Has your engine survived an overheat?
11-30-10, 01:30 AM
#26
I've driven 50 miles or so off and on with the stock gauge(s4 t2) @ 3/4 - sorting out an e fan install. A review of the rtek log revealed that it got up to 237* . It didn't want to start w/o hitting the fuel cut switch for the rest of the day, but once it got a chance to throughly cool down it seemed to be fine.
That was months ago and it still drives and idles fine, w/no coolant loss. Also I have since adjusted thee startup fuel map (way too rich stock ) so the hot start issue might not have had much to do w/ overheating.
That was months ago and it still drives and idles fine, w/no coolant loss. Also I have since adjusted thee startup fuel map (way too rich stock ) so the hot start issue might not have had much to do w/ overheating.
11-30-10, 01:58 AM
#28
The OEM radiator going created quite the display. Huge "PHOOOOSH" sound at a light with steam pooring out of my hood scoop and around the whole edge of the hood.
11-30-10, 11:35 AM
#30
MECP Certified Installer
Yeah, My car overheated many times with the old engine.
When I bought the car, I had no idea because it was so small, a crack in the front iron on the exhaust side.
After about 3 months, the coolant buzzer starts going off from the obvious air bubble.
Bleed, fill, done...every 3 months.
Well, after about a year it started getting WAY worse. It was happening almost daily.
Disassemble engine and voila! 3 cracks in the front iron on the exhaust side. 20yr old, 160k mile seals still intact.
Now, this might not be true, but I have heard that the front irons have this tendency to crack, regardless of overheating or not. Some sort of structural defect or what have you.
Funny thing is, that engine was the original from Mazda. The guys at Rotary Performance didn't believe me until they saw the factory asbestos front cover gasket.
When I bought the car, I had no idea because it was so small, a crack in the front iron on the exhaust side.
After about 3 months, the coolant buzzer starts going off from the obvious air bubble.
Bleed, fill, done...every 3 months.
Well, after about a year it started getting WAY worse. It was happening almost daily.
Disassemble engine and voila! 3 cracks in the front iron on the exhaust side. 20yr old, 160k mile seals still intact.
Now, this might not be true, but I have heard that the front irons have this tendency to crack, regardless of overheating or not. Some sort of structural defect or what have you.
Funny thing is, that engine was the original from Mazda. The guys at Rotary Performance didn't believe me until they saw the factory asbestos front cover gasket.
11-30-10, 11:41 AM
#31
the front irons do have a tendendy to crack first, i have literally almost zero spare front irons but over a dozen spare rear irons of nearly every series. the center iron is second to go, because it has 2 sides with twice as many possible failure points.
but realistically, there is no rhyme or reason which irons are more susceptible to fail, i just find that the castings on some irons are just much thinner in some areas than others. if you have plenty of spare irons and are building a motor, use the ones with the thickest coolant seal walls for a more bulletproof engine, but as i said earlier i am going to start selling a product to help fix this issue in the near future.
mazda could have fixed this issue by making the castings thicker but these engines did their job to carry the cars out of warranty mileage, that is all that they needed them to do. they at least realized that the coolant seals in the aluminum jackets were a less possible issue than in the irons and went back to that with the renesis which was a step back in the right direction, unfortunately all of us with a 13B/T/RE/REW engine have to worry about possible iron fatigue and eventual failure.
but realistically, there is no rhyme or reason which irons are more susceptible to fail, i just find that the castings on some irons are just much thinner in some areas than others. if you have plenty of spare irons and are building a motor, use the ones with the thickest coolant seal walls for a more bulletproof engine, but as i said earlier i am going to start selling a product to help fix this issue in the near future.
mazda could have fixed this issue by making the castings thicker but these engines did their job to carry the cars out of warranty mileage, that is all that they needed them to do. they at least realized that the coolant seals in the aluminum jackets were a less possible issue than in the irons and went back to that with the renesis which was a step back in the right direction, unfortunately all of us with a 13B/T/RE/REW engine have to worry about possible iron fatigue and eventual failure.
