has any one a reliable standalone set up
11-12-10, 01:10 PM
#76
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I switched bc of all the sub systems and finer adjustments avalible with the haltech. i think its far more superior for what i have planned for the vehicle further down the road. also have an issue with the stock wiring there were a bunch of reasons, i do how ever miss the commander.
11-12-10, 01:34 PM
#77
Well there is a two-edged sword, or a multiple one depending on who is doing what.
First, if you own an ECU you need to have a copy or access to the software to tune it or any hardware nec. to tune it. I have seen guys come in with ECU's that require "chipped" cables or dongles, yet they dont own and cannot provide the needed hardware or coded software. USUALLY but not always this is because the tuner who sold them the product kept it for themselves or figured if they did not provide it the customer was then locked into using them.
On the other hand, I personally keep a copy of any software that comes my way, and if someone contacts me about tuning a software I havent seen for a while I go look around to see if theres a newer copy or an update.
I also use this as a measuring stick as to how I pick and choose an ECU. Software and updates should be free and easily available to the tuning public. Years ago I needed a copy of some crap software, Accel or Holly, cant remember which, and the bastards wanted somethig like $295 for it! I could not justify charging the customer for this so I just had him bring me by his discs (3.5" floppy! 5 or 6 of them!) burned them to disc (CD)and tuned the damned car.
I also dislike gadgetry like goofy "chipped" cables, dongles, and other BS. I was at the track once and a guy there needed to do some minor tweeking and logging and had left his cable at home, like 400 miles away! He couldnt even adjust the idle control or pull a single log. Just use hardware that you can buy at a computer store for crying out loud! If you want to "protect" the ECU tune then enable a password protect mechanism like MOTEC, DTA, etc. use.
First, if you own an ECU you need to have a copy or access to the software to tune it or any hardware nec. to tune it. I have seen guys come in with ECU's that require "chipped" cables or dongles, yet they dont own and cannot provide the needed hardware or coded software. USUALLY but not always this is because the tuner who sold them the product kept it for themselves or figured if they did not provide it the customer was then locked into using them.
On the other hand, I personally keep a copy of any software that comes my way, and if someone contacts me about tuning a software I havent seen for a while I go look around to see if theres a newer copy or an update.
I also use this as a measuring stick as to how I pick and choose an ECU. Software and updates should be free and easily available to the tuning public. Years ago I needed a copy of some crap software, Accel or Holly, cant remember which, and the bastards wanted somethig like $295 for it! I could not justify charging the customer for this so I just had him bring me by his discs (3.5" floppy! 5 or 6 of them!) burned them to disc (CD)and tuned the damned car.
I also dislike gadgetry like goofy "chipped" cables, dongles, and other BS. I was at the track once and a guy there needed to do some minor tweeking and logging and had left his cable at home, like 400 miles away! He couldnt even adjust the idle control or pull a single log. Just use hardware that you can buy at a computer store for crying out loud! If you want to "protect" the ECU tune then enable a password protect mechanism like MOTEC, DTA, etc. use.
OBDII cars you just need the cable I suppose and the software- but what about tuning licenses?
11-12-10, 01:58 PM
#78
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You mean like HP Tuners/LS1 EDIT/DiabloSport/GIAC/etc?
Well, actually, this is where I think you pay tp play. If you have a newer Audi, Corvette, etc. and you want to mod the **** out of your OBD2 car while keeping it "legal", then you are atthe mercy of whats out there. I do think a lot of "chip" tunes and canned "flash" tunes are not worth what people get for them, and I personally have never much cared for them. A mistake I assure you, as this is the best source of $$ a tuner can make. $1500 a "flash" or more depending on the car and it literally takes 10 minutes to do. Yeah yeah you have to "buy" the lic and software for 5 or 10K, but its as close to license to print money you will find in the tuner world. Many "chip" tuners do not even have a dyno and dont need one anyway. If there is a problem with the cal file they upload, the "tuner" then just loads in another one. I remember when Evo guys were spending $600 or more per flash for thier ECU's, before OpenECU and the tactrix cable.
