General Questions
09-24-11, 07:47 PM
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General Questions
Yes I have read through all of the FAQ list. I have also read lots more and watched the entire video from someone on this forum on rebuilding a 12a i think it was. Lots of good information. However I just want to fill some gaps here.
My story: Looking to buy a rx7 and either do a t2 swap or just buy a t2. This will happen soon probably this month.
What I want: 300whp.
What I understand: I understand that the stock t2 engine makes around 205 hp. factory. So 300 isn't really that far off. I've understand that porting the rotary engines gives a significant power boost. I have some pretty good general understanding of what you need for turbo like fuel supply and that thing.
So my real questions are this: How much horse will a stock t2 engine make RELIABLY given that it is well taken care of, and of course all the supporting mods?. What should I look for when buying a t2 rx7? What kind of port is recommended for someone who is looking for good power but not racing in formula 1. If I were to rebuild a 13b T, what kind of internals would you guys recommend to someone who isn't looking to spend 10k on a full built race engine? Do you guys have links to a decent rotary rebuild DVD (This is something I really want to learn)?
Well I guess those are the only questions I can think of right now. I know it's a lot to cover and I've read little snippits of them but if someone could elaborate that would be great. The question I want answered most is how much HP will a well maintained 13b T hold RELIABLY.
Thanks guys, I know it's a lot but I really appreciate all the input I can get.
My story: Looking to buy a rx7 and either do a t2 swap or just buy a t2. This will happen soon probably this month.
What I want: 300whp.
What I understand: I understand that the stock t2 engine makes around 205 hp. factory. So 300 isn't really that far off. I've understand that porting the rotary engines gives a significant power boost. I have some pretty good general understanding of what you need for turbo like fuel supply and that thing.
So my real questions are this: How much horse will a stock t2 engine make RELIABLY given that it is well taken care of, and of course all the supporting mods?. What should I look for when buying a t2 rx7? What kind of port is recommended for someone who is looking for good power but not racing in formula 1. If I were to rebuild a 13b T, what kind of internals would you guys recommend to someone who isn't looking to spend 10k on a full built race engine? Do you guys have links to a decent rotary rebuild DVD (This is something I really want to learn)?
Well I guess those are the only questions I can think of right now. I know it's a lot to cover and I've read little snippits of them but if someone could elaborate that would be great. The question I want answered most is how much HP will a well maintained 13b T hold RELIABLY.
Thanks guys, I know it's a lot but I really appreciate all the input I can get.
09-24-11, 08:08 PM
#2
S4 is the most common turbo engine, S5s are fairly scarce especially complete for a reasonable price.
the S4 turbo engine had 186 brake horsepower at the FLYWHEEL which translates to about 160 wheel horsepower. when regarding horsepower these days, beyond the factory it is in terms of WHEEL HORSEPOWER or whp of which the S4 needs almost twice as much hp to meet your goal. 300 wheel horsepower requires fuel mods, larger turbo and a way to control fuel control, aka a piggyback ECU or standalone ECU. as well as handfuls of other upgrades to the intake and exhaust system.
reliably a later model 13B engine should hold nearly 400 wheel horsepower before needing to upgrade anything internally, such as portwork, stat gears and dowel pinning. a few people have scrounged over 500 wheel horsepower from these engines without any modification whatsoever, but reliably would be a stretch. generally higher horsepower engines fail due to tuning inconsistencies which arise from fuel systems that degrade over time causing the tune to be out of its original perameters, causing lean conditions. the more power you make the more the fuel system needs to be checked and rechecked periodically and serviced.
the S4 turbo engine had 186 brake horsepower at the FLYWHEEL which translates to about 160 wheel horsepower. when regarding horsepower these days, beyond the factory it is in terms of WHEEL HORSEPOWER or whp of which the S4 needs almost twice as much hp to meet your goal. 300 wheel horsepower requires fuel mods, larger turbo and a way to control fuel control, aka a piggyback ECU or standalone ECU. as well as handfuls of other upgrades to the intake and exhaust system.
reliably a later model 13B engine should hold nearly 400 wheel horsepower before needing to upgrade anything internally, such as portwork, stat gears and dowel pinning. a few people have scrounged over 500 wheel horsepower from these engines without any modification whatsoever, but reliably would be a stretch. generally higher horsepower engines fail due to tuning inconsistencies which arise from fuel systems that degrade over time causing the tune to be out of its original perameters, causing lean conditions. the more power you make the more the fuel system needs to be checked and rechecked periodically and serviced.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 09-24-11 at 08:12 PM.