11-30-10, 11:52 AM
#32
MECP Certified Installer
the front irons do have a tendendy to crack first, i have literally almost zero spare front irons but over a dozen spare rear irons of nearly every series. the center iron is second to go, because it has 2 sides with twice as many possible failure points.
but realistically, there is no rhyme or reason which irons are more susceptible to fail, i just find that the castings on some irons are just much thinner in some areas than others. if you have plenty of spare irons and are building a motor, use the ones with the thickest coolant seal walls for a more bulletproof engine, but as i said earlier i am going to start selling a product to help fix this issue in the near future.
mazda could have fixed this issue by making the castings thicker but these engines did their job to carry the cars out of warranty mileage, that is all that they needed them to do. they at least realized that the coolant seals in the aluminum jackets were a less possible issue than in the irons and went back to that with the renesis which was a step back in the right direction, unfortunately all of us with a 13B/T/RE/REW engine have to worry about possible iron fatigue and eventual failure.
but realistically, there is no rhyme or reason which irons are more susceptible to fail, i just find that the castings on some irons are just much thinner in some areas than others. if you have plenty of spare irons and are building a motor, use the ones with the thickest coolant seal walls for a more bulletproof engine, but as i said earlier i am going to start selling a product to help fix this issue in the near future.
mazda could have fixed this issue by making the castings thicker but these engines did their job to carry the cars out of warranty mileage, that is all that they needed them to do. they at least realized that the coolant seals in the aluminum jackets were a less possible issue than in the irons and went back to that with the renesis which was a step back in the right direction, unfortunately all of us with a 13B/T/RE/REW engine have to worry about possible iron fatigue and eventual failure.
Karack, I know you won't tell me, but I am sitting here staring at a front iron trying to figure out just what **** you might be making, hehe.
11-30-10, 11:56 AM
#33
i'm still getting materials and patent in process. considering there's still thousands of these engines on the road and it will be, i hope, revolutionary for the reliability of these engines as far as the cooling system goes. unfortunately it can only be done while the engine is apart. something that most people will wish they had thought of it, but the material has to be custom tailored and takes me around a month to get.
in a few weeks time i will be sending in my request for vendor and listing it for sale, after more substantial testing on engines with already cracked irons is proved.
in a few weeks time i will be sending in my request for vendor and listing it for sale, after more substantial testing on engines with already cracked irons is proved.
11-30-10, 12:05 PM
#35
well i guess this is one way to build a new engine for the TII, considering the irons being used are already technically junk it won't matter if i test them up to say, 450+ wheel horsepower! if the seals don't blow out under that force i will have to say they should be good for release with a bit of daily driving thrown in. i'll make it a 9.4:1 CR motor for good measure..
12-03-10, 03:06 PM
#36
after some research most of these higher grade composite rubbers are rated at 400*F, the higher grade viton and buna-n are rated that high but lack elasticity(i'm not a huge fan of buna because most of the buna composites swell when mixed with petroleum products), so i don't think the OEM coolant seals share the same category rating, probably middle of the road at 300*F like i originally guessed. one way to find out is grab an old one and toss it into an oven and see, while monitoring the internal temps with an infrared temp gauge(since most household oven's temperature indicators aren't very accurate). if someone wants a little project to do.
curing these design flaws has become my new focus, even if it will result in less rebuilds. in 10 years they will be running on the remaining very expensive dino fuels or running on hybrid fuels like ethanol/methanol strictly anyways. i dont think hydrogen will ever catch on, there won't be companies jumping at the opportunity to create it in mass quanities nor will they create sports cars from hydrogen fuels, i'm not sure why mazda is trying with their lackluster 100 horsepower wankel version.
curing these design flaws has become my new focus, even if it will result in less rebuilds. in 10 years they will be running on the remaining very expensive dino fuels or running on hybrid fuels like ethanol/methanol strictly anyways. i dont think hydrogen will ever catch on, there won't be companies jumping at the opportunity to create it in mass quanities nor will they create sports cars from hydrogen fuels, i'm not sure why mazda is trying with their lackluster 100 horsepower wankel version.
12-03-10, 04:58 PM
#38
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I don't know the temp numbers, but due to my wobbling intake box. It made a gash in my coolent hose.
so I was driving out of my friend apartment one day, and my fc gave me a hesitant start up.