But thats really sort of off topic
Well, actually, this is where I think you pay tp play. If you have a newer Audi, Corvette, etc. and you want to mod the **** out of your OBD2 car while keeping it "legal", then you are atthe mercy of whats out there. I do think a lot of "chip" tunes and canned "flash" tunes are not worth what people get for them, and I personally have never much cared for them. A mistake I assure you, as this is the best source of $$ a tuner can make. $1500 a "flash" or more depending on the car and it literally takes 10 minutes to do. Yeah yeah you have to "buy" the lic and software for 5 or 10K, but its as close to license to print money you will find in the tuner world. Many "chip" tuners do not even have a dyno and dont need one anyway. If there is a problem with the cal file they upload, the "tuner" then just loads in another one. I remember when Evo guys were spending $600 or more per flash for thier ECU's, before OpenECU and the tactrix cable.
But thats really sort of off topic
11-12-10, 02:14 PM
#79
thats sort of where I was going with all this, between software, cables, licensing- this is why I think some tuners "only" tune set ups.
I have the wolf now, but have in the past used Tuner Cat, and I have another car now with EFI Live, and in the case of the Tuner Cat all the shops only wanted to tune LS motors because they did not want to bother with the LT1 licensing, even when I told them I had my own licensed copy they just did not want to bother.
I have the wolf now, but have in the past used Tuner Cat, and I have another car now with EFI Live, and in the case of the Tuner Cat all the shops only wanted to tune LS motors because they did not want to bother with the LT1 licensing, even when I told them I had my own licensed copy they just did not want to bother.
11-12-10, 02:23 PM
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thats sort of where I was going with all this, between software, cables, licensing- this is why I think some tuners "only" tune set ups.
I have the wolf now, but have in the past used Tuner Cat, and I have another car now with EFI Live, and in the case of the Tuner Cat all the shops only wanted to tune LS motors because they did not want to bother with the LT1 licensing, even when I told them I had my own licensed copy they just did not want to bother.
I have the wolf now, but have in the past used Tuner Cat, and I have another car now with EFI Live, and in the case of the Tuner Cat all the shops only wanted to tune LS motors because they did not want to bother with the LT1 licensing, even when I told them I had my own licensed copy they just did not want to bother.
I have tuned LS and LT edit cars along with HPtuner cars, and its all the same stuff, just a different label. Some cars we bought the lic software for, other owners had thier own software and we just used thier setups, sometimes even thier laptops. For someone to not want to tune your car with your own software is just stupidity and laziness.
11-13-10, 03:38 PM
#82
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well i have 2 1000cc injectors ...which i bought a long time ago so these may help for my secondarys ,for when im ready for my set up
also i have talked to alot of shops ...i also now waynespeed ...i just dont want a wolf 3d...ive been out there speaking to tuners
all this thread is about, members and there setup and how reliable it is
also i have talked to alot of shops ...i also now waynespeed ...i just dont want a wolf 3d...ive been out there speaking to tuners
all this thread is about, members and there setup and how reliable it is
11-13-10, 04:36 PM
#83
as i mentioned, the ecus themselves dont just fail. they are as reliable as the stock units. the harnesses however, thats another thing as some you have to make, and some come with an adaptor. then its all in the tune.
oh and i forgot to mention, there is a haltech harness for the fc!!. plugs right in, and very minimal soldering if i recall correctly.
oh and i forgot to mention, there is a haltech harness for the fc!!. plugs right in, and very minimal soldering if i recall correctly.
11-14-10, 10:18 AM
#88
Engine, Not Motor
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Performance is not related to the ECU when talking about a full standalone, it is related to the tune.
As long as an ECU can reliably trigger, fire the ignition and supports staged injection, then all things considered, basic performance is going to be entirely dependant on the quality of the tune.
