aceofspades49c

i have a 88 gxl and i want to lower the back end and maybe the front of the car but dont want to buy coilovers, so my question is can i just cut like a coil off of the springs to lower it a bit or is there some thing else i can do , because i have a huge gap from the tire and the fender, it looks stupid thank s
steve

mazda_wes

iTrader: (6)

don't chop the coils. you will very soon have problems with the struts if you do that. the ride would also be pretty crappy. just do yourself a favor and get a set of coil overs.

Soma

Yeah, it might look better but it's going to handle like ****.
Kinda defeats the purpose of driving an FC.

jimrx7

Don't be so impatient to mod your car man. take your time save alittle money and get the right parts at your own pace. you will much more satisfied with a car that the right mods the first time you do them.

Street_Knight

ACTUALLY...cutting coils with a saw increas's the spring rate giving you better handling and doesn't affect your struts unless you cut like half the spring off. Just don't try to heat them or cut them with a torch, then you would do damage by defeating the purpose of spring steel. I would rather get coil over's though. Message me if you have any questions

Street_Knight

I'm not trying to be an *** or blam anybody but this is wrong. cutting coils is fine in moderation. and it will actually handle better

magus2222

iTrader: (22)

uh....................it handles "better" because you lower the center of gravity.......dude.........thats a horrible suggestion.
im having to replace the whole front suspension on my new car because the dumbass cut the springs. it destroys the shock, makes the front end WAY to stiff, in bad way.
and besides, springs are designed to handle a certain amount of force per coil, or lb rate. you lob off 2 coils, and it changes the dynamics of the spring and can ruin the suspension SO quick.
dont give that kind of suggestion.

peace

jimrx7

I have had ground control coilovers since 2001 and it handles fantastic, then when i saved some more cash i added front and rear tokico 5 ways. 6 months later I added cusco front and rear strut bars and cusco lower arm bar. looking back I would not have done it any other way. about the cutting of your springs would you cause problems with your camber and alignment?.

Street_Knight

That is true about lowering the center of gravity but cutting the coils...I forgot to mention intelligently, increases the spring rate giving you a stiffer ride. As long as you find material on how to do this properly and you're not drunk it's a great way to not only lower your car a little but you can also learn about spring rate and how it's applied.....so yeah, suggestion gave.

Street_Knight

You can find material on how to do this properly but as with cutting the coils...MODERATELY....if you do it right your camber, caster and alignment will be fine. But with you buying coil overs and strut bars and all that is a way better way to do it. Cutting your coils the right way can be a fun way to lower your car until you get the money for real parts.

magus2222

iTrader: (22)

wrong again. whenever you change the stock height, change any form of the oem suspension, you WILL 100% of the time **** up the alignment, i guarentee it. no question. you change the ride height, you will **** up toe, caster and camber. in the front you can have the oem alignment points messed with and have all set to 0 again. in the rear, you WILL **** up camber, and theres really NO way to change it back to 0. you can get the camber adjuster, but it wont go back to 0.
no, cutting springs is a bad idea 100% of the time, stop telling people its ok. thats what hondaboys do because they dont know right from wrong, cause they all think the same.

peace

mazda_wes

iTrader: (6)

hmmm. cutting springs changes the spring rating. wow. i work with metal and i always thought that the spring rating was based on the stiffness and rigidity of the coil (quality of the steel has some factor). i learn something new every day. what were all of those classes for? i could have just come on here and had someone tell me without getting a certificate and without my company having to pay for it.

as you can see, i was being a little sarcastic. spring rating does not change if you cut the springs since the rating is based on how much weight it takes to compress the spring and divided by the height of the spring for a nice round number that we can use to apply to suspension. spring ratings change when the metal changes and when the shape of the coils change. if there are tighter coils, the spring rating will get firmer. if there are looser coils, the spring rating will get lower.

the reason why people think their suspension is firmer is because of the fact that the struts are put in a stress point that they aren't designed to handle, which makes them tighter and also makes them bottom out in the chamber more easily. you may think that this is a better ride, but it is hell on the suspension.

Black91n/a

Spring rate DOES change when you cut coils. Think of it this way, the spring is now shorter, so a given deflection is now a larger percentage deflection, taking more force. That same deflection on a stock length spring means that each coil deflects less, so the force is less. A SMALL cut isn't the end of the world, but I still wouldn't advise it (especially as it'll change how the spring seats, possibly damaging the mounts). The spring rate isn't going to go up enough compared to the length you cut off to keep you from being on the bump stops more than before, making the car ride badly.

