How to make a Turbo-2 produce 350hp?
08-06-01, 05:09 PM
#1
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How to make a Turbo-2 produce 350hp?
Im buying a RX7 Turbo-2 as a project car. The car isnt in the best mechanical shapoe, but thats how I want it. So because I now have to start totally from scratch, I have been thinking what exactly I want to do and need to do.
My goal is above 300hp, 350hp is about as high as I want to go because frankly I dont think I need more. My question is, since Im new to RX7's, but old in the import scene, what is it going to take to do this? Id like to use the 2nd gen motor, but I could get a FD motor from Japan if it would be easier and cheaper to do.
Right now I have only come up ewith what Im assuming the basics will be...
Engine Rebuild Kit (Racing Beat performed by the pros)
Turbo upgrade (Im thinking of going GReddy, but I dont know its capabilities.
Intercooler (front mount, probably GReddy as well)
Intake (Apexi)
Exhaust (Apexi GT)
Downpipe (Apexi N1)
Blow-off Valve (Apexi)
Fuel Pump (Type ???)
Fuel Regulator (???)
Fuel Injectors (Ill go GReddy, what size roughly?)
Ignition Wires (what type/brand??)
Spark Plugs (what type/brand??)
Turbo Timer (Apexi)
Now from here my everyday knowledge sort of stops. I know I will need some sort of fuel and boost tuning equipment, and maybe even igntion, but I dont know what would be best for the RX7. Wether I get a complete piggyback or standalone (again what brands) or just piece something together using the Apexi S-AFC, AVC-R and ITC?
As well how well will the factory igntion box/coil/distributor handle all of this?
And I think finally for now, since the car is older, mechanically what other things should I look at modifying/upgrading/replacing? Im thinking perhaps cooling, but how far I dont know, as well the oil system.
Any help/advise or insight would GREATLY be appreciated.
Thanks everyone!!
My goal is above 300hp, 350hp is about as high as I want to go because frankly I dont think I need more. My question is, since Im new to RX7's, but old in the import scene, what is it going to take to do this? Id like to use the 2nd gen motor, but I could get a FD motor from Japan if it would be easier and cheaper to do.
Right now I have only come up ewith what Im assuming the basics will be...
Engine Rebuild Kit (Racing Beat performed by the pros)
Turbo upgrade (Im thinking of going GReddy, but I dont know its capabilities.
Intercooler (front mount, probably GReddy as well)
Intake (Apexi)
Exhaust (Apexi GT)
Downpipe (Apexi N1)
Blow-off Valve (Apexi)
Fuel Pump (Type ???)
Fuel Regulator (???)
Fuel Injectors (Ill go GReddy, what size roughly?)
Ignition Wires (what type/brand??)
Spark Plugs (what type/brand??)
Turbo Timer (Apexi)
Now from here my everyday knowledge sort of stops. I know I will need some sort of fuel and boost tuning equipment, and maybe even igntion, but I dont know what would be best for the RX7. Wether I get a complete piggyback or standalone (again what brands) or just piece something together using the Apexi S-AFC, AVC-R and ITC?
As well how well will the factory igntion box/coil/distributor handle all of this?
And I think finally for now, since the car is older, mechanically what other things should I look at modifying/upgrading/replacing? Im thinking perhaps cooling, but how far I dont know, as well the oil system.
Any help/advise or insight would GREATLY be appreciated.
Thanks everyone!!
08-06-01, 06:30 PM
#2
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You might look into these:
Magnecor 10mm wires with NGK plugs.
Walboro fuel pump.
Bigger Aluminum Radiator.
Not sure about any of the other stuff, but it looks like your list is going along nicely with Apexi.
Good luck and keep us posted on all the mods.
Magnecor 10mm wires with NGK plugs.
Walboro fuel pump.
Bigger Aluminum Radiator.
Not sure about any of the other stuff, but it looks like your list is going along nicely with Apexi.
Good luck and keep us posted on all the mods.
08-06-01, 06:33 PM
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Well, your list sounds great...I'm not a turbo guy personally, but have delt w/ them(and helped replace the motor in one). The biggest bang will come from your upgraded turbo, but you can't get crazy w/ a nice turbo unless you have the fuel to support it. Upgrading your injectors to like 550 or 720cc should be good. Get a fuel pump from Rx7.com thats like $270 and will support up to 500HP. Also, exhaust will help. Racing Beats exhuast claims a 60HP gain. So right there w/ turbo, fuel, and exhaust...your looking at OVER 300HP. Get a boost controller and engine management system to limit it all and you can easily get that 300HP you want. Also, if your rebuilding your engine..a street port will gain another easy 35HP or so on a 4port T2 motor...TURBOII guys..help this guy out! I'm sure there is stuff I didn't really go over, I'll wait to see what the T2 guys have to say!
