Mazdatrix true-dual pics?
Thread Starter
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Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Tampa, FL
Thanks for the pic, but was looking for a pic like, under the car after its installed. How many people have this system. I am going to try to make my own setup, just need to know exactly how the presilencers fit in. I know they are presilencers for late-model 1st gens but I want to know how they fit in & if any shop can make them fit. Thanks alot.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 585
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From: Columbus, Ohio
.....
Don't be 
I'm sick of hearing you blab about the true dual this true dual that. You need to make yourself a custom true duel b/c that exhaust is too expensive for the performance gains. Racing beat sells uncollected flanges and you can find people mandrel bend you an exhaust.
I'm sick of hearing you blab about the true dual this true dual that. You need to make yourself a custom true duel b/c that exhaust is too expensive for the performance gains. Racing beat sells uncollected flanges and you can find people mandrel bend you an exhaust.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Tampa, FL
Lol, man I am in the process of getttin my own custom setup and would prolly already have it except I have to buy the presilencers to be sure that the 5th & 6th ports will open properly. I finally found a place that will do the piping for me but they want a diagram & I can not draw for ****. I am about to order the header, then the presilencers, & then pick some mufflers. Where do you need gaskets? Thanks.
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Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Columbus, Ohio
Originally posted by Ryde _Or_Die
Lol, man I am in the process of getttin my own custom setup and would prolly already have it except I have to buy the presilencers to be sure that the 5th & 6th ports will open properly. I finally found a place that will do the piping for me but they want a diagram & I can not draw for ****. I am about to order the header, then the presilencers, & then pick some mufflers. Where do you need gaskets? Thanks.
Lol, man I am in the process of getttin my own custom setup and would prolly already have it except I have to buy the presilencers to be sure that the 5th & 6th ports will open properly. I finally found a place that will do the piping for me but they want a diagram & I can not draw for ****. I am about to order the header, then the presilencers, & then pick some mufflers. Where do you need gaskets? Thanks.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Tampa, FL
Well I am basically trying to produce the Madatrix true-dual setup. Theres gives a 28% in HP, or so they say, & it uses presilencers. I called them & they assured me it is just enough back pressure to open the ports. If I had a very detailed (pics a plus) description of how to open the ports with the air pump I would do that, then worry about the port opening. Or do the exhaust & air pump actuation the same day.
Passenger
Posts: n/a
Many customers have their own dual system fabricated.
We recommend our header, which is modified to activate the 6-ports, and includes the hardware and piping needed.
EXHAUST HEADER 6PMOD SPECIAL MODIFIED #16127-6PMOD $200.00
We also fabricate and sell the connector pipe(s) that go from the header to the presilencers.
EXHAUST DUAL CONNECT 6P HEADER TO 2-16400
#160010 $119.44
You then need (2) 16400 presilencers @ $130 each, plus (2) 16195 flanges ($10 each) that bolt to the end of the presilencers. Your muffler/fabrication shop can then connect those flanges to your rear mufflers.
Also need (4) #40-3250-1480 gaskets @ $6.69 each, plus the header-to-engine gasket #13-4610-N326 $11.36
We recommend our header, which is modified to activate the 6-ports, and includes the hardware and piping needed.
EXHAUST HEADER 6PMOD SPECIAL MODIFIED #16127-6PMOD $200.00
We also fabricate and sell the connector pipe(s) that go from the header to the presilencers.
EXHAUST DUAL CONNECT 6P HEADER TO 2-16400
#160010 $119.44
You then need (2) 16400 presilencers @ $130 each, plus (2) 16195 flanges ($10 each) that bolt to the end of the presilencers. Your muffler/fabrication shop can then connect those flanges to your rear mufflers.
Also need (4) #40-3250-1480 gaskets @ $6.69 each, plus the header-to-engine gasket #13-4610-N326 $11.36
Thread Starter
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Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Tampa, FL
So for approximately $660 you get same setup without the mufflers? The mufflers cost $350 each? Man, I can some HKS one I want for 100 each. Hmm... think I might know what I am doing now. Thanks Mazdatrix.
