dmoffitt

Hey - a good shop around here has an 88 Turbo II for sale, it's got 22K miles on it, and a BRAND NEW ENGINE as of 1500 miles ago -- It was bought in 88 in Virginia, garaged for 9 years when the guy moved to chicago, and the seals, hoses, etc wore out obviously, so it's got a new engine, clutch, turbo, fuel system, hoses, belts, etc -- and they body is in PRISTINE condition...

so here's the dellima -- what do I offer for this car? They are asking 13.5K which i think is a bit steep, KBB says $5,365 (1.5k miles, exel cond), cars.com says $5,665 (again, excel cond, 1.5k miles) and Edmunds only had 1990 and newer and even THAT with 1.5k miles, execl cond, etc was only $7,818.

Those were "Dealer Retail" prices with all of the options that are on the car, the color, my zip, etc... so what I proposed to the shop was, lets modify the car right off the bat, put on an intake, exhaust, chip, possibly clutch & intercooler, better fuel / engine management, etc, MAYBE a better turbo... and sell the car for like $10-12k.

Does that seem reasonable? Should I ask for MORE for less? The economy is in the tanks and it's a late 80s RWD sports car in Rochester NY winters (yay for snow tires and weight in the back...) so I figure I can get a good car at a good price, but I want to make sure a) I don't get ripped off and b) I don't offend them / insult them -- as they are a good performance shop (imho) and I hope to work with them on the car in the future...

PLEASE PLEASE I need feedback in the next hour or so if possible before I meet with them -- and I'll post what they say when I get back tonight

THANKS GUYS!!
-dave (hopefully a future owner of a beastly RX-7 :P)

Wankel7

Ok, anything over $10,000 is crazy. I would maybe agree if these cars are collector items. However, they are far from that. If you are ready to fork out that much cash for a car. Than why mess around with a 2nd gen? A third gen would seem like the most likly thing. If you are looking for a "Beastly" RX-7. Granted you can make a 2nd gen beastly. But a 3rd gen came beastly from the factory

As for you proposal to have THEM to mod the car if they lower the price. Look what you are going to spend

Intake 140
Exhaust 600
Chip 300
Clutch 300 (But you said it had a new one)
Intercooler 1200-1500 (Unless you go with a volvo or npr - than 100-400)
720CC injectors - 250
S-AFC - 300
Fuel pump 150
Upgraded turbo 800-2000

For a total of $5000 some dollars. If you are planning to do your own work. If not better add a lot for labor.

Now you have spent more than 15K. Go with a 3rd gen if you are ready to spend that much money.
That is a rare find. Also that is great it has a new engine in it. I would spend no more than 8000-9000 for it. And that just seems like to much IMHO

James

Rxmfn7

iTrader: (4)

whoa, 13.5k is WAY too much for that car. Granted the super low miles and new engine and all, its a great find, but I'd say that $6-8k is more like it. I mean you could buy a 3rd gen for 13k Seriosly, as nice as that car probably is, its 13 freakin years old. buy one for like 2 or 3k and put a rebuilt and ported engine in it for around 4-5k, and youll still be way under that price. DONT BUY IT!! Unless they come way down on that price. just my $.02

dmoffitt

thanks!

my issue is finding a 3rd gen for like 13k max that's not going to cost me an arm and a leg in maintenance (ie, not one with 120k miles or something).

If I could get this car for 10-12k plus say the intake, exhaust, chips, LSD, and fuel management stuff (pumps injectors, etc) then would that be a good deal? the other stuff (ie turbo, intercooler, then the necessary clutch that that power would need) can come later...

btw, does the rx-7 come with a Limited-Slip or will I need to put one on myself? I can't seem to find that on carpoint, etc... If not, does Kaaz or anyone else make a decently priced one for it?

-dave

vaughnc

dmoffitt,

The TIIs came with a limited slip diff, aluminum hood, rear steer system (more grip), dynamic intake (better boosting), ABS & autobelts in the 89-92 years, and a bulletproof drivetrain capable of 450rwhp.

$7500 will get you a prestine Turbo II, $8500 will get you a prestine & modded Turbo II, $4500-$6500 will get you a good shape TII that may need a little interior / body work.

It's easy to find a Turbo II in black, red, white. Silver, mica blue, and dark blue are rarer colors.

FEDREX

A buddy of mine just bought a one-owner black '87 TII with 52K for $7000. In my opinion, it's worth it - the car is immaculate...

Blue Books, NADA's and similar publications are merely GUIDES. The values fluctuate contingent on actual market value.

A pristine TII is worth more than book - to the right buyer (meaning any of us)

However, if you pay more than $7-7500 for a TII in rxcellent/pristine condition then you've probably bumped your head.