08-06-01, 07:09 PM
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just 350? is that rwhp or bhp?
as far as a turbo goes; if you want to save a little money get your stock turbo converted to a hybrid... make sure you get the wastegate ported like f-in crazy
get 720 secondaries...
as far as fuel control goes a Super-AFC can control the injectors... or if you have a 89-91 car and a 89-91 motor you can get an upgraded ECU...
as far as injectors go; don't waste yout time with Greddy; get some good new RCs
the Apexi GT spec is not really needed; but still cool...
the N1 downpipe is pretty much a waste; it doesn't flow any better than any of the others...
are you planning on getting a test pipe?
the Greddy FMIC is pretty good; i'd go with that or a custom one...
I'd get the engine ported too
you'll prolly be making more than 350hp with that setup running 15psi...
should be good for mid 12s at least with a good launch
but please don't forget the suspension mods and everything just get some good shocks and springs; and make sure all the rest of the suspension is working in tip top shape... (ie. a lot of T2s break their Diff mounts like mine has)... the ball joints may need replacing...
I'd get a TurboXS type-h racing or normal Type-H blow-off valve... it sounds WAY better than an Apexi' imo...
There's a guy in town with a XS on his MR2 turbo and its BADASS... you can hear him from very far away... and it sounds gooood
as far as a turbo goes; if you want to save a little money get your stock turbo converted to a hybrid... make sure you get the wastegate ported like f-in crazy
get 720 secondaries...
as far as fuel control goes a Super-AFC can control the injectors... or if you have a 89-91 car and a 89-91 motor you can get an upgraded ECU...
as far as injectors go; don't waste yout time with Greddy; get some good new RCs
the Apexi GT spec is not really needed; but still cool...
the N1 downpipe is pretty much a waste; it doesn't flow any better than any of the others...
are you planning on getting a test pipe?
the Greddy FMIC is pretty good; i'd go with that or a custom one...
I'd get the engine ported too
you'll prolly be making more than 350hp with that setup running 15psi...
should be good for mid 12s at least with a good launch
but please don't forget the suspension mods and everything
just get some good shocks and springs; and make sure all the rest of the suspension is working in tip top shape... (ie. a lot of T2s break their Diff mounts like mine has)... the ball joints may need replacing...I'd get a TurboXS type-h racing or normal Type-H blow-off valve... it sounds WAY better than an Apexi' imo...
There's a guy in town with a XS on his MR2 turbo and its BADASS... you can hear him from very far away... and it sounds gooood
08-06-01, 07:32 PM
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Also, pick up the new SUPERSTREET issue...the september issue is all about turbos and mainly turbo controllers, etc...they dyno several top brands...its a good issue for turbo lovers..
08-06-01, 07:36 PM
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Heres my list for you, this is the way to do it right-
*Mild/Medium Street port (Racing Beat is Great, so is Atkins Rotary and many more)
*Haltech ECU (VERY IMPORTANT)
*Custom TO4 Turbo (w/ Crispeed Manifold- should be cheaper and more powerful than the HK$ and GReddy kits)
*Custom FMIC and Piping- Theres lots of great cores out there that cost alot less than the ~$1200 GReddy and HK$ want for thiers- Local muffler shop should be able to bend up the pipes super easy for you
*Upgraded fuel pump (i think the popular walbro 255 will work for you)
*720cc/min primaries ~1200cc/min primaries (probably way overkill here 4x 720 should accually be fine)
*Any of the popular BOVs will work since you wont be running a ton of boost
*FULL RACING BEAT TII EXHUAST! Screw that 'tuner' ****. Its not worth the price. For the price of a GReddy or Apexi CAT-BACK you can get the FULL 3" RB exhuast with a SS pre silencer and SS muflers.
*Maybe need a custom DP to go with the crispeed manifold and turbo
*Build your own intake from a universal K&N filter for $40
*Stock Wires and Plugs are fine. Use only NGK plugs- Using 9's all the way around will give you a little better highway performance
*Stock Ignitors are fine, you may want to add a CDI ignition box
*Remove all the emmisions crap- wont need it with the Haltech anyways
*Gauges man! Gauges! EGT/Boost/Water Temp/Fuel Pressure/Oil Pressure/Oil Temp! The first two are manditory, the rest are good
*You'll need to do some work on the suspension as some stuff will be worn out
*Roll Cage?
