tweaked

iTrader: (4)

What do you guys think?
My 88 n/a timing was set to factory specs. I just went out and advanced it. I don't know exactly how much since it isn't degreed only has the marks and pointer. it is about 1/8 of an inch counter-clockwise, which I am guessing to be about 3* or 4* more than stock. I made a run and didn't notice any knocking. and it pulled a hell of alot harder. I took it on a very hard 10 minute run to listen for knock but couldn't hear any.
So... should I leavve it or return it so it doesn't die. the motor has 137k on it with all the bolt ons and nonstandard tweaking.

Icemark

any advance on a NA and you should be using 91 octane or higher, this is even more important on the series 5 motor.

I had advanced my 87 sport up about 4 degrees, but was running with H2O injection and 92 octane to help prevent detonation. This mod and a air filter, and light flywheel made the car (being almost 300 lbs lighter) as quick as a stock T2, but it topped out at around 135 instead of the 145 that a T2 can do when running right.

Now I sit back and say why? why? why did I ever sell that car to a kid who didn't know that rotaires used a quart of oil every 1500 miles?

tweaked

iTrader: (4)

acccually I am still running the 86 octane with no ill effects. in fact I noticed that the 3800 hesitation is gone now. I tried everything to get rid of that. this did it.
I should be able to hear it ping if it happens right?

Why did you seel that car? I would never sell my 7 even though is is all wrinkeled in the rear.

hIGGI

iTrader: (7)

how do i advance timing ? (i have apexi S-ITC still in box, should i install it ? :o))))

Node

iTrader: (1)

thats an electrical problem w/ bad grounding, has to do w/ when your secondary fuel injectors kick in
did you know that? if not reply and ill go get a website to help you cure it.

Bambam7

Check this out-
A few days ago advanced the timing on my car as well, the primary reason was to bring my idle up a bit- since it didn't want to do it with any other methods!
Anyways, my car is running pretty rich for some reason, something I will be working on soon, (reason for the low idle) so I am not too worried about detonation. I advanced it about 1/4 inch before the timing pin, approx what would be in degrees? I guess around 5. Anyways, the idle smoothed out, came up a bit to about 750, (still sux because I have a ported engine) but it runs MUCH smoother! There was a minimal power gain, but overall I was very pleased at the manners of the engine now. Much better cold and warm! No hesitation, the engine note is much smoother too- actually sounds like it's working with a lot less effort to produce more power! I wasn't expecting this difference at all!
Recommended to anyone with lotso mods.

tims

I would guess that you have both advanced the timing much more than 5*. I would also never make any changes without using a timing light to verify the changes. to much timing will not kill an N/A engine immediately, but it will eventually contribute to its demise(and detonation is very hard to hear in rotary engines). I would not run more than 24* of timing advance on any stock rotary engine. I have seen many race motors ruined in a matter of minutes from timing advanced to much. usually flattens out the apex seals and then starts to gouge rotor housings. last motor was a 12a PP that lasted 35 minutes before the driver ruined a new set of apex seals and did significant damage to a new set of rotor housings. on a street motor the wear will take time since it is not driven at the redline continuously, but with a high mileage motor the extra timing will only speed up the need to rebuild the motor. be sure to check the timing with a quality timing light and I would not recomend more than 20* advance for a street car with a stock engine. be careful

Gimpdiggity

Node, could you post that website to help with the 3800 hesitation please??


Thanks,
Jeff

BiG WaNkLeR

Sounds like I want to advance my timing just a little too if it could help my hesitation. It has about 125km and runs really good. I have very few mods though. When u guys use an asterick(*), what does it mean?
Degrees? I just want to advance it a few to make a little difference, and I can't afford to blow this engine and need it to last. I think it is insidethe pressure sensor if I'm right but can someone correct me if I 'm wrong

Thanks

supergoat

I advanced my timing and run 87 Octane. Been doing it for months and it has never pinged.

rotorhead1

just a word of advice guys, be VERY VERY VERY careful playing with your timing. i recently installed a reman with a lot of bells and whistles, and set the timing to stock. after about 1500 miles i started advancing the timing and the engine started making tons more power. it probably would have made power well beyond redline, if i were past the breakin period, and had the courage to push it. anyway i ran for 1600 more miles with the timing (just reached final breakin milage), and lost every apex seal on the front rotor and 2 on the rear rotor by running with the advanced timing. detonation is a very dangerous thing, and cost me another reman as well as my time for removing another blown motor and reinstalling a again. i hope someone can learn from my bad experience.

tweaked

iTrader: (4)

node:
I did the gounding thing and everything else it got worse with my exhaust. the advanced timing did the trick

My idle is better too. I have listened very carefully for pinging and can't find any. for a half an hour I had my head next to the plugs changing the speed of the motor to hear any.

I don't think I am running over 5* above stock it is like a 1/8 to less than a 1/4 of an inch in front of the mark.
does anyone know if there is one of those timing degree sticker you can put on the pulley.
or does any one know exact mesurments around the pulley for each degree so I could mark it myself? This way I could set it right be for the threshold of knock on 87 octane fuel and then just to be safe I would runn 91 or higher.
It would make me feeel better if I knew my exact timing

BiG WaNkLeR

How do u advance timing?
Please provide some instructions?
What is pinging?