MisterMatt

I hope it's not too late, but I would say there's no way I would pay 13k for that...I thought you could easily find some like that for half that price. Oh well, it's a car...go with your heart! It's probably the best emotional investment you'll make. If you Love her, then by all means, go for it...but there's more fish in the sea! Take that piece of useless info for what it's worth.
<>< <>< Matt ><> ><>

PaulC

If im late sorry but I have to agree 13,5 is nuts. now if it had like 9000k only on the odometer ...... maybe IF you are a collector (like Jay Leno) and only want it cause of its low milage and pristine condition. 8-8500 is as far as i would go.

dmoffitt

sorry it took me so long to reply - i was watching WRC Rally stuff on speedvision (i have a friend who rallys his wrx so we like watching races both on and off the dirt).

anyhow, I talked to the dealer, and he said we could put on an intake, exhaust, fuel-cut defenser, boost controller, upgraded injectors and fuel pump, and he'd do all of the work, even put on my snow tires (yes it's gotta be a daily driver... oh well).

all of that for 11.5k -- seems fair enough for about 2k in parts plus all of the labor -- or at least not highway robbery

Scott 89t2

dude if you mod this car or drive it in the winter you are a retard. leave if for someone who will collect it. that is what it is, a collector. If I owned it with that low millage it would sit in my garage unless it was a perfect sunny day, and wouldn't get driven to much. you could pick up a good one for a few grand. and have lots of $$ left over for mods. do you want a fast car with lots of mods? or a high priced colletor?

Is this by any chance a 10th AE?? if so I'd say it's worth the $$. and then you would be an even bigger retard to drive or touch it.

Ryde _Or_Die

Man don't do that, no way no how. My friend is selling his 87 TII which is in pretty damn good condition, just had a full rebuild say 2 months ago for $2700 obo. Now you are willing to spend $10,000 more for nothing really. I mean, you can find TII's in great looking shape all over with bad engines for like anywhere from $500 to $2000. Then have a Mazda reman put in for what, $3,000?(not sure could be more). Or get a J-spec($950), have it built for racing with a streetport too(say $2500 or so) and still save what, $7,000. If you have $13,000 or even what was it $11,500 just get a TII with a good body & do everything custom. You can have one bad-*** 7.

GothicBlade

I'm paying $5500 for a pristine first owner '89 TII. (assuming the loan goes through, I find out tomorrow morining) Granted, she has more miles (120k on the chassis, about 40k on the engine), but 13.5k seems inordinantly steep for a 2nd gen. If I had that kind of money to toss around I'd find a non-running FD and drop a fresh engine in her. Just my thoughts.

Speed Addict

The one thing that worries me about this car is that it needed a full rebuild after only 22K mile. Yes, it is possible to tear a motor up that quickly, so be sure you know exactly why it was replaced (was it just sitting for 9 years, or was there something else?). I agree 11.5 is too much to pay for the car even with the extra stuff. If you are gonna spend that kind of money to begin with, you should go third gen (IMO). There is a guy down here selling an awesome '94 for 13.5 (60K or so), now that's a sweet car. I also agree that a car like that should not be a daily driver in a snowy climate, not so much because of the snow, but b/c of the sand and salt they put down to melt it, which will eat holes in the body, if you don't wash EVERY piece of the car meticulously.

Ok, that's my $.04

BoostedRotors

That is NUTS! NO WAY Id pay that much. I bought my Tll for $2700, and i have yet to see a cleaner one. (forget the fact that I just blew my coolant seals)

dmoffitt

Scott 89t2, thanks for calling me a retard. Repeatedly. Really encouraging for a new member's first post... So what you're saying is, "Dude, if your uncle sold you his new 911 Twin Turbo for 20,000 dollars, you should never drive it, or give it away to a charity, since it's a Rich Person's Car, not a fast, fun vehicle for people who enjoy performance and handling" - right? And what's wrong with having a fast car with mods AND that's in pristine condition? Why pay 2k in body work to fix crap when I can buy it that way up front?

Now to address people's CONSTRUCTIVE comments / questions:

Ryde _Or_Die, i don't want a remanufactured engine, i don't want a rebuilt engine, this has a NEW egine. Also addressing GothicBlade - I don't want to do an engine swap. I don't have the time to wait for it to get done, I don't have the know-how to do it myself, and this car already has a brand-new engine from mazda... so why spend the same money to fix up a chassis, swap in a used motor, FIND a broken RX-7 (there aren't many here period, much less for sale, much less a good body but bad engine).

And on that note, Speed Addict, your post said "There is a guy down here ... " -- but that's the whole problem, if I was in VA, or TX, or FL, i'd have no problem finding this car, or a 300ZX twin turbo, or a 3rd gen RX-7, or another 944 turbo for a damned good price, but as it is, Rochester NY isn't exactly "sports car central" -- oh, and this wasn't rebuilt, it was replaced... yes, as you said, because it literally SAT 9 years and seals / hoses etc wore out.

And I wash my cars (no matter what they are) ever week in the winter anyway, underbody, etc... I'm not all too worried about rust, and I' not too worried about driving in the winter, a friend of mine had an e30 BMW ('85 325e) that was fine in the winter, and he drives like a crazy-man :P I drive like an 80-year-old grandma in the snow... and that was in a FWD VW Golf (and later a Jetta).