*clutch/flywheel? ACT makes great clutches
If you run 10psi you can probably put down 300rwhp with this setup- it might even make that HP with less boost. And if you find it too slow you can turn up the boost and re-tune it if nessicary.
*Mild/Medium Street port (Racing Beat is Great, so is Atkins Rotary and many more)
*Haltech ECU (VERY IMPORTANT)
*Custom TO4 Turbo (w/ Crispeed Manifold- should be cheaper and more powerful than the HK$ and GReddy kits)
*Custom FMIC and Piping- Theres lots of great cores out there that cost alot less than the ~$1200 GReddy and HK$ want for thiers- Local muffler shop should be able to bend up the pipes super easy for you
*Upgraded fuel pump (i think the popular walbro 255 will work for you)
*720cc/min primaries ~1200cc/min primaries (probably way overkill here 4x 720 should accually be fine)
*Any of the popular BOVs will work since you wont be running a ton of boost
*FULL RACING BEAT TII EXHUAST! Screw that 'tuner' ****. Its not worth the price. For the price of a GReddy or Apexi CAT-BACK you can get the FULL 3" RB exhuast with a SS pre silencer and SS muflers.
*Maybe need a custom DP to go with the crispeed manifold and turbo
*Build your own intake from a universal K&N filter for $40
*Stock Wires and Plugs are fine. Use only NGK plugs- Using 9's all the way around will give you a little better highway performance
*Stock Ignitors are fine, you may want to add a CDI ignition box
*Remove all the emmisions crap- wont need it with the Haltech anyways
*Gauges man! Gauges! EGT/Boost/Water Temp/Fuel Pressure/Oil Pressure/Oil Temp! The first two are manditory, the rest are good
*You'll need to do some work on the suspension as some stuff will be worn out
*Roll Cage?
*clutch/flywheel? ACT makes great clutches
If you run 10psi you can probably put down 300rwhp with this setup- it might even make that HP with less boost. And if you find it too slow you can turn up the boost and re-tune it if nessicary.
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08-06-01, 09:17 PM
#9
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I agree with Ted drop some cash into it to make it quick and dress it up tastfully and make a nice cruiser out of it. Thats what my NA is gonna become. 
08-07-01, 06:24 PM
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"just 350? is that rwhp or bhp? "
hehe that actually made me laugh out loud
Well either fylwheel or wheel would be OK...Im not looking for insane power, just anything needed to get me high 12's with a good launch. Frankly where I live thats all I need to be one of the top 3 fastest import cars in town.
As for the cash issue, its sort of is sort of isnt alot. I run a shop where I live so there are some nice discounts to help matters, plus we are really looking to get some non-Honda demo cars going to show our locals that there are other, faster and somewhat cheaper ways to go rather than another Civic or Integra. Plus we would like to start tapping into rotaries, Im always interested in learning. And finally this has been my dream car since I was 8 years old, so I figure ehh why not?
As well you'll notice my obsession with Apexi and the brand names, thats mainly because its the lines we sell the most of, so Id like to promote them as much as possible. However if it means risking reliability, performance (depending) and the pricing then I dont care what I use
Id like to thank everyone for their help, evrything seems to match up, and Im VERY relieved from these responses. I was worrying about hearing things like Im risking reliablity or expecting a parts list a mile long, but Im happy with this.
As for the rest, it should be nicely equipped. Suspension, LSD, roll cage, gauges blah blah hehe it will all be there.
Ill for sure keep everyone posted, thanks agaoin...Im sure Ill be back with 100 questions soon
hehe that actually made me laugh out loud
Well either fylwheel or wheel would be OK...Im not looking for insane power, just anything needed to get me high 12's with a good launch. Frankly where I live thats all I need to be one of the top 3 fastest import cars in town.As for the cash issue, its sort of is sort of isnt alot. I run a shop where I live so there are some nice discounts to help matters, plus we are really looking to get some non-Honda demo cars going to show our locals that there are other, faster and somewhat cheaper ways to go rather than another Civic or Integra. Plus we would like to start tapping into rotaries, Im always interested in learning. And finally this has been my dream car since I was 8 years old, so I figure ehh why not?