I was like wth, and drove off.
then I drove about 0.2 mi. And stopped at a stop sign, and noticed smoke hissing out of the bay, reflecting off my HID lights. And I noticed the temp gauge slowly rising up to the top.
I tripped ***** and immediately turned it off, and towed to a shop.
nothing big, just sprayed coolent everywhere, but it fucked up my engine somehow and ever since then, I get low compression on my front rotor.
my survival story
so I was driving out of my friend apartment one day, and my fc gave me a hesitant start up.
I was like wth, and drove off.
then I drove about 0.2 mi. And stopped at a stop sign, and noticed smoke hissing out of the bay, reflecting off my HID lights. And I noticed the temp gauge slowly rising up to the top.
I tripped ***** and immediately turned it off, and towed to a shop.
nothing big, just sprayed coolent everywhere, but it fucked up my engine somehow and ever since then, I get low compression on my front rotor.
my survival story
Last edited by wjk0817; 12-03-10 at 05:01 PM.
12-03-10, 05:04 PM
#39
As long as you don't lose too much coolant the engine is likely to survive. Going above 200 F isn't ideal but combustion temps without any coolant is in the thousands.
I wonder if the 1st gen irons are any better. If we do get any options for our 2nd gen engines that'd be great to have on rebuilds.
You can expect fossil fuels to stay around for a very long time, on account of the fact that the alternative fuels are just wasteful ways to use fossil fuels. They are either created with fossil fuel powered machinery or are converted directly from petroleum.
I wonder if the 1st gen irons are any better. If we do get any options for our 2nd gen engines that'd be great to have on rebuilds.
You can expect fossil fuels to stay around for a very long time, on account of the fact that the alternative fuels are just wasteful ways to use fossil fuels. They are either created with fossil fuel powered machinery or are converted directly from petroleum.
12-03-10, 06:21 PM
#40
ive overheated my S5tii engine 4 times.
Getting to 250-270F, everything is original in the engine. Engine died from detonation.
I remembered when I was hitting full boost on the onramp in 3rd gear and all of a sudden steam started to come out the engine bay. My radiator hose popped off the water pump neck. I drove home with basically no to little coolant and it was fine after.
My S4 n/a overheated countless times above 220F. Its still running. Everything still original 160k miles.
The times they overheat, they are runned for less then 5mins while overheating.
Getting to 250-270F, everything is original in the engine. Engine died from detonation.
I remembered when I was hitting full boost on the onramp in 3rd gear and all of a sudden steam started to come out the engine bay. My radiator hose popped off the water pump neck. I drove home with basically no to little coolant and it was fine after.
My S4 n/a overheated countless times above 220F. Its still running. Everything still original 160k miles.
The times they overheat, they are runned for less then 5mins while overheating.
12-03-10, 07:35 PM
#41
i'm still getting materials and patent in process. considering there's still thousands of these engines on the road and it will be, i hope, revolutionary for the reliability of these engines as far as the cooling system goes. unfortunately it can only be done while the engine is apart. something that most people will wish they had thought of it, but the material has to be custom tailored and takes me around a month to get.
in a few weeks time i will be sending in my request for vendor and listing it for sale, after more substantial testing on engines with already cracked irons is proved.
in a few weeks time i will be sending in my request for vendor and listing it for sale, after more substantial testing on engines with already cracked irons is proved.
12-03-10, 08:45 PM
#42
My first FC on it's first motor held up pretty well until around 270K. As far as I know, it was the original motor. I pegged the gauge right on H around 255K due to a leaking radiator. I thought the motor was fried, but once I replaced the radiator it went on fine for another 15-20K before the oil control rings started going.
12-05-10, 01:11 PM
#43
As long as you don't lose too much coolant the engine is likely to survive. Going above 200 F isn't ideal but combustion temps without any coolant is in the thousands.
I wonder if the 1st gen irons are any better. If we do get any options for our 2nd gen engines that'd be great to have on rebuilds.
You can expect fossil fuels to stay around for a very long time, on account of the fact that the alternative fuels are just wasteful ways to use fossil fuels. They are either created with fossil fuel powered machinery or are converted directly from petroleum.