Passenger
Posts: n/a
Yes, the 6-ports will still work. With a true dual system, we found there was not enough back pressure, anywhere near the presilencers, to open the 6-ports. That is why we use the header to do it.
If you aready have HKS mufflers, then you could also buy:
EXHAUST DUAL CONNECT 6P 16400 RT TO MUFF
#160011 $45.00
This will connect the right muffler to the right side presilencer.
Using the extra 16195 flange you would now have, we cut the front flange off the left HKS muffler, and weld on the 16195 at a different angle.
We have a jig to do this, -- you would need to bolt everything into the car to find the correct angle.
If you aready have HKS mufflers, then you could also buy:
EXHAUST DUAL CONNECT 6P 16400 RT TO MUFF
#160011 $45.00
This will connect the right muffler to the right side presilencer.
Using the extra 16195 flange you would now have, we cut the front flange off the left HKS muffler, and weld on the 16195 at a different angle.
We have a jig to do this, -- you would need to bolt everything into the car to find the correct angle.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,539
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From: Tampa, FL
Originally posted by Flavour
what about that greddy cat-back, isnt that better?
what about that greddy cat-back, isnt that better?
Mazdatrix...so the ports will open just with the header because of the modicications you guys have done to it, correct? So I don't need the presilencers unless I want it quieter? Thanks alot. Your giving me alot of valuable info.
Formula Mazda Driver
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 680
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From: Portland, Oregon, USA
Just my personaly opinion, but if you have FULL true dual exhaust, why keep your 6-ports. You will lose a minimal amount of low-end with a system like that. Then you could get whatever headers your want, no presilencers, and save yourself a bunch of money.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,539
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From: Tampa, FL
Well what I am now getting is that Mazdatrix does modifications to the header so its actually the header that actuates the 6 ports. I would like to keep them functional is possible. If it is the header that opens the ports I will order it tomorrow.
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Joined: Jul 2001
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speedracer
Speedracer is right. I have the duall uncollected but not on. It costed me 135. 185 totall. A muffler shop quoted me 150 for streight pipes installed. Mufflers costed 60 bucks each for long 24 inchers. So for 550-600 totall You can have an awsome exhaust. Of course people will tell you to get this and that but my way is cheapest doller per horspower and nowone will tell that its custom or mazdatrix.
Im selling my duall outs for 75. You pay shipping. Im buying my friends full rb duall so I dont need mine.
Im selling my duall outs for 75. You pay shipping. Im buying my friends full rb duall so I dont need mine.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,539
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From: Tampa, FL
Kliftin...what year is your FC? If it is 89+ then you don't have to worry about the ports opening like I do. If mine was 89+ i would already have the exhaust done.
Mazdatrix...so is it the header that actuates the 6 ports? Please let me know ASAP so I can order it, thanks.
Mazdatrix...so is it the header that actuates the 6 ports? Please let me know ASAP so I can order it, thanks.
Passenger
Posts: n/a
Multiple questions to answer here ---
Yes, headers are opening the ports. It is using more of the "pulse force" (I just made that term up now) of the exhaust port to open the 6-ports rather than actual "back pressure".
In testing/developing this system, we found better bottom end torque (up to about 3500 rpm) with the 6-ports functional. This is in answer to the other thread going on this forum about "true dual" on the second gens, where someone said they had better bottom end with the ports wired open.
We "built" the system to use the HKS mufflers. They were quieter than the ones Racing Beat had at that time. (We STILL do not know the tone of the newest RB's. I think as of YESTERDAY, we FINALLY have A set we can try - meaning not sold aleady, after waiting MONTHS for them to catch up - but have not had time/car to try it).
You can use about ANY cat-back you want, it's just that the only one that "bolts-up" to our system is HKS. The Greddy/RB/Walker/etc mufflers/"Y"-pipe configuration is different than HKS.
Do remember, even with the HKS, the system is NOT "quiet". It is very hard to reasonably describe a sound "level/tone" using words. We have had customers complain because it was "not loud enough", and others becuase it was "too loud". On my car, I DO NOT go by cops at anything other than "light throttle cruise". As a favor to my home area, I just go very easy.
Also please remember, this is "FOR RACING ONLY - NEVER TO BE USED ON PUBLIC ROADS" - not even close to emissions legal, and you are ON YOUR OWN if a cop pulls you over for sound !!!