As well you'll notice my obsession with Apexi and the brand names, thats mainly because its the lines we sell the most of, so Id like to promote them as much as possible. However if it means risking reliability, performance (depending) and the pricing then I dont care what I use
Id like to thank everyone for their help, evrything seems to match up, and Im VERY relieved from these responses. I was worrying about hearing things like Im risking reliablity or expecting a parts list a mile long, but Im happy with this.
As for the rest, it should be nicely equipped. Suspension, LSD, roll cage, gauges blah blah hehe it will all be there.
Ill for sure keep everyone posted, thanks agaoin...Im sure Ill be back with 100 questions soon
08-07-01, 08:27 PM
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to the guy above who said that the RB 3" is the best...
doyou know what a Apexi' GT is?
two is not neccesarily better than one
and if i remember right; a pipe that gets bigger as it goes to the back is a lot better than a straight same size pipe...
a good bit more mid range...
plus a GT-spec looks a lot better than a bland RB 3"
doyou know what a Apexi' GT is?
two is not neccesarily better than one
and if i remember right; a pipe that gets bigger as it goes to the back is a lot better than a straight same size pipe...
a good bit more mid range...
plus a GT-spec looks a lot better than a bland RB 3"
08-07-01, 09:40 PM
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That's a LOT of money being thrown into a car that's (relatively) not that fast...
Why you doing this???
Why you doing this???
With those mods, he would be well in to the 11's!
I guess he could go out and buy a C5 for $45k that would put him in the mid 12's! Now that's a lot of money!
I don't know what "relatively" fast means to you, but any car that runs in the 11's or 12's is just plain fast.
There are a few mods that were mentioned, he could do away with and still have a freakin fast car.
08-07-01, 09:41 PM
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plus a GT-spec looks a lot better than a bland RB 3"
Also, im not conviced that thier progesivly larger pipes is a good thing- More pipe at the end means the exhuast could cool as it goes down the pipe, therefore the the exhuast loses energy, and slows down, creating back pressure. I always thought you wanted to keep the exhaust as hot as possiable till it exited the exhuast.
Either way, Apexi/GReddy mufflers are ugly, and definatly not my style-
08-07-01, 10:21 PM
#14
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Originally posted by RXTASY1
What the hell are you talking about Ted?
With those mods, he would be well in to the 11's!
What the hell are you talking about Ted?
With those mods, he would be well in to the 11's!
Almost nobody nowadays puts together a show car from an FC3S - they are all at least FD3S's.  This is why I was questioning why anyone would do this.
There are "cheaper" ways of creating a "quick" FC, and most of those mods do NOT include most of the bolt on parts and kits available to most consumers.
For example, a bare-bones T04 is about a grand.  An HKS (collected) turbo manifold is $200.  Additional lines and piping is another $500.  This means for under $2,000, you get a turbo system capable of producing 500hp to the wheels, which can get you into the 10's!  Go with an XS Silvia IC core with their endtanks and some custom piping is going to be cheaper and a helluva lot larger (IC core) than any of the typical GReddy or HKS IC kits out there.
-Ted
08-07-01, 10:27 PM
#15
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Originally posted by Bean
to the guy above who said that the RB 3" is the best...
doyou know what a Apexi' GT is?
two is not neccesarily better than one
and if i remember right; a pipe that gets bigger as it goes to the back is a lot better than a straight same size pipe...
a good bit more mid range...
to the guy above who said that the RB 3" is the best...
doyou know what a Apexi' GT is?
two is not neccesarily better than one
and if i remember right; a pipe that gets bigger as it goes to the back is a lot better than a straight same size pipe...
a good bit more mid range...
ALL the A'PEXi N1 systems (including the GT-Spec) were designed for STOCK TURBO AND ENGINES.  This does NOT apply to bigger turbos.  The GT-Spec N1 runs a 65mm flange at the beginning; 3" is 76mm.  It doesn't take much to see which is bigger.  BIGGER IS BETTER, in this case.
plus a GT-spec looks a lot better than a bland RB 3"
-Ted
08-07-01, 11:52 PM
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Why mod an FC...my opinion
Personally, I prefer the design, ride, and feel of an FC well over that of an FD.
I know many people who share my thoughts on this.
Besides, that is the same thing I want out of my car, 350 HP at 12-15 psi.
I love my FC Turbo II '89 and it will be very showy when I am done with it. Would be nice if I had my own shop to work in though...ah well.
I know many people who share my thoughts on this.
Besides, that is the same thing I want out of my car, 350 HP at 12-15 psi.
I love my FC Turbo II '89 and it will be very showy when I am done with it. Would be nice if I had my own shop to work in though...ah well.