As long as an ECU can reliably trigger, fire the ignition and supports staged injection, then all things considered, basic performance is going to be entirely dependant on the quality of the tune.
11-14-10, 11:13 AM
#89
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thanks aaron ..luckly i have a dyno and tuner across the road from me...they do mostly muscle cars ...and some imports...they use many differant ecu uprades ...but not much for rx7
11-14-10, 10:44 PM
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You also have Dawespeed (Peter Dawe), but he is a Porsche guy mainly. You will not find a better tuner, but he is the farthest thing from cheap.
Mike Levitas' Turbo Performance Center (probably farther from you) is also a very good choice.
I do not buy into the "find a rotary tuner" garbage for the most part. A real tuner will understand how an engine works, even a rotary one, and honestly a rotary is not particularly difficult to tune (as evidenced by the large number of do-it-yourselfers!) and any legitmate "tuner" should be able to muddle through just fine.
Where I see most people get into trouble is when they go to some "rotary guru" who uses the customers car and engine as a learning tool while claiming they know all there is to tuning a rotary (or any other) engine. Do not buy into that BS. All that really leads to is bad bad things. Find a legitimate tuner. One who can explain WTF they are doing and why. Negotiatte UP FRONT as to how extensive the "tune" will be. For some reason, many people like thier cars to start (even when cold!) idle decently, and be able to get out of its own way below full throtlle. Crazy I know, but its true. Unfortunately, drivability can be literally the longest and most neglected part of a tune. A few WOT pulls on the dyno and a half hour of street tuning is not enough. Again unfortunately, the customers budget often dictates how much time is spent on the tune. Equally unfortunately, legitimate tuners DO NOT give away thier services for free very often, but most do at least try to make the car drivable, if for no other reason than because the customer who cannot afford to actually pay for a well tuned car expects a perfectly tuned car and will badmouth the tuner until he is blue in the face when he gets exactly what he paid for.
So, find a legitimate tuner. Get a quote for the tune you actually expect to be able to live with. EXPLAIN in detail what you expect, and TRUTHFULLY answer the tuners questions about what you can and can not live with. Budget slightly more than the quote. Things happen and even if they dont, the money you budgeted but did not spend will be a nice surprise for your girlfriend.
If you have an issue with the tune and the tuner cannot resolve it to your satisfaction, ASK him the best course of action. A legit guy will likely refer you to someone else who might do better, or will spend his own time researching out a solution. Taking your car to another tuner, half-tuned or with an unresolved tuning issue is literally asking to get fucked striaght in the wallet. I can almost promise you the new tuner will say he has to start over from the beginning and work forward. And honestly, there is nothing wrong with that, I do it all the time myself, because when your tuning a car, your just about an idiot if you trust anything that you yourself did not do. You save yourself a lot of time and trouble by giving the original tuner the opportunity to make the car work, because he knows what he has done or not done.
A few other bits of advice-
Do not let "friends" or other amatuer DIY tuners play around with your car, I dont care how many people they have "helped". Its not thiers, its yours. When it blows up, they say sorry and walk away while you sweep the pieces into recycling. Obviously there are talented DIY guys out there, but by and large the ones I have run across are great in theory and "forum" knowledge but light on actual experience. Its not worth it, even when its "free".
While it is good to ask a bunch of questions on a forum and use the information given, one is always better off to work with a shop or mechanic/tuner who understands your goals and how to reach them.I cannot tell you how many cars I have seen that are never finished because the owner spends all his time reading crap on forums then just buying parts that do not work together. Listening to a bunch of nutters on a forum about what to do with your car is ok to a point, but we do not know you, your goals, your car, or much else, because we are not there. Find a shop/tuner you can work with, and work with them to reach your goals.
Mike Levitas' Turbo Performance Center (probably farther from you) is also a very good choice.
I do not buy into the "find a rotary tuner" garbage for the most part. A real tuner will understand how an engine works, even a rotary one, and honestly a rotary is not particularly difficult to tune (as evidenced by the large number of do-it-yourselfers!) and any legitmate "tuner" should be able to muddle through just fine.
