic intake system for around 6k RPM. This is a nice cheap DIY gain for the top end.
EMS: Depending on your budget, anything from an SAFC to a Megasquirt or Power FC or whatever will help you squeeze the rest of the potential out of your engine when tuned in the hands of a professional. This is not my area of experience or expertise, as I haven't even gotten to this point with my car.

There are other things I have heard of, such as throttle body mods, extrude honing, electric fans, emissions removal and the like, but I have no experience with these and my research on them has only yielded mixed results. There is always weight reduction as well, but I'm fond of my GXL's creature comforts.
Finally there is engine porting, of which I would recommend a street port. This will get you a nice gain without being difficult to manage and still retain the mild fuel consumption of the NA rotary.

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

..!!!../\...
I hope you put that page Back in the "Bible" when you are done with it!
That is some GOOD Info..thanks for posting that!

I'm bummed out that the N/A engine can't really be majorly improved without a big amount of money..and then it just gains so much HP and then hits a wall.
I hate to say it but That wall is when it is the time to go Turbo or other engine conversion if you will.
(why?..there is this weird thing about Guys and HP..something like good beer and great sex..you just can't get enough of it!)

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

Akaviri is Right on the $'s here for most NA options... I'm of the Thinking that fully capable ECU brains, some proper sensors in the proper places & some good tuning are the domain of Any Good Build...

I also agree that 200 hp is a reasonable goal to shoot for...

I'm also of the opinion that some weight reduction is good for economy & swiftness, but practicality for street use is more in line with this current discussion.

I wanna put a Nipple on my OMP so my favorite flavor of Lube gets Used for the Rotor-Seals instead of Filthy, Trashy Engine Oil :P

WTF is with the Boat-anchor head-light assemblies? Has anything "Modern" been done with that? Good-Grief! Maybe some wide row of LED's where the black bumper strip is or some cool recessed bulb-reflector thing with a cover or something in a body-kit... I might think about having the heaadlight cover pivot up opening ducts when the brakes need cooling, like some weird eyeballs... Something other than the same old stuff from years past?

For the NA, The space from removing stuff might be used to greatly extend the air-box dimensions into "Something More Useful" than just empty space... The NA is all about Pulsed Flow Dynamics... A Larger Volume of Area "May" be Cleverly Engineered to allow some significant benefits beyond the restricted stock designs.

Like wise other aero-god-damnits & flucking flow coo-coo-lations add up to being quicker than your Heavy Turbo Big Brother... (ok... Stock Turbo Maybe) of course getting power to the ground is a slippery slope of Chasing a Heroin Dragon... By the Time you get to 300 hp the NA drive train is not going to be reliable... If that much... depending...

Somewhat realistic expectations are more in line with NA builds... There's always a Bottle if I feel like Guzzling Consummables every now & then...

Akaviri

iTrader: (1)

(Ramses666) You should definitely take a stroll through Clokker's build thread, "She Followed Me Home, Honest"! It's infinitely long and obscure at times, but he experiments with a myriad of DIY intake ideas, engine bay rearrangements, and other grass roots modifications. It will definitely pique your interest.

I've made peace with my NA car's limitations. I see it as a fair price to pay for being able to hop in my RX-7 and drive into the sunset whenever I goddamn well feel like it. It seems like half the Turbo IIs out there are on jack stands 9 months out of the year. 200 horsepower in your GTU will be a very satisfying driving experience. You can rev that baby to the moon, tackling twisty roads and corners at full throttle!

Dak

Have you given any thought to ITB's. Some in the N/A section talk like they are the cat's meow.

Here's one way to get there after you have a stand alone ecu.
This: Sidedraft Carburetor Upper Manifold Section for 86-92 13B 6-Port - Racing Beat

plus this: 2900 Series

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

to make any real power means to just ditch the whole intake manifold, it also means either a PP or semi PP engine. Pro Jay has 4 barrel FI throttle bodies on their website that bolt right onto those semi PP lower intakes, however they don't sell 6 port lowers, but racing beat does(not a semi PP though) and it still uses the 4150 bolt pattern that the pro jay throttle bodies have.

anyone serious about making n/a power should just go with a peripheral port, what you do for fuel though is up to you. once you scrounge up all the n/a power your ears can tolerate then you can add nitrous.

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

I've got an S4 NA lower intake that I started Modding for a semi-peri-port addition. I was going to use 2 additional small ITB's. That was a Long Time Ago. Making a 6 Port NA into an 8 Port seemed just radically stupid to others at the time but that was then & maybe someone has had some success with that.

I was going to fabricate some kind of rotating valve for the ports to be variable in size & open-closing timing but no one else really had any interest in fooling around with silly NA stuff... It was always just a waste of time or a stupid idea because NA engines should just be thrown away as the Garbage that the Turbo Crowd claims them to be.

I've done the VDI on an S4 swap with RPM switches... Works good, but an ECU upgrade is really needed for anything to work correctly - the Stock ECU is an extremely Limiting Factor.

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

I'm still pondering the OMP possibilities. What if, instead of one tube going to each injector port, you tapped another fitting to each port with another set of tubes. The extra set of tubes could go to something like a pressurized spray can of WD-40 or PB-Blaster with an electrical activation?

Purge Mode?

Wait! Wait! Don't Tell Me!

Dak

Seems your over thinking this OMP business and veering back off into gibberish land. WD-40 and PB-Blaster weren't meant to be burned in an engine. If your that concerned about getting rid of motor oil being injected into the engine, since you have S4 block it off and pre-mix. Easy peasy.