May be a little confused...5/6 port Queston
06-29-04, 11:34 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: MuryLand
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
May be a little confused...5/6 port Queston
I tried to search, and only confused myself, maybe im reading into this too much.
I have an opertunity to buy an 89 GXL. He said it has headers to straight pipe to exhaust. He stated the air pump and stuff was gone. So how are the 5/6 ports actuated then without the air pump. I thought s5's need the air pump to do this.
Isnt this killing performance of the vehicle, or is it bettering.
Thanks,
WICKED
I have an opertunity to buy an 89 GXL. He said it has headers to straight pipe to exhaust. He stated the air pump and stuff was gone. So how are the 5/6 ports actuated then without the air pump. I thought s5's need the air pump to do this.
Isnt this killing performance of the vehicle, or is it bettering.
Thanks,
WICKED
06-30-04, 07:55 AM
#4
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: MuryLand
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Im positive he doesnt have them "TIED" open. I asked him how his actuators worked, and he said...Whats that? I know, I know walk away right there!
The guys 30 years old, and he just put a new engine in it in January, he has, and showed me, and will give to me, all the paper work for the car. Mazda put it in for him. The car is spotless. inside/out. Now rust and bodys perfect. He has recently got a Fresh new (bad part) Ricey paint job.
Bad part is NO emissions.
Again, Is this OK how he has it set up? Will it last? How bad is performance being killed? How bad is engine suffering? Should i snag it, and put the pump back on?
any help with this is appreciated. I dont want to get Foked on this deal.
The guys 30 years old, and he just put a new engine in it in January, he has, and showed me, and will give to me, all the paper work for the car. Mazda put it in for him. The car is spotless. inside/out. Now rust and bodys perfect. He has recently got a Fresh new (bad part) Ricey paint job.
Bad part is NO emissions.
Again, Is this OK how he has it set up? Will it last? How bad is performance being killed? How bad is engine suffering? Should i snag it, and put the pump back on?
any help with this is appreciated. I dont want to get Foked on this deal.
06-30-04, 08:13 AM
#5
Seduced by the DARK SIDE
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Orange Park FL (near Jax)
Posts: 7,323
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
It's all about the price.
He has reduced the power, but has not hurt anything.
It may be a good deal at about the KBB.com private party price for fair to good condition.
Then you get the fun of restoring the lost power.
He has reduced the power, but has not hurt anything.
It may be a good deal at about the KBB.com private party price for fair to good condition.
Then you get the fun of restoring the lost power.
06-30-04, 08:13 AM
#6
Like Ghandi with a gun
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Rapid City, SD
Posts: 4,584
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
tell him its broke and get a better deal :P
I doubt he tied them open if he doesn't know if they are working. If they are tied open they are FAR from working.
Its a $20 work around to build a custom system to activate the aux ports and VDI solenoid. I've built a custom system, as did silverrotor (I think he's not using it any longer though.)
If the actuators are stuck closed (nothing activating them) its speculated at about a 20hp loss on the high revs.
If the actuators are stuck open (tied, wired) its speculated about a 20hp loss on the low revs (where our cars NEED all they can get, its suffering).
Wiring the ports open does not make any more hp on the high end then having a working system. Wiring them open is something a mis-informed modification that is decietful because people think it will allow more air all the time, and hence more hp all the time. This is incorrect because when the engine is low revs on load, intake velocity has a substantial effect on horsepower.
If the ports are wired open, it drops the intake velocity substanstialy and, hence a loss of torque on the low end.
When the engine is on load in high revs, intake velocity is less important because of the mass of air being pulled into the engine (not to mention the wonderful natural supercharging effect of n/a rotary engines after 5kish.)
Wired open = same high end, suck low end.
Stuck closed = same low end, suck high end.
WORKING = same low end, same high end. BEST SITUATION.
There is some confusion on the points at which it is more beneficial to have the extra porting opening, as compared to the extra intake velocity. I dealy if you could plant XY coordinates to a power graph (actually... dynoing this would show the exact best moment) where the lines cross would be the ultimate moment to cross from the higher intake velocity to the higher surface area intake. Stock is at 3800ish rpm on load.