Lowering the car, yes you will change the alignment somewhat, but again, it's not the end of the world if the lowering is small, it'll still be within acceptable specs. That said, whenever you do something to your suspension that could change the alignment, be sure to get it re-aligned. Toe changes with ride height and it can kill tires really, really fast. $50, $100 or whatever for an alignment's nothing compared to $500+ for all new tires.

totallimmortal

I know it's not good to dobut i took off a little ovre 1/2 a coil on each front spring, then had the car re allinged and it does handle better, for some reason my car sat high in the front and i wanted it even. anyway i would't cut the back to much camber and you'll lose tracion

FelixIsGod29X

iTrader: (50)

To the OP why must you have to get coilovers to lower it? You talk about wanting to just lower your car but down want to spend the amount on coilovers.........not one person gave input about just lowering springs. Why not just find some springs that lower it roughly 1.5" and your good to go. Easy at that.

totallimmortal

I'd be worried about allighnment issues with a 1.5 inch drop all around and no other mods

FelixIsGod29X

iTrader: (50)

^^Interesting, i would think with just some springs it wouldnt throw off the alignment. Its just lowering it, not changing the actual angle of the wheels and what not. But what do i know, im no suspension expert. Anyone else have input on this? Would just lowering springs really throw off the alignment and such at all?

7fold

anytime you change the spring (no matter how small) or the shock/strut, the car must be re-allined... end of story

TurboMazdaSpeed

just buy lowering springs....

FelixIsGod29X

iTrader: (50)

Ah thank you, and sorry for slighty stealin the tread.

Black91n/a

In the rear, basically anything over 1" drop throws the camber off enough that you'll be needing to get an adjustable subframe link (camber rod) to take some of it out. This isn't to say that a drop of less than 1" doesn't need to be re-aligned, as the toe still changes and could need fixing.

mazda_wes

iTrader: (6)

i am not going into this in great detail. i have had this conversation with so many people that it is getting old. like i said before, the spring rating is an average. it starts with P. this represents the pounds that it takes to compress the spring. the next variable is H. this represents the height of the spring total. then, it ends with R. this is the spring rating. the formula is P divided by H = R that makes the rating how many pounds the spring needs to be compressed one inch. now, if you take a half of an inch off of the spring, you are going to make the dividing number and the pounds of compression drop. that means that they will stay proportional to each other. if you really want to get into specifics, the spring is more tightly wound at either end, so you are taking off tighter and closely wound coils. that would mean that you are actually going to take off the firmest points of the springs (unless you found a way to take metal out of the middle of the spring and keep it together still). so the spring rating would actually get lower, which means softer springs.

Black91n/a

Yes the stiffness of the material is a constant, but the spring rate is based on a lot more than just that (such as diameter of the coils, diameter of the wire, number of coils, material, length, etc).

Think of it this way, take one spring, say it takes 100lb to compress it one inch, now take another one and stack it on top of the first one and put the same 100lbs on it, now there's going to be twice as much deflection since each spring is seeing the 100lb load, so each is deflecting 1". The per coil deflection is the same, but since there's more coils it deflects more in total. Follow me? Now, the same thing applies in reverse if we have one long spring and we cut it in half, because the proportional deflection (ie deflection/length) has changed, so the rate has changed.

I've studied spring design as part of my ME degree, you're wrong.

mazda_wes

iTrader: (6)

alright, whatever. i don't know anything at all about fabrication. even though i do quality control on fabrication. i also know nothing about material, even though i do PMI. finally, i have no common sense to tell me that modifying a suspension part when you can get a complete replacement for less than a weeks worth of pay is a bad idea. i am not even going to say anything else on this. i am tired of having this conversation with people. i hear some of the stupidest **** here some times. do what you want with your car. i will do it right.

totallimmortal

Who cares who's right or wrong? I doubt many people here have the knowledge or equipment to measure the rate of a cut stock spring, has anyone here actually considered the fact that these springs are old??? My springs don't sit as high as they did in 86. It's not a good idea to cut your springs, if like me you've got extras go for it, if you like it screw these people keep it it's your car, if not change it back. There seem to be very few people around who understand suspension, so since i'm guessing you don't i'd suggest saving up for some lowering springs and after installing them have an allignment done, (helps to know someone cause getting everything right can take some time) my car was on the machine for like 6 hours, these guys set the suspension up for race cars on the same machine and ensured me they could get everything right no matter what i did. Anyway, Yes you can just cut of a coil but it's not recommended, I especially discourage it in the rear