I wonder if the 1st gen irons are any better. If we do get any options for our 2nd gen engines that'd be great to have on rebuilds.
You can expect fossil fuels to stay around for a very long time, on account of the fact that the alternative fuels are just wasteful ways to use fossil fuels. They are either created with fossil fuel powered machinery or are converted directly from petroleum.
imagine an n/a FC going 500k miles while premixing and still having decent compression and not having to worry about one day it just not starting because it has coolant in the engine for whatever random reason it feels like.
i've already proven that methanol/premix keeps the internals spotless for as many miles as you can throw at one of these engines, howard coleman has as well with a similar mileage teardowns on similar high HP motors. the only missing factor is keeping the coolant seals alive for as long as humanly possible by working out the engineering flaws that are built into these motors without building them from the ground up with new cast irons and re-machined rotor housings. you could use GSL-SE rotor housings and fill in the gaps on the irons with epoxy but that is a rather crude fix and still ignores the fact that the old 13B-SE housings had inferior chromoly plating and even less port area to work with.
01-01-11, 07:12 PM
#44
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Shortly after my car was recovered from being stolen I had the injectors cleaned to deal with the leaking injector/hot start issue. I went just 2 miles down the road to test drive using the cooling system I bought the car with (after market radiator with an insufficient week electric cooling fan hooked to a switch under the dash the person who stole the car was likely not aware of, no shroud or underbelly pan, and an aftermarket thermostat), I was sitting at a drive through for 5 minutes and the car started getting a little warmer got almost up to half way and finally I was back on the road trying to get the speed up to cool the car down. I only got a mile down the road and pulled into an abandoned Shell station when the temperature gauge was pegged at the top and steam clouded the inside like a Cheech and Chong movie. I was freaking out thinking I had blown the motor.
After two hours of cool down though I started it up and drove it the last mile home without waiting for it warm up and the gauge was almost pegged at the top again when I got back. I completely rebuilt the entire cooling system from scratch after that I replaced the aftermarket thermostat with one from the Mazda dealership (I swear by them now since it had the 2nd most impact), pressure tested the system replaced the one bad line, found an original shroud and underbelly pan, replaced the water pump when it started to weep after a few weeks of testing, replaced the electric fan with a original clutch fan. Finally after all of that the temperature gauge sits where it is supposed to and the engine is still showing no signs of needing a rebuild.
~Spike~
After two hours of cool down though I started it up and drove it the last mile home without waiting for it warm up and the gauge was almost pegged at the top again when I got back. I completely rebuilt the entire cooling system from scratch after that I replaced the aftermarket thermostat with one from the Mazda dealership (I swear by them now since it had the 2nd most impact), pressure tested the system replaced the one bad line, found an original shroud and underbelly pan, replaced the water pump when it started to weep after a few weeks of testing, replaced the electric fan with a original clutch fan. Finally after all of that the temperature gauge sits where it is supposed to and the engine is still showing no signs of needing a rebuild.
~Spike~
09-27-14, 10:30 PM
#45
holy mother thread resurrection.
just wanna chime in, my rear engine to heater block hose decided to come off 2 days ago. I was in the midddle of highway, nowhere to stop, the buzzer didn't even go on, I noticed it after I came off the highway, something smells funny and that's when I noticed the gauge was at H mark. I stopped the car right away in front of a police precinct. the engine didn't smoke tho. I let it sit for a while (I know it's ******* hot), stick that stupid hose back into the pipe. and start adding water slowly, and sure enough the rad was empty.
I add it little by little. knowing it will boil HOT even inside the rad. so its kinda like a little bit, let it go hot, then add a little more, to mix it up, until at one point (it probably touchs the engine a bit, it starts steaming and burst out. ok, now all the water must be hot, after the steam stops I add it little by little, until it finally stops. add over 2 gallons of water
then I just start her up, purrs like a kitten again, and drove home.