ANY straight pipes, big mufflers, etc will be a lot louder than with the HKS mufflers.
Also answering that other "thread" -- we do NOT quote HP numbers for any of the exhausts. Chassis dynos very A BUNCH on the numbers we hear. We ran a bone stock '86 (with very good OEM cats) on a local chassis dyno. Then we brought the same car back the next day with our dual system - no other changes. That dyno probably read low, but it did not matter! because we wanted percent increase. I think the actual numbers were something like 95hp stock, and 124? with the exhaust. -- it worked out to a 28 PERCENT increase ON AN '86. I doubt it would be quite than much on '89-91's.
Btw, SCCA E/Production, "street" ported, 86-91's, "open" race exhaust, OEM intake manifolding and throttle body, aftermarket injection control, etc are getting a MAX (last I heard) of about 220 HP AT THE FLYWHEEL !! This is from REAL engine dynos, from real road racers. So when we hear 240+ at the wheels, from "street" non-turbos, on chassis dynos, we have to sort of question the numbers???
Yes, headers are opening the ports. It is using more of the "pulse force" (I just made that term up now) of the exhaust port to open the 6-ports rather than actual "back pressure".
In testing/developing this system, we found better bottom end torque (up to about 3500 rpm) with the 6-ports functional. This is in answer to the other thread going on this forum about "true dual" on the second gens, where someone said they had better bottom end with the ports wired open.
We "built" the system to use the HKS mufflers. They were quieter than the ones Racing Beat had at that time. (We STILL do not know the tone of the newest RB's. I think as of YESTERDAY, we FINALLY have A set we can try - meaning not sold aleady, after waiting MONTHS for them to catch up - but have not had time/car to try it).
You can use about ANY cat-back you want, it's just that the only one that "bolts-up" to our system is HKS. The Greddy/RB/Walker/etc mufflers/"Y"-pipe configuration is different than HKS.
Do remember, even with the HKS, the system is NOT "quiet". It is very hard to reasonably describe a sound "level/tone" using words. We have had customers complain because it was "not loud enough", and others becuase it was "too loud". On my car, I DO NOT go by cops at anything other than "light throttle cruise". As a favor to my home area, I just go very easy.
Also please remember, this is "FOR RACING ONLY - NEVER TO BE USED ON PUBLIC ROADS" - not even close to emissions legal, and you are ON YOUR OWN if a cop pulls you over for sound !!!
ANY straight pipes, big mufflers, etc will be a lot louder than with the HKS mufflers.
Also answering that other "thread" -- we do NOT quote HP numbers for any of the exhausts. Chassis dynos very A BUNCH on the numbers we hear. We ran a bone stock '86 (with very good OEM cats) on a local chassis dyno. Then we brought the same car back the next day with our dual system - no other changes. That dyno probably read low, but it did not matter! because we wanted percent increase. I think the actual numbers were something like 95hp stock, and 124? with the exhaust. -- it worked out to a 28 PERCENT increase ON AN '86. I doubt it would be quite than much on '89-91's.
Btw, SCCA E/Production, "street" ported, 86-91's, "open" race exhaust, OEM intake manifolding and throttle body, aftermarket injection control, etc are getting a MAX (last I heard) of about 220 HP AT THE FLYWHEEL !! This is from REAL engine dynos, from real road racers. So when we hear 240+ at the wheels, from "street" non-turbos, on chassis dynos, we have to sort of question the numbers???
Thread Starter
...
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,539
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From: Tampa, FL
So with the $200 modified header I won't need the presilencers unless I am concerned with sound, correct? %th & 6th ports will actuate correctly with out the presilencers, just using the header? If that is the case I am ordering it tomorrow, just really want to make sure before I do order it. Oh ya, how long is the wait for that header right now? Thanks alot.
Also, the only gasket I would need when not using the presilencers would be the engine to header gasket, $11 & some change, right?
Also, the only gasket I would need when not using the presilencers would be the engine to header gasket, $11 & some change, right?
Last edited by Ryde _Or_Die; Nov 1, 2001 at 06:16 PM.
