Just finished 6 port turbo project, car has no power
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,785
Likes: 30
From: And the horse he rode in on...
Reset
I think ted means to remove the + battery cable for a period of time to reset the ECU.
BTW, as you are encouraging everyone and giving tips-does it work yet??????
BTW, as you are encouraging everyone and giving tips-does it work yet??????
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,841
Likes: 2
From: Northern VA
Did some troubleshooting:
*Fixed exhaust leaks, car runs noticeably better, much more low end torque-still no boost
*Confirmed spark in leading and trailing plugs.
*Changed AFM, MAP to known working NA units and test drove, no change.
*Pulled CEL codes (light doesn't work) 12 and 18 for the TPS full/narrow range. I reset the ECU, adjusted to 1.01VDC at no throttle and test drove again to confirm.
*Unplugged TPS, car drives much better; no hesitations (as always), still no boost but much better acceleration and response. Reads 1.01VDC at idle with the adjustment screw and spring FULLY compressed
, 4.67 WOT (car was warm). Reads 4.67VDC at anything over ~20% throttle, quick -- reading off idle, OL reading from resistance check. Had no problems with TPS prior to 3 month storage. Still no starting and idling problems.
Bad TPS? Unlikely that this is the culprit. Any input?
Good point, though a smart-*** way of getting it across
Stay tuned.
*Fixed exhaust leaks, car runs noticeably better, much more low end torque-still no boost
*Confirmed spark in leading and trailing plugs.
*Changed AFM, MAP to known working NA units and test drove, no change.
*Pulled CEL codes (light doesn't work) 12 and 18 for the TPS full/narrow range. I reset the ECU, adjusted to 1.01VDC at no throttle and test drove again to confirm.
*Unplugged TPS, car drives much better; no hesitations (as always), still no boost but much better acceleration and response. Reads 1.01VDC at idle with the adjustment screw and spring FULLY compressed
, 4.67 WOT (car was warm). Reads 4.67VDC at anything over ~20% throttle, quick -- reading off idle, OL reading from resistance check. Had no problems with TPS prior to 3 month storage. Still no starting and idling problems.Bad TPS? Unlikely that this is the culprit. Any input?
Stay tuned.
I have posted awhile back in reference to a 6-port turbo.My set-up was different and for me was VERY simple.As follows----------this motor was a 6-port,bridge-port turbo,550cc primaries,750cc secondaries,Rteck 1.7 ver,running 10PSI of boost.Alot of torque and mid power.I'ved recently removed this motor,because i'm FINALLY done with my S4 turbo block.Everything was used,turbo intakes on the 6-port set-up[ports has to be matched] wire harness,etc.This 6-port bridge-port motor is now going into my GSL-SE with dellorto DHLA,full Racing Beat dual exhaust and MSd box's.Quick note-----the turbo flywheel was used,nothing changed.Any questions,i'll be happy to help.
Did some troubleshooting:
*Fixed exhaust leaks, car runs noticeably better, much more low end torque-still no boost
*Confirmed spark in leading and trailing plugs.
*Changed AFM, MAP to known working NA units and test drove, no change.
*Pulled CEL codes (light doesn't work) 12 and 18 for the TPS full/narrow range. I reset the ECU, adjusted to 1.01VDC at no throttle and test drove again to confirm.
*Unplugged TPS, car drives much better; no hesitations (as always), still no boost but much better acceleration and response. Reads 1.01VDC at idle with the adjustment screw and spring FULLY compressed
, 4.67 WOT (car was warm). Reads 4.67VDC at anything over ~20% throttle, quick -- reading off idle, OL reading from resistance check. Had no problems with TPS prior to 3 month storage. Still no starting and idling problems.
Bad TPS? Unlikely that this is the culprit. Any input?
Good point, though a smart-*** way of getting it across
Stay tuned.
*Fixed exhaust leaks, car runs noticeably better, much more low end torque-still no boost
*Confirmed spark in leading and trailing plugs.
*Changed AFM, MAP to known working NA units and test drove, no change.
*Pulled CEL codes (light doesn't work) 12 and 18 for the TPS full/narrow range. I reset the ECU, adjusted to 1.01VDC at no throttle and test drove again to confirm.
*Unplugged TPS, car drives much better; no hesitations (as always), still no boost but much better acceleration and response. Reads 1.01VDC at idle with the adjustment screw and spring FULLY compressed
, 4.67 WOT (car was warm). Reads 4.67VDC at anything over ~20% throttle, quick -- reading off idle, OL reading from resistance check. Had no problems with TPS prior to 3 month storage. Still no starting and idling problems.Bad TPS? Unlikely that this is the culprit. Any input?