08-08-01, 02:32 AM
#18
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Bahhaha
God damn Ted- You think just like i do.
BTW, the Racing beat system is accually 3.15" or 80mm i think.
Wanna turn my car into the Bakersfield Rep for K2Rd. I want a To4.... and i just bought more block off plates from you guys. hehe
God damn Ted- You think just like i do.
BTW, the Racing beat system is accually 3.15" or 80mm i think.
Wanna turn my car into the Bakersfield Rep for K2Rd.
I want a To4.... and i just bought more block off plates from you guys. hehe
08-09-01, 01:36 AM
#20
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Originally posted by AMIR KHALED
RETardTED, This is the 2nd Gen. site, that's why he asked the question at this site not at the 3rd Gen FD site. Please don't start comparing RX-7 Generations.
RETardTED, This is the 2nd Gen. site, that's why he asked the question at this site not at the 3rd Gen FD site. Please don't start comparing RX-7 Generations.
Boy, what is this world coming to...
*SIGH*
If you wanna get techncal, this is an RX-7 SITE.  This is a 2nd gen SECTION or FORUM, not a SITE...
-Ted
08-09-01, 01:49 AM
#21
Super Newbie
Originally posted by AMIR KHALED
RETardTED, This is the 2nd Gen. site, that's why he asked the question at this site not at the 3rd Gen FD site. Please don't start comparing RX-7 Generations.
RETardTED, This is the 2nd Gen. site, that's why he asked the question at this site not at the 3rd Gen FD site. Please don't start comparing RX-7 Generations.
And for the exhaust...why buy it? Build it yourself (if you don't care about loud exhaust volume).
A straight piece of 3" pipe and a couple U bends is relatively cheap. Throw a nice UltraFlo on it and you're set. Then you at least have a lot more choices for the tip design. (I still say the RB looks alot better than the Apex'i stuff)...
08-09-01, 06:36 AM
#22
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Originally posted by Felix Wankel
Dude, whats your deal? Ted's just trying to help
And for the exhaust...why buy it? Build it yourself (if you don't care about loud exhaust volume).
A straight piece of 3" pipe and a couple U bends is relatively cheap. Throw a nice UltraFlo on it and you're set. Then you at least have a lot more choices for the tip design. (I still say the RB looks alot better than the Apex'i stuff)...
Dude, whats your deal? Ted's just trying to help
And for the exhaust...why buy it? Build it yourself (if you don't care about loud exhaust volume).
A straight piece of 3" pipe and a couple U bends is relatively cheap. Throw a nice UltraFlo on it and you're set. Then you at least have a lot more choices for the tip design. (I still say the RB looks alot better than the Apex'i stuff)...
Former MARINE 0351 I blow up **** and I got good frequent flyer miles don't start no **** ALABAMA or SACREMENTO
08-09-01, 06:48 AM
#23
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Originally posted by AMIR KHALED
RETed slipped in a little cheap shot, about how the FC is not a fast car to begin with, he should keep his bullsh*t opinions to you and himself
RETed slipped in a little cheap shot, about how the FC is not a fast car to begin with, he should keep his bullsh*t opinions to you and himself
I did not make a "little cheap shot"; I was pointing out a FACT.  Can you tell me how many FC's you know of that carry major media coverage?  Now how many FD's you remember...Adam Saruwatari, Ray Lochhead, Ari Yellon of RX7.COM, Fast & the Furious...  NUFF SAID.
Now, anyone that knows me personally KNOWS that I HATE FD's with a passion.  I think Mazda blew it BIG-TIME when they rushed the FD into production to beat the JZA80 Supra to the marketplace.  The FD (especially 1993's) are trouble-prone and a nightmare to up-keep.  Yes, it has more power and the fancy double-wishbone, but nothing an FC with a full suspension, big T04 turbo, and Haltech can't take of.  A typical used FD is priced around $15k - you can buy a good FC turbo for $5k.  So how much go-fast goodies you can get for $10k???  Enough to roast a stock to mildly modified FD, no problem...
I'd never own an FD even if it were given to me free.  I HATE working on those things, and nothing short of a big single turbo conversion would make it work reliably; that stock twin-turbo system is a nightmare!
Now, you question my loyalty to the FC3S?  You're dead-wrong about that.  Where's my apology!?!!?
Boy you don't you look really stupid now???
There better be a reply within the next few minutes, cause I caught you posting your last reply within the past 10 minutes!
-Ted