As for the VDI, this could again be done on an xy coord to plot at which the cross would be the ultimate moment to cross from the longer intake runner (high intake velocity) to the pressure wave and shorter intake runner. Stock is at 5800ish rpm on load.
I doubt he tied them open if he doesn't know if they are working. If they are tied open they are FAR from working.
Its a $20 work around to build a custom system to activate the aux ports and VDI solenoid. I've built a custom system, as did silverrotor (I think he's not using it any longer though.)
If the actuators are stuck closed (nothing activating them) its speculated at about a 20hp loss on the high revs.
If the actuators are stuck open (tied, wired) its speculated about a 20hp loss on the low revs (where our cars NEED all they can get, its suffering).
Wiring the ports open does not make any more hp on the high end then having a working system. Wiring them open is something a mis-informed modification that is decietful because people think it will allow more air all the time, and hence more hp all the time. This is incorrect because when the engine is low revs on load, intake velocity has a substantial effect on horsepower.
If the ports are wired open, it drops the intake velocity substanstialy and, hence a loss of torque on the low end.
When the engine is on load in high revs, intake velocity is less important because of the mass of air being pulled into the engine (not to mention the wonderful natural supercharging effect of n/a rotary engines after 5kish.)
Wired open = same high end, suck low end.
Stuck closed = same low end, suck high end.
WORKING = same low end, same high end. BEST SITUATION.
There is some confusion on the points at which it is more beneficial to have the extra porting opening, as compared to the extra intake velocity. I dealy if you could plant XY coordinates to a power graph (actually... dynoing this would show the exact best moment) where the lines cross would be the ultimate moment to cross from the higher intake velocity to the higher surface area intake. Stock is at 3800ish rpm on load.
As for the VDI, this could again be done on an xy coord to plot at which the cross would be the ultimate moment to cross from the longer intake runner (high intake velocity) to the pressure wave and shorter intake runner. Stock is at 5800ish rpm on load.
06-30-04, 12:30 PM
#7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: MuryLand
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kenteth,
Thanks for the great info. what do you think about this deal? walk, or keep talking. He says he still has the air pump. I have a 91 vert in XLnt condition (83000 original, older lady owned). I love the vert, but i really want a coupe bad. this guy is known in my area for taking care of his stuff. He has offerd to trade me titles for Title. Is it an easy re install? what all will have to be done for this?
help me out here.
WICKED
Thanks for the great info. what do you think about this deal? walk, or keep talking. He says he still has the air pump. I have a 91 vert in XLnt condition (83000 original, older lady owned). I love the vert, but i really want a coupe bad. this guy is known in my area for taking care of his stuff. He has offerd to trade me titles for Title. Is it an easy re install? what all will have to be done for this?
help me out here.
WICKED
Trending Topics
06-30-04, 12:41 PM
#8
Seduced by the DARK SIDE
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Orange Park FL (near Jax)
Posts: 7,323
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
It sounds like a good deal, but if condition is equal the vert is worth more.
Go to KBB.com Print out the private party values of each car & haggle the difference.
Go to KBB.com Print out the private party values of each car & haggle the difference.
06-30-04, 02:16 PM
#10
Like Ghandi with a gun
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Rapid City, SD
Posts: 4,584
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
meh, if you live in cali, reinstall the pump.
if you live where they don't care that you're killing ducks, frogs, racoons, and other various breathing animals... rework the aux port systems.
if you live where they don't care that you're killing ducks, frogs, racoons, and other various breathing animals... rework the aux port systems.
06-30-04, 02:28 PM
#11
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: MuryLand
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I dont live in Cali, but i do have emissions. Im not worried about that part. I'd like to know if the performance of the car, ie HP is going to be effected. If it is (losing), im going to put the pump back on, and get a racing beat system, If not i wont worry about it. Is this a Novice job?
06-30-04, 02:29 PM
#12
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: MuryLand
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I dont live in Cali, but i do have emissions. Im not worried about that part. I'd like to know if the performance of the car, ie HP is going to be effected. If it is (losing), im going to put the pump back on, and get a racing beat system, If not i wont worry about it. Is this a Novice job?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post