Where I see most people get into trouble is when they go to some "rotary guru" who uses the customers car and engine as a learning tool while claiming they know all there is to tuning a rotary (or any other) engine. Do not buy into that BS. All that really leads to is bad bad things. Find a legitimate tuner. One who can explain WTF they are doing and why. Negotiatte UP FRONT as to how extensive the "tune" will be. For some reason, many people like thier cars to start (even when cold!) idle decently, and be able to get out of its own way below full throtlle. Crazy I know, but its true. Unfortunately, drivability can be literally the longest and most neglected part of a tune. A few WOT pulls on the dyno and a half hour of street tuning is not enough. Again unfortunately, the customers budget often dictates how much time is spent on the tune. Equally unfortunately, legitimate tuners DO NOT give away thier services for free very often, but most do at least try to make the car drivable, if for no other reason than because the customer who cannot afford to actually pay for a well tuned car expects a perfectly tuned car and will badmouth the tuner until he is blue in the face when he gets exactly what he paid for.
So, find a legitimate tuner. Get a quote for the tune you actually expect to be able to live with. EXPLAIN in detail what you expect, and TRUTHFULLY answer the tuners questions about what you can and can not live with. Budget slightly more than the quote. Things happen and even if they dont, the money you budgeted but did not spend will be a nice surprise for your girlfriend.
If you have an issue with the tune and the tuner cannot resolve it to your satisfaction, ASK him the best course of action. A legit guy will likely refer you to someone else who might do better, or will spend his own time researching out a solution. Taking your car to another tuner, half-tuned or with an unresolved tuning issue is literally asking to get fucked striaght in the wallet. I can almost promise you the new tuner will say he has to start over from the beginning and work forward. And honestly, there is nothing wrong with that, I do it all the time myself, because when your tuning a car, your just about an idiot if you trust anything that you yourself did not do. You save yourself a lot of time and trouble by giving the original tuner the opportunity to make the car work, because he knows what he has done or not done.
A few other bits of advice-
Do not let "friends" or other amatuer DIY tuners play around with your car, I dont care how many people they have "helped". Its not thiers, its yours. When it blows up, they say sorry and walk away while you sweep the pieces into recycling. Obviously there are talented DIY guys out there, but by and large the ones I have run across are great in theory and "forum" knowledge but light on actual experience. Its not worth it, even when its "free".
While it is good to ask a bunch of questions on a forum and use the information given, one is always better off to work with a shop or mechanic/tuner who understands your goals and how to reach them.I cannot tell you how many cars I have seen that are never finished because the owner spends all his time reading crap on forums then just buying parts that do not work together. Listening to a bunch of nutters on a forum about what to do with your car is ok to a point, but we do not know you, your goals, your car, or much else, because we are not there. Find a shop/tuner you can work with, and work with them to reach your goals.
11-14-10, 11:09 PM
#96
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as i mentioned, the ecus themselves dont just fail. they are as reliable as the stock units. the harnesses however, thats another thing as some you have to make, and some come with an adaptor. then its all in the tune.
oh and i forgot to mention, there is a haltech harness for the fc!!. plugs right in, and very minimal soldering if i recall correctly.
oh and i forgot to mention, there is a haltech harness for the fc!!. plugs right in, and very minimal soldering if i recall correctly.
In the past few years I have experienced the follwing ECU issues:
Haltec- E11 (I think)Internal or Firmware issue, MAP sensor would not read voltage and so no load given. Checked OEM wiring, and 4 different MAP sensors before sending it in for repair. In the meantime the cars owner bought a second Haltec. Worked perfectly. Haltec USA returned the first box with a clean bill of health and no explanation as to why it did not work.
