PerkyStina

Okay, I've been researching this problem for a while now, and it seems to be worse in cold weather, so I'm hoping we can find a solution today since it's a semi-warm and clear day so I can fix the problem before winter.

I have an 87 Non-turbo. When I first start her up, the engine vibrates the entire car, and then raises the RPMS to about 2K and sits there until completely warmed up. This happens about 90% of the time. It's worse in cold weather.

Most of the time when it starts up like that, the buzzer and light for "add coolant" come on. I pop the hood and pour a bunch of coolant in the foremost coolant fill area, right by the coolant level sensor. This of course turns off the buzzer and light. We've done the coolant seal test multiple times now, and NO bubbles! But it's like everytime I go outside in the morning and turn the car on, I have to add a good amount of coolant. Where is the coolant going??

We replaced the PD this past week, and since we had most of the hoses exposed, we replaced the coolant hoses, and fuel hoses (that we could see) hoping it would solve the problem. We did replace the t-stat with a Stant... but this doesn't make sense to me to be the cause of the issue since it's before warming up and it's fine after completely warming up.

Many times on start-up, it's dumping ALOT of white smoke out the tail pipe, and it's rich with fuel, but has a much sweeter smell.
Our FB burns rich, but doesn't have a sweet *gulp* antifreeze-ish smell.

The car runs very rough until warmed up, as well. I figure this is just all of the old parts still cold not well lubricated and heated yet... but I'm not positive anymore.

So my questions are...

Where is the coolant going?

Why is the car ok after completely warming up to driving temperature?

Why does it dump alot of smoke out the tailpipe on startup?

What's wrong with a Stant t-stat?

Why does the car run so rough before warming up 100%?

Thanks guys! I have never read this question being asked before, so I'm hoping someone will still be able to help me out.

EDIT: Going to flush and bleed the coolant system today to see if it needs to be "burped" again.

Stay tuned. Please post any suggestions if you can think of something else that may be the cause of the problem.

TehMonkay

iTrader: (-1)

Mine does the rough idle thing, I think my fuel filter is partially clogged, i'm changing it again soon. Maybe your tensions bolts are loose? Is it possible some part of the TB that has a coolant line could be leaking coolant in?

PerkyStina

Thanks. We're gonna run those possibilities as well. Going to get the OEM T-stat Tuesday. The Dealer didn't have one in stock.

Houstonderk

iTrader: (3)

Well all of them do the high rev thing to warm up, because they don't like cold at all. If you start it in gear it usually bypasses it, but it needs to warm up which makes it run super rich. Maybe some mounts are going out if its really bouncy. Also you need to find the leak its somewhere, if it doesn't smoke when driving.

PerkyStina

No, it doesn't smoke when driving, so we'll keep searching for the leak. It doesn't do the correct "high rev" thing anymore (at 3k RPM). It quit doing that a long time ago, and now it just sputters and bounces RPMS with only like 300 RPM interval differences. For a little while, it will sit steadily at 2K RPMs, but it doesn't consistently stay at 2K every time it starts up, and doesn't stay at any specific RPMs for the entire time it's warming up.

It sounds like it's got some serious asthma.

Houstonderk

iTrader: (3)

TPS set up right? sounds like its searching because of something not sending the right info.

PerkyStina

it only has funky rev issues when it's "low on coolant." I'll check the TPS setup.

why are the Stant T-stats not acceptable for 86-88 engines?

TII-aholic

the coolant thing sounds like the coolant seals are going out.....all the smoke at start up could be water build up from the car sitting. then when things warm up the water evarorates before getting to the muffler. sorry to be the bearer of bad news christina

PerkyStina

Better not be a blown coolant seal...


I'll just keep topping it off until it doesn't work anymore if that's the case!! I don't understand why it would be a bad coolant seal, when I don't get ANY bubbles while I test it for a bad coolant!

djmtsu

iTrader: (3)

That is exactly what Paul's (Fero313) car was/is doing!!! (the skinny kid with me at Deals Gap).

Sometimes, it if sat for a pretty long while it would only run on one rotor until the compression pulse would spit the coolant out of the rotor housing and finally allow combustion. Its actually fun to watch, and hear!!

Good luck girl!!

PerkyStina

um... dumb question, but how would the coolant get in the housing??

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

once you have rebuilt a busted rotary engine you will see how the coolant gets in.

let the car sit overnight then in the morning pull the EGI fuse and crank the engine for 5 seconds, pull the plugs and inspect them, any sign of water/antifreeze on the plugs means it's time for a rebuild..

djmtsu

iTrader: (3)

What he said!!

Or you can try the Block Seal trick on Landers' website. It works for Paul, has to do it again every so often though!!!

PerkyStina

Ok... so I found one leak, and it explains where some coolant is being lost to, but doesn't explain why there's coolant in the exhaust.

I was driving home tonight, and lots of steam was coming out from under the hood. Temp was steady at only 1/4 way as always. Got it home, and popped the hood. Peeked around with a bright flashlight, and found a puddle of coolant in the dust pan under the radiator. Looked around at the radiator... and finally found a constant drip just below where the lower radiator hose attaches to the radiator. Can't tell if it's directly from the hose or part of the radiator. There is a wet streak running down the elbow of the lower hose, and it's all wet around the clamp in the same area.

When I first started her up before leaving work, I topped her off at both the upper fill area as well as by the radiator. The car started doing the rev-bounce thing again while idling (I was filling up while it was running) and bubbles started coming from the t-stat housing on the side furthest away from the upper radiator hose. It would bubble a bunch every time it would rev. Grrr. If I didn't have a blown coolant seal before, then perhaps I do now. Gonna go try the spark plug trick when she cools off. I like the skin on my hands.

Let me know what you think. I'm about ready to just get another FC... this one is about to hit 200K, and I can't justify putting all my new suspension mods and toys on there and taking her to DGRR07. With SO much that has to be done to "restore" this car, it doesn't make sense at all.

She wasn't taken good care of before me... so I'm quite aggravated.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

you really gotta let the engine be stone cold like in the morning to check the plugs for an internal leak, more often than not the engine seals up when warm which will not register and coolant in the engine.

PerkyStina

ok. I'll get up early to do it, or I'll just do it when I get home and drive the FB tomorrow. Just when I thought I got my FC back on the road again!