Did it broke? I don't think so as I checked 2 times no signs of water lost and engine still starts on first try. so I assume nothing broke inside.
it was a fresh build 2 yrs ago and has less than 1K miles(cuz I rarely drives it)
but I coat the whole OEM seal with Hylomar, maybe that helped it to hold? god knows. or maybe it broke into pieces inside. no way to tell now as it starts and drives fine
tomorrow gonna do a coolant flush and oil change, will see if I see funny stuff (hope not)
just wanna chime in, my rear engine to heater block hose decided to come off 2 days ago. I was in the midddle of highway, nowhere to stop, the buzzer didn't even go on, I noticed it after I came off the highway, something smells funny and that's when I noticed the gauge was at H mark. I stopped the car right away in front of a police precinct. the engine didn't smoke tho. I let it sit for a while (I know it's ******* hot), stick that stupid hose back into the pipe. and start adding water slowly, and sure enough the rad was empty.
I add it little by little. knowing it will boil HOT even inside the rad. so its kinda like a little bit, let it go hot, then add a little more, to mix it up, until at one point (it probably touchs the engine a bit, it starts steaming and burst out. ok, now all the water must be hot, after the steam stops I add it little by little, until it finally stops. add over 2 gallons of water
then I just start her up, purrs like a kitten again, and drove home.
Did it broke? I don't think so as I checked 2 times no signs of water lost and engine still starts on first try. so I assume nothing broke inside.
it was a fresh build 2 yrs ago and has less than 1K miles(cuz I rarely drives it)
but I coat the whole OEM seal with Hylomar, maybe that helped it to hold? god knows. or maybe it broke into pieces inside. no way to tell now as it starts and drives fine
tomorrow gonna do a coolant flush and oil change, will see if I see funny stuff (hope not)
09-28-14, 12:20 AM
#46
talking head
worst thing you can do is add water to a hot engine
it likely would have survived the overheat had you let it sit for 2 hrs before attempting to add water to the block
else everytime i have seen someone rush it cool with cold water directly into the rad it has ended badly
lots will depend on your patience on the day
it likely would have survived the overheat had you let it sit for 2 hrs before attempting to add water to the block
else everytime i have seen someone rush it cool with cold water directly into the rad it has ended badly
lots will depend on your patience on the day
09-28-14, 02:51 PM
#48
Well, guess my luck has not left me. both coolant(water really) and oil looks fine. nothing funny.
I noticed is I smell quite a lot of gasoline smell in the oil, I guess that's normal for running stock ECU + I drive usually short distances.
another thing is I think the exhaust manifold gasket probably burnt out or broke. cuz now I can smell exhaust coming out of it. gonna wait for it to cool off a bit before I try to take the exhaust down and look at it.
*phew*
from now on, I always check all hoses before I drive.
I noticed is I smell quite a lot of gasoline smell in the oil, I guess that's normal for running stock ECU + I drive usually short distances.
another thing is I think the exhaust manifold gasket probably burnt out or broke. cuz now I can smell exhaust coming out of it. gonna wait for it to cool off a bit before I try to take the exhaust down and look at it.
*phew*
from now on, I always check all hoses before I drive.
09-28-14, 05:09 PM
#49
worst thing you can do is add water to a hot engine
it likely would have survived the overheat had you let it sit for 2 hrs before attempting to add water to the block
else everytime i have seen someone rush it cool with cold water directly into the rad it has ended badly
lots will depend on your patience on the day
it likely would have survived the overheat had you let it sit for 2 hrs before attempting to add water to the block
else everytime i have seen someone rush it cool with cold water directly into the rad it has ended badly
lots will depend on your patience on the day
After dropping the 20B-REW back in, I apparently didn't tighten the bottom rad hose enough so it was leaking on the way home from my buddy's house. Halfway, the gauge pegged at the top so I stopped and called for help to get some coolant. Added it, and saw it run right out the bottom of the water pump housing. So I VERY CAREFULLY nursed the car along, stopping every few blocks for cooldown and to add water. The last block, I shut off the ignition and let it coast, gauge pegged the whole way.
And nothing bad happened! The engine and turbos laughed it off!
10-05-14, 07:23 PM
#50
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Ran my s4 for a year on blown coolant seals . Can't tell how many times I overheated it , numerous as I can say I've had three time where it was so hot coolant boiled and purged from the overflow ( got stuck in snow storms in Maine) . Still runs and has no loss of power or compression . Haven't pulled the motor apart yet to see the damage but I'm sure I don't have seals anymore