Haltec e6 (I think) multiple issues, months spent trying to get it sorted, given a story about a "bad batch", sold and replaced with AEM EMS
Haltec "plug and play" adaptor for S5 Rx7- pins out of place. Initial feedbakc from Haltec USA was the car harness was bad or we were doing something wrong. When I traced out the bad connections we were again told it was simply a "bad batch".
Autronic- SM2, New Old Stock unit, eeprom issue, owner just replaced the ECU with I believe a DTA unit
Electaotive TEC3- ECU would randomly "fuzz out" causing the car to literally barely run, then "clear out" and car would run fine for maybe half a lap. Owner spent months tryig to figure it out, I believe he ended up just selling the car
Electramotive TEC3- ECU eeprom died at track first day of race weekend, owner had to send entire unit to Virginia for new eeprom installation,
AEM EMS- MK3 Supra unit, backfeed from short in FPR circuit damaged internal board, board replaced under warranty.
ACCEL DFI- ECU mounted in road race car, frequently shut down due to overheat condition. To get through a weekend a fan had to be installed to provide cooling air. Replaced unit with MOTEC
Holley Anihilator- Numerous coil and spark issues, replaced with MOTEC
DTA P8 PRO- bad com port, warranty replacement
And this is just what I have run across.
11-15-10, 09:59 AM
#97
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D Walker gives some good advice. It's weird that he has had so many ECU failures though, unless he has seen a hell of a lot of ECUs. 
I've tuned a lot of ECUs and never had one fail.
If they are like the muscle car people that I have had experience with, then I suggest you run as far and as fast as you can. Now all my experience may be atypical and negative, but the absolute horse **** I have seen some of these people qualify as a "tuned car" makes me throw up in my mouth a little. Even from international, well known and multi-million dollar companies that are well respected and sell their stuff through the local car dealerships.
If you are are going to use one of these people, ask to drive a car that they have tuned. Get in it first thing in the morning and start it up. How well did that go? Then run for a minute, shut down and restart. Still OK? Any smoke? Now drive part and mid throttle while the vehicle is still warming up...Then decel and see if it dumps fuel. Go from idle to WOT in neutral and make sure it doesn't stumble, etc. etc.
I've tuned a lot of ECUs and never had one fail.If you are are going to use one of these people, ask to drive a car that they have tuned. Get in it first thing in the morning and start it up. How well did that go? Then run for a minute, shut down and restart. Still OK? Any smoke? Now drive part and mid throttle while the vehicle is still warming up...Then decel and see if it dumps fuel. Go from idle to WOT in neutral and make sure it doesn't stumble, etc. etc.
11-15-10, 10:31 AM
#98
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If it means anything, in my shop currently there are (installed):
2 AEM FD EMS
2 AEM MK4 Supra EMS (one is in a MK3 1JZGTE
)
1 AEM EVO 8
1 AEM S2 3KGT
1 AEM S2 Nissan SR20
1 AEM EMS Nissan SR20
3 AEM EMS 2G DSM (forgot one)
1 AEM EMS 1G DSM
1 Apexi PowerFC, 2G DSM
1 Apexi Power FC, EVO8
1 DTA P8 PRO, Currently configured for Porsche 3.5litre TT
1 Haltec PS in FC RX7
There are also a MAP ECU in an MG Midget/4AGE 20V car, etc., and an STI 06 DBW car was just delivered.
Cheers,
Don
2 AEM FD EMS
2 AEM MK4 Supra EMS (one is in a MK3 1JZGTE
)1 AEM EVO 8
1 AEM S2 3KGT
1 AEM S2 Nissan SR20
1 AEM EMS Nissan SR20
3 AEM EMS 2G DSM (forgot one)
1 AEM EMS 1G DSM
1 Apexi PowerFC, 2G DSM
1 Apexi Power FC, EVO8
1 DTA P8 PRO, Currently configured for Porsche 3.5litre TT
1 Haltec PS in FC RX7
There are also a MAP ECU in an MG Midget/4AGE 20V car, etc., and an STI 06 DBW car was just delivered.
Cheers,
Don