Just learing about the stuff

Thanks

RestoTII

Big Wankler:

adjusting timing is done so that the spark plugs fire a VERY small fraction of time off of when they normally would. This can change the burning rate of the fuel and make differences in performance, gas mileage, and best of all... blow engines if done wrong. If you want to change it, you first have to make sure it's set to 0 degrees. To do this, use a timing light and point it at the belt, which should have a white (I believe) line on it. If hooked up correctly and timed to zero degrees, the white line shsould always match up with the metal post coming off the block. The timing can now be advanced or retarded. To advance the timing, you would turn the crank angle sensor.... not sure which direction right now. Thing to remember is to NOT GO CRAZY with timing, cause like you've seen in the posts above, you can blow the **** of your internals without them making much noise.
And finally, pinging is the sound made from detonation. Detonation is when the fuel ignites too early (which could happen if timing is too advanced). This does a good bit of damage to the apex seals and can blow the engine in no time if not done right. Just be careful and good luck

Bambam7

If you want to know in cm or inches what distance cooresponds with what amount of timing advance, Here- I just went out and measured the pulley a second ago- it's 120mm across. so the circumerence is 120*3.142, which is 377mm.
Divide that by 360 degrees, and you get 1.047, so essentially, 1mm in front of the pin is one degree of timing advance, and so on.


Also- does anyone know if the pin signifies 0 degrees of timing anyways? It's Mazda's sugested timing point, it could be anything.

Hope this helps

pp13bnos

iTrader: (1)

Even on full race motors (peripheral.bridge) i would never run more than 20* leading and 10* trailing. As far as fuel goes, its going to take alot of timing to get that many apex seals to break all at once. I would think it was a combo of to much timing/bad fuel or something. N/A engines are pretty tuff usually. CJ

tweaked

iTrader: (4)

I think if you line the pin up with the leading timing mark it equals 10*


And on a 377mm pulley has 1* of timing at 1 mm then you are doing math all crazy. that would be 377 total degrees of timing when you can only have 360*
I am not a math wizard or anything. but this doesn't sound right
I think if I have done my math right a 377mm circle would have a .95mm equal to 1* of timing.
does everyone agree?
360*/377mm + .9549071
right? or did I do the wrong formula?

akageals

I think that's what he meant. .95 mm vs 1 mm......he was rounding off. 5/100ths of a mm isn't very much. I'm sure most people could not even measure that small a distance. He was just giving a rounded measurement that will be useful for everyone in helping to set their timing. I will say that i'm not going to screw with this though....Mazda put it there for a reason.....reliability I bet.

Todd

Marco

I always understood that the 3800rpm hesitation had to do with the secondairies and the sixth ports coming online. When done wrong, because of lack of ground on the secondairies (injectors need a lot of current) or something like that ( it even could be that the sith-ports are clogged) the air-fuel ratio will be wrong for sometime. This causes the hesitation. I can imagine that changing the timing will make the hesitation more or less noticable, but I think you're fighting the symptom and not the cause!!

Marco.

BiG WaNkLeR

Little off topic but I like the black on your car. I think I'm going go to black this spring too. Where did u pick up the clear front lenses?
Did u find that the black shoes some minor imperfections?

TristanTII

(but not as much as that one^ *wink*)

I know that many of the performance chips, most notably MD Race advance the timing, and then back it off as RPMs increase. Is this where they get all their power increases from? I'm probably going ot get one of these chips, is this a safe way to get more power (from a TII) or just not as dangerous as doing it yourself?

tesla042

Detonation: The secondary ignition of the air/fuel mixture in the combustion space causing extreme pressures. Detonation is caused by low gasoline octane ratings, high combustion temperatures, improper combustion chamber shape, too-lean mixtures, etc. Detonation produces dangerously high loads on the engine, and if allowed to continue, will lead to engine failure. Detonation, unlike preignition, requires two simultaneous combustion fronts (fuel burning in two or more places in the combustion chamber at once); whereas preignition occurs when the fuel-air mix ignites (with single burning front) before the spark plug fires. Both preignition and detonation produce an audible "knock" or "ping," but detonation does not produce the rapid "wild pinging" noise that is typically associated with preignition. The extreme pressures of detonation can lead to preignition, but even worse the high temperatures of preignition can cause detonation.


also see: http://www.hastingsmfg.com/Service%2...reignition.htm

SpeedRacer

Is there a way to adjust the leading and trailing timing indepenently with the stock ECU and CAS? Or do you mean since 10 degress advance is normal timing, that you should only go 10 more for a total of 20degrees in the leading and 10 degrees trailing?

HAILERS

Turn the cas clockwise to advance the timing. I just measured the marks on a pulley and they are 1.5 cm apart. So if the lead mark is 5*after top dead center and the trail mark is 20*after top dead center, that leaves 15*between the two marks which just happen to measure 1.5cm apart. Or you can measure with a inch scale and you find that there are 9/16 b/t the two marks. So you have 3/16 equaling 5 degrees. Anyone buy into that? Go measure b/t the marks on your pulley and I think you'll get 9/16 inch or 1.5cm.

Bambam7

I dunno... fractions scare me....
But ya, that equals my resullts.... 1mm~1 degree (and yes, I am rounding off, I'd like to see anyone eyeball 1/10th of a mm!!!)

If the pin is 10 degrees BTDC, then my timing is about 18 degrees BTDC, or about 8 degrees advanced from stock
I am not worried about detonation because I am running pretty rich (prevents detonation a bit), and I've got beefy 3mm apex seals....
I wouldn't go any more than I have though.
If anyone wants to check the results of their timing adjustments, pull the plugs after a week and check the color, too much advance will burn the plugs.

And to answer an earlier post, you cannot independantly adjust the leading and trailing timing without buying a piggyback ITC mudule and putting it on the leading or trailing coils.... there really is no reason though, depending on the car's setup, some people wouldn't even notice if their trailing plugs weren't firing at all!