Good point, though a smart-*** way of getting it across
Stay tuned.Also incase you didnt know, you cannot drive your car with n/a map and afm, youll cause a whole new set of issues.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,841
Likes: 2
From: Northern VA
I figured that much. The TPS code is gone now. I've removed the piping and inspected the turbo, it spins freely and has minimal shaft play. What makes me wonder is the fact that you can hear the whine from the turbo (loud) become faster as engine speed increases...yet still no boost.
I checked the ECU chips for obvious damage today, none found. The car threw the CAS (Ne) code. Resistance check turned out good. I purchased a timing light and lined up the marks on the sensor, it was off by a little. Will check timing in like 20 minutes.
The reason I tried the sensors was because Aaron Cake used them in his car in phase 1 of his project. I understand their inability to read boost pressure, it probably wasn't a good idea but confirmed the condition of the TII sensors.
Good news: I'm taking a 3 week break from school and getting a garage!
I checked the ECU chips for obvious damage today, none found. The car threw the CAS (Ne) code. Resistance check turned out good. I purchased a timing light and lined up the marks on the sensor, it was off by a little. Will check timing in like 20 minutes.
The reason I tried the sensors was because Aaron Cake used them in his car in phase 1 of his project. I understand their inability to read boost pressure, it probably wasn't a good idea but confirmed the condition of the TII sensors.
Good news: I'm taking a 3 week break from school and getting a garage!
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,841
Likes: 2
From: Northern VA
Yup TII pressure sensor. I was kind of suspect of it because the last two numbers are rubber off so it reads N3XX. But theres no CEL for it so it seems to be good.
Pics of your turbo will help loads.
For starters
No boost means your turbo is not spooling enough to boost. This leads me to ask a stupid question but one that needs to be asked.
Do you have a turbo actuator?
I read you ported the wastegate, in doing so did you forget to re-connect the flapper.
If so is it connected to the internal wastegate flapper?
Is your wastegate actuator stuck open possibly?
I doubt you could have over ported it, but my biggest suspition is that you have an issue with the turbin side of your turbo most likely the internal wastegate.
Do you have a boost solenoid?
Have you checked compression with an actual compression tester or just by the sound or by plugging the holes with your finger? You need to do an actual compression test if you have not.
Check your throttle body and throttle cable to make sure they are actually opening completely and or connected correctly.
Good luck with the project and keep on updating!
For starters
No boost means your turbo is not spooling enough to boost. This leads me to ask a stupid question but one that needs to be asked.
Do you have a turbo actuator?
I read you ported the wastegate, in doing so did you forget to re-connect the flapper.
If so is it connected to the internal wastegate flapper?
Is your wastegate actuator stuck open possibly?
I doubt you could have over ported it, but my biggest suspition is that you have an issue with the turbin side of your turbo most likely the internal wastegate.
Do you have a boost solenoid?
Have you checked compression with an actual compression tester or just by the sound or by plugging the holes with your finger? You need to do an actual compression test if you have not.
Check your throttle body and throttle cable to make sure they are actually opening completely and or connected correctly.
Good luck with the project and keep on updating!
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,841
Likes: 2
From: Northern VA
*Not sure what you mean by turbo actuator.
*The wastegate flapper is connected and fully operational, I tested it several times when the turbo was out.
*I've checked it and it is closed, upon further searching I have read that even with the wastegate fully open I should still be getting ~3psi.
*The porting was done by the previous owner of the turbo. Looks like he ported it and welded a quarter sized coin on the flapper that looked like it sealed well.
*Don't have the boost solenoid as the twin scroll actuator and all related components have been removed.
*The compression test I will probably do next. I have just done the finger test so far.
*The TB check is a good idea, I will check that soon.
Thanks for the input, I've done some troubleshooting today.
*hooked up the NA intake to the NA AFM bypassing the IC and compressor and ran the car. Test showed lots of boost pressure (more than a hairdryer) out of the compressor outlet, though not enough to open wastegate. Compressor wheel was spinning normally at idle. Hmm...
*set base ignition timing. It is dead on. Note: With the timing light probe connected to the L2 wire I could see the yellow mark every 2-5 revolutions, not consistent. Normal?
*performed resistance check on fuel pump resistor relay. Relay is good.
The compressor creating boost pressure leads me to believe that there is a small leak bleeding all the boost pressure somewhere. Broken fins on IC maybe...time for more troubleshooting.
*The wastegate flapper is connected and fully operational, I tested it several times when the turbo was out.
