help with 87, is she dead?
11-16-07, 03:53 PM
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help with 87, is she dead?
Hi guys, this is my first "real" post. I have an 87 automatic n/a x2(4seater) with 14x,xxx miles on it and it wont start. The last 2-3 months it has been flooding on a regular basis even if i go on longer drives, Ill do the de-flooding thing and it will spring to life but yesterday all my efforts were for not. I tried de-flooding for about an hour (hooked up to another running car) and it would not start or even "chug" like it was going to. I do have a non-smog throttle body, and all the rest of the smog stuff (air pump, cats, hoses, ect.) have been removed and capped off.
I was contemplating putting all the smog stuff back on and tring to start it then but i think my problem is deeper than that. I was looking for some advice and maybe some direction as to where to go. I was going to check compression and plugs to see if I can locate the problem. Any help or a point in the right direction would be greatly appreciated. I am some whatelly mechanically inclined and have a haynes manual and most all the tools i need.
Thanks in advance
Steve
I was contemplating putting all the smog stuff back on and tring to start it then but i think my problem is deeper than that. I was looking for some advice and maybe some direction as to where to go. I was going to check compression and plugs to see if I can locate the problem. Any help or a point in the right direction would be greatly appreciated. I am some whatelly mechanically inclined and have a haynes manual and most all the tools i need.
Thanks in advance
Steve
11-16-07, 03:55 PM
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It might be worth it to compression check. One of the rotors could have lost compression. From what I believe, lots of flooding is coupled with bad injectors/low compression.
11-16-07, 07:03 PM
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Tow it to get it running, shut it off after letting it warm up and then do a compression check, often compression checks show artificially low when the engine is flooded.
If the engine won't start when towed until it is turning 2,000 RPM or so, (with the key on), something else is wrong.
If the engine won't start when towed until it is turning 2,000 RPM or so, (with the key on), something else is wrong.
11-16-07, 08:13 PM
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I dont think i can tow or push start it, or i dont know how, its an automatic... Im gonna pull the plugs check em' do a compression check morrow morning and then ill post findings, maybe w/ pix. If anyone else has any clue im more than open to any help. Thanks so far guys!
11-16-07, 08:23 PM
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Dont take this as offence, but I feel sorry for you because you bought an auto.
Compression check will tell you everything about the motor, only problem is figuring out how to de-flood it so that the compression numbers are accurate. If you compression check when it's cold, the numbers are going to be lower then what is true.
Compression check will tell you everything about the motor, only problem is figuring out how to de-flood it so that the compression numbers are accurate. If you compression check when it's cold, the numbers are going to be lower then what is true.
11-16-07, 09:31 PM
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None taken, I was in a motorcycle accident and had my left leg in a cast for about a year, thus the auto.
What ill do is, pull the plugs, pull the ecu, hook up my battery to another running car and crank it 15 sec with pedal down, the 10 sec no pedal w/ ecu then repeat 3-5 times put the plugs back in and try it. I think like CYBERPITS said one of the injectors may be bad and flooding out the engine. Im hopeing when i pull the plugs they'll be wet and know its flooding out. If there dry im gonna be stumped.
Like I said in the orignal post im gonna play with it a lil and see if i cant get it to start, if not im gonna swap to the smog legal throttle body and see if that does the trick, also gonna check and see if i get spark from the plugs, hopefully i dont get shocked when i do it this time.
What ill do is, pull the plugs, pull the ecu, hook up my battery to another running car and crank it 15 sec with pedal down, the 10 sec no pedal w/ ecu then repeat 3-5 times put the plugs back in and try it. I think like CYBERPITS said one of the injectors may be bad and flooding out the engine. Im hopeing when i pull the plugs they'll be wet and know its flooding out. If there dry im gonna be stumped.
Like I said in the orignal post im gonna play with it a lil and see if i cant get it to start, if not im gonna swap to the smog legal throttle body and see if that does the trick, also gonna check and see if i get spark from the plugs, hopefully i dont get shocked when i do it this time.
11-17-07, 02:37 PM
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Alright, so a lil update. I pulled the plugs and check them they were dry (20 hours later) and looked fine i took some little rolled up towells and put them into the plug holes and cranked for about 5 seconds w/ the egi fuze in and all of the towells got pushed out of the holes (4 of them) but none of them smelled like gasoline. Then i tried cranking again for 15 sec this time and saw basket ball size a "poof" of white gas come out of one of the spark plug holes. Then the battery died (its on a charger right now)....
I was thinking it might be the fuel filter because i smelled no gas when i cranked it with the towells in it but now im not so sure. Im still going to switch back to all the smog legal stuff and try it again. If it still wont start its going to the dealer on monday or tuesday. Ill post results from what happens when i put the smog stuff back on in a little...