09-24-11, 08:17 PM
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Well here's my .02 your looking about 340-350 hp out of the engine given drivetrain losses. Reliably I feel that's a realistic number but in order to do so its gonna cost a bit. Id think a well built streetport, pump, injectors, stage 4 turbo from bar, racing beat turbo back exhaust, fmic, and a standalone with a good tune, clutch, turbo inlet duct, and a few gauges, radiator upgrade, and you could be set for a reliable 300 whp car. These cars are on in age so plan for all new hoses belts fluids and brakes. The biggest part is gonna be getting a good tune, with a safe fuel supply. Rewire the fuel pump also. Search on these forums and find what others have done. As for a rebuild video pineapple racing makes a great one and you can even find a bit of it online if you search.
09-24-11, 08:20 PM
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thank you for that information that was very helpful. Just out of curiosity what kind of internal upgrades would be needed past 400 hp? And what costs would be involved?
09-24-11, 08:27 PM
#5
the S4 and USDM S5 rear iron dowel pin boss is a weak point when pushing much past 400 wheel horsepower so it is a crap shoot if the engine will survive for long after that point. so shooting for ~500whp or higher i recomming pinning these motors.
the stock 3 piece apex seals should also be replaced with 2 piece units, OEM or aftermarket there are many choices and each has their benefits and drawbacks.
pinning runs about $300-500 depending on who does it, on top of the cost of the rebuilt engine, as it needs to be torn apart to do it.
3mm apex seals are also a bit more stout for handling higher power levels and taking more abuse in the tune before giving up. this requires milling the rotors to accept the larger seals, milling runs $300-500 also, on top of the additional cost of the larger seals(in some cases the seals cost the same, not the OEM ones though as they cost about $100 more than 2mm).
most people upgrade to the RX8 stationary gears due to their superior hardening process. cost is about $400 for the upgraded gears.
on top of all that you have the basic rebuild costs which start at about $1400 for even the cheapest rebuilders.
the stock 3 piece apex seals should also be replaced with 2 piece units, OEM or aftermarket there are many choices and each has their benefits and drawbacks.
pinning runs about $300-500 depending on who does it, on top of the cost of the rebuilt engine, as it needs to be torn apart to do it.
3mm apex seals are also a bit more stout for handling higher power levels and taking more abuse in the tune before giving up. this requires milling the rotors to accept the larger seals, milling runs $300-500 also, on top of the additional cost of the larger seals(in some cases the seals cost the same, not the OEM ones though as they cost about $100 more than 2mm).
most people upgrade to the RX8 stationary gears due to their superior hardening process. cost is about $400 for the upgraded gears.
on top of all that you have the basic rebuild costs which start at about $1400 for even the cheapest rebuilders.
09-24-11, 08:46 PM
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Ok well I'm never planning on going up to or above 400 HP. 300 would be great though.
What are some of the things you should look out for when buying a t2?
I heard about the compression tests how they have 3 readings. But are there any other good tests to see how a motor is internally before buying?
What are some of the things you should look out for when buying a t2?
I heard about the compression tests how they have 3 readings. But are there any other good tests to see how a motor is internally before buying?
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09-24-11, 09:05 PM
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https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showpo...80&postcount=6
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/FM2W/power.htm
09-24-11, 10:02 PM
#9
^ op read the faqs
just want assurance.
300 wheel horse power is attainable with bolts on really, no need to rebuild unless the engine is really in need of one which can be determine with a compression test and making sure the coolant seals are not blown. Also rewiring the fuel pump is a good first start. As for exhaust, theres tons out there, just depends on if you want it to be quiet or loud.
A BNR stage 2-3, 4x 720 injectors, a high flowing fuel pump like a walbro 255l high pressure, and a standalone ecu or a plug and play one like Rtek to control timing and fuel. fc3sdrift did over 300 hp with a chipped ecu and a safc to control fuel.
Though it also depends on if its a n/a to turbo conversion or if its already a TII fc. theres other issues such as the drivetrain.
For less headaches, try and buy a TII or a completed turbo swapped fc with the entire turbo drivetrain and that its actually running.
just want assurance.
300 wheel horse power is attainable with bolts on really, no need to rebuild unless the engine is really in need of one which can be determine with a compression test and making sure the coolant seals are not blown. Also rewiring the fuel pump is a good first start. As for exhaust, theres tons out there, just depends on if you want it to be quiet or loud.
A BNR stage 2-3, 4x 720 injectors, a high flowing fuel pump like a walbro 255l high pressure, and a standalone ecu or a plug and play one like Rtek to control timing and fuel. fc3sdrift did over 300 hp with a chipped ecu and a safc to control fuel.
Though it also depends on if its a n/a to turbo conversion or if its already a TII fc. theres other issues such as the drivetrain.
For less headaches, try and buy a TII or a completed turbo swapped fc with the entire turbo drivetrain and that its actually running.
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