*I've checked it and it is closed, upon further searching I have read that even with the wastegate fully open I should still be getting ~3psi.
*The porting was done by the previous owner of the turbo. Looks like he ported it and welded a quarter sized coin on the flapper that looked like it sealed well.
*Don't have the boost solenoid as the twin scroll actuator and all related components have been removed.
*The compression test I will probably do next. I have just done the finger test so far.
*The TB check is a good idea, I will check that soon.
Thanks for the input, I've done some troubleshooting today.
*hooked up the NA intake to the NA AFM bypassing the IC and compressor and ran the car. Test showed lots of boost pressure (more than a hairdryer) out of the compressor outlet, though not enough to open wastegate. Compressor wheel was spinning normally at idle. Hmm...
*set base ignition timing. It is dead on. Note: With the timing light probe connected to the L2 wire I could see the yellow mark every 2-5 revolutions, not consistent. Normal?
*performed resistance check on fuel pump resistor relay. Relay is good.
The compressor creating boost pressure leads me to believe that there is a small leak bleeding all the boost pressure somewhere. Broken fins on IC maybe...time for more troubleshooting.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,841
Likes: 2
From: Northern VA
Did the compression test (w/ check valve in) today:
85psi R
90psi F
When I removed the leading plug for the rear rotor I noticed it was squeaky clean (from when I had cleaned them all prior to initial startup) unlike the front rotor's which was brown-ish. I have confirmed spark in this rotor. No fuel then? Would only the primary injectors firing cause some buildup on the plug? Any other input?
I have pressure tested the intercooler and most of the piping and found no leaks.
85psi R
90psi F
When I removed the leading plug for the rear rotor I noticed it was squeaky clean (from when I had cleaned them all prior to initial startup) unlike the front rotor's which was brown-ish. I have confirmed spark in this rotor. No fuel then? Would only the primary injectors firing cause some buildup on the plug? Any other input?
I have pressure tested the intercooler and most of the piping and found no leaks.
Did you check the spark at the coil or the plug?
Timing could be off which would leave the front plug firing at a time when fuel was present but the rear could be missing. 85psi is pretty low but should fire however since those compression numbers are from a 6 port NA motor they seem very low. I know you dont want to hear that...
I would do some more research into the timing if you want to continue with this engine but I would also keep in mind that you have low compression and a rebuild or replacement engine will be needed in the not so distant future.
Timing could be off which would leave the front plug firing at a time when fuel was present but the rear could be missing. 85psi is pretty low but should fire however since those compression numbers are from a 6 port NA motor they seem very low. I know you dont want to hear that...
I would do some more research into the timing if you want to continue with this engine but I would also keep in mind that you have low compression and a rebuild or replacement engine will be needed in the not so distant future.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,841
Likes: 2
From: Northern VA
Yeah I got spark there. My timing is dead on, checked with an inductive timing light. I didn't actually do the compression test right since the car was warmed up but sat for like 20 minutes while I was inside. I also forgot to block the throttle plate open so there was less air entering the engine. Not like I can do anything about it having low compression anyway, 85 psi is enough to know thats not the MAJOR problem here IMO.
I found the problem today (foreal this time
). When I backprobed the rear rotor's primary or secondary injector pins from the ECU using my ammeter and grounded them (for a second) there was some white smoke, the idle kicked up about 1000RPMs, the sound completely changed and the engine revved up much quicker, lasted a few seconds. Whenever I energize either the idle kicks up. The voltage doesn't fluctuate at all like the front rotor's primary. If I ground the front rotor's secondary (which has no voltage fluctuation over 3800rpm) the idle drops and the car wants to die. Got source voltage at all of them at idle.
Now to find out why they're not engergizing...ECU or wiring problem? Gonna pull the intakes off and test all of them. At the secondary injectors I get 0 ohms of resistance...wtf.
I found the problem today (foreal this time
). When I backprobed the rear rotor's primary or secondary injector pins from the ECU using my ammeter and grounded them (for a second) there was some white smoke, the idle kicked up about 1000RPMs, the sound completely changed and the engine revved up much quicker, lasted a few seconds. Whenever I energize either the idle kicks up. The voltage doesn't fluctuate at all like the front rotor's primary. If I ground the front rotor's secondary (which has no voltage fluctuation over 3800rpm) the idle drops and the car wants to die. Got source voltage at all of them at idle.Now to find out why they're not engergizing...ECU or wiring problem? Gonna pull the intakes off and test all of them. At the secondary injectors I get 0 ohms of resistance...wtf.
Last edited by KhanArtisT; Oct 3, 2008 at 06:24 PM.
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