So basically, what I want is a VERY nice looking car, very clean, running extremly well, and with a little extra power (I figure approx 200 hp to the wheels with the mods I'm looking at). I don't drag-race, I could care less about going fast in straight lines, I'd buy an old firebird or camero if I wanted that, I want something that can hold it's own on the straights, or autocrossing, and CORNER well, and from my understanding (and my limited time driving an RX-7 or riding in one) they do thrive in the twisties.

Yeah, I could probably buy a beat-up car w/ a non-working engine, put in a new one (maybe even the 3rd gen powerplant) and so on, and probably be at 11K or even a little less, but I don't have the time (or tools, much less knowledge) to do it myself, and hell, if I was building a car from the ground up, I don't think it'd be an RX-7 anyway...

thanks for your $.02 (or more, sorry, no change :P) - If you guys do think this is a bad deal, perhaps point me to something I can use as leverage with the guy selling it, ie PROOF this isn't the greatest price (blue book, edmunds, etc are useless as they don't take into account the value of a new engine, or the quality of the interior / exterior, since i'd guess a good 95-98% of the car sales reported to blue book are NOT for cars in that kind of shape).

Erik

well, looks like the concensus here is that its too high a price.........but who cares! if you want it man...get it! if you know you'll have a blast driving it and cruising around, then its all good. personally, i'd still try to talk him down just for your benefit, but see what happens.

i'm just a little confused as what you mean by a "new" engine? you mean new housings, rotors, seals, etc? i was under the impression that mazda doesn't sell 13BT crate motors...but will sell the components that make it up...

good luck dooooood!

dmoffitt

you know, i don't know if they do crate engines, etc (i really wonder....) but supposedly it's "new, from mazda / the factory" ie, they didn't buy it off a salvage yard and recondition it... good question.

maybe if I go in and hem / haw a bit, and express my concern about proving the engine is new, etc (he said he has recipts for all of the new parts) he'll consider lowering the price (or i'll ask if i feel there's insuffecient proof).

vaughnc

dmoffitt,

LOL

As you can tell the 2nd gens owners are often of the "build it up yourself" supercar and can't understand paying a premium for a sweet emaculent one.

Like you I had the $$$ to spend on my first sports care and I wanted a sweet rx7 that would be in near emmaculent condition. Of course I did compromise to find a 1991/1992 Turbo II specifically in Dark Blue The premium I paid was well worth it though as the car also had a new engine from Mazda and no major problems.

Right now I'm looking for a project 89-92 convertible though, so I've caved a bit into the "build it yourself fun / learn about your car" mindset

Either way your getting a sweet supercar that's still (after all this time) thousands less than the equivalent porche, handles better, and has a larger following, community, aftermarket accessories, bodykits, performance accessories, etc..

-- vaughnc

supergoat

Nice find! I hope you have lots of fun with it.

dmoffitt

thanks vaughnc and supergoat! yeah if this does work out, i sure do hope to enjoy it

scathcart

About the engine: Mazda does not make "NEW" engines for our cars anymore, they make remanufactured engines. They take your core engine and rebuild it to manufactures specs. It is LIKE a new motor, but not a new motor. The engine may or may not have new housings, rotors, side housings, etc, but it will have new seals and all, come with flywheel, oil pump and pan, water pump, etc. OMP will not be new, btw.
Mazda follows very exact specs on their rebuilds, does not do any modifications (its just like it would come from the factory) and offer a year's warranty on their motors, but they are not new.
Also they do make 13BT engines. They run the same basic price as an N/A engine, which is around $1900-2000 USD depending on year. The engines take about a week to come in after ordering. Core charge for the old motor is $650 USD, not included in the above price.
As well, I cannot see paying $11K US for an 88 TII. For that, you could get an absolutely PERFECT 90-91, which would make more power, and have some of the nice stuff (round tail lights, front bumper), and still have money left over.
But to each his own... If you have that kind of money, and really want the car, by all means go for it. But don't get tricked into thinking it is new.

FEDREX

It seems somewhat obvious you've already sold yourself on the car and taken "mental ownership"....

I bought my '90 TII with 42k on the odometer 3 years ago for $7000. (I am the 3rd owner) The car is in excellent condition (leather) and a NEW motor was put in at 39k. (I called the dealer that put it in and read them the invoice number which I still have, and they confirmed the new engine) The original engine had a coolant problem.

It's your money, but you should have figured out by now that what you're looking at is not a very good deal.

dmoffitt

FEDREX, i never said it was the deal of a century, i merely said for the condition that the car was in (my brand new acura doesn't have paint that good) etc, it felt like i wasn't getting ripped off too bad

scathcart, thanks for the engine info -- after reading that, plus someone else's post, i think i'll hold off and tell the dealer no-thanks, as beautiful as the car is, i can always wait a few years because if it's been rebuilt, plus from what i've heard, the rotary engines need constant rebuilds anyway, well, that's not as "great" of a car as i thought.... *grumble*

anyhow, thanks everyone for the info. looks like i won't be joining your ranks as soon as i'd hoped

vaughnc

If you mean every 140K miles constant, you must have an 89 acura with 300K miles on it or something

In doge/crysler terms 140K is a long time.