I was thinking it might be the fuel filter because i smelled no gas when i cranked it with the towells in it but now im not so sure. Im still going to switch back to all the smog legal stuff and try it again. If it still wont start its going to the dealer on monday or tuesday. Ill post results from what happens when i put the smog stuff back on in a little...
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11-17-07, 03:09 PM
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Automatic = Power drain
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Just because the plugs are dry doesn't mean that the engine is not flooded. The gas will sift down around to the bottom of the engine over time.
The basket-ball-sized "poof" of gas coming out indicates that it is most likely flooded.
(Do you mean that after 15 seconds of cranking the battery was dead?)
My battery will crank my car for 10 minutes straight without a problem (Discovered one winter day when it decided to flood and I had to get it to the top of a hill to get it to coast start). I do not recommend doing this as it is very hard on the starter.
Just the same, I suspect that the battery may actually be the entire problem, a low battery will make an RX7 hard to start.
I apologize for the pull start suggestion, I did not catch that it was an automatic.
You might want to try dumping a LITTLE BIT of motor oil or 2-cycle oil down the spark-plug holes to lubricate the apex seals and then do a compression check.
The basket-ball-sized "poof" of gas coming out indicates that it is most likely flooded.
(Do you mean that after 15 seconds of cranking the battery was dead?)
My battery will crank my car for 10 minutes straight without a problem (Discovered one winter day when it decided to flood and I had to get it to the top of a hill to get it to coast start). I do not recommend doing this as it is very hard on the starter.
Just the same, I suspect that the battery may actually be the entire problem, a low battery will make an RX7 hard to start.
I apologize for the pull start suggestion, I did not catch that it was an automatic.
You might want to try dumping a LITTLE BIT of motor oil or 2-cycle oil down the spark-plug holes to lubricate the apex seals and then do a compression check.
11-17-07, 03:27 PM
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Naw, naw the battery was almost dead from me cranking it for 5-10 minutes when it intitally wouldnt start yesterday.
Fairly new battery. From 1st time it ever flooded. Im kinda wondering if was just really flooded. But if thats the case then why did it go from not ever flooding for 6 months and then slowly start flooding every now and then and then more and more...
Ill try the compression test and post the results here.
Fairly new battery. From 1st time it ever flooded. Im kinda wondering if was just really flooded. But if thats the case then why did it go from not ever flooding for 6 months and then slowly start flooding every now and then and then more and more...
Ill try the compression test and post the results here.
11-17-07, 03:38 PM
#10
Hi guys, this is my first "real" post. I have an 87 automatic n/a x2(4seater) with 14x,xxx miles on it and it wont start. The last 2-3 months it has been flooding on a regular basis even if i go on longer drives, Ill do the de-flooding thing and it will spring to life but yesterday all my efforts were for not. I tried de-flooding for about an hour (hooked up to another running car) and it would not start or even "chug" like it was going to. I do have a non-smog throttle body, and all the rest of the smog stuff (air pump, cats, hoses, ect.) have been removed and capped off.
I was contemplating putting all the smog stuff back on and tring to start it then but i think my problem is deeper than that. I was looking for some advice and maybe some direction as to where to go. I was going to check compression and plugs to see if I can locate the problem. Any help or a point in the right direction would be greatly appreciated. I am some whatelly mechanically inclined and have a haynes manual and most all the tools i need.
Thanks in advanceSteve
I was contemplating putting all the smog stuff back on and tring to start it then but i think my problem is deeper than that. I was looking for some advice and maybe some direction as to where to go. I was going to check compression and plugs to see if I can locate the problem. Any help or a point in the right direction would be greatly appreciated. I am some whatelly mechanically inclined and have a haynes manual and most all the tools i need.
Thanks in advanceSteve
What kind of caps did you use? The rubber ones can crack which may cause a problem depending on how your emm are setup. Maybe a crack devolped then got worse over a few heatcycles.
Just a guess but check!
Did you try oil or ATF to get it running? I don't think it will solve the orignal problem--leaking fuel injectors
11-18-07, 05:31 PM
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I pulled the plugs and did a de-flooding procedure and it started right up. The one question I do have is would dirty/bad injectors make the idle fluxuate?
Its ideling between 500 and 1000 bouincing up and down "vroom.....vroom...vroom...vroom" once at speed it runs fine. Off to find my compression checker and do a warm test. Thanks guys!
Its ideling between 500 and 1000 bouincing up and down "vroom.....vroom...vroom...vroom" once at speed it runs fine. Off to find my compression checker and do a warm test. Thanks guys!
11-18-07, 05:41 PM
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a badly bouncing idle like that is a common problem.... imloggedin put up a good thread about exactly how to diagnose a bad idle and what to do to fix it. Search for that thread, and go to town. IMO, it's probably either vac leak, TPS, or the BAC valve.... common culprits..... (ask me how I know)
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