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I jumped the 2 Pin green connector, from orange wire to black wire and turned KeyON, but same result with the LED tester, lit for 3 seconds when first turned on then never blinked again. Also tried turning KeyON first then jumping it but never got the LEDs to do anything but the initial light up. I did noticed that with the key off the orange wire has continuity with ground, but with KeyON it does not, black wire has continuity with ground with KeyON and KeyOFF so it was for sure grounded.
At the ECU I tested Pins 1N, 1P, 1Q, and 1T for voltage and resistance to ground with the CAS in and out of the engine with the KeyON.
Voltage to all pins never changed, this matches what the FSM shows – Below 1.0V at KeyON and idle
Resistance to ground for all pins was ~17.70 M Ohms, at Pins 1N and 1T the resistance dropped and spiked as the CAS spun, either by hand or from turning over the engine by hand. This range was from ~14.40 M Ohms to ~19.10 M Ohms.
Nothing changed as far as whether the CAS was in or out of the engine. So, if the CAS is sending the same signals to the ECU then the ECU isn’t sending that signal to the Injectors or the injectors are receiving the signal that was sent. But that changes when you pull the CAS off the gear it meshes with, which has nothing to do with the signal from the ECU to the Injectors then they work. But grounding the CAS has no effect on that signal either.
Is there anything within the front cover that receives power or has some sort of electrical circuit? I only replaced the front main seal I didn’t take the cover off, is there like an electrical component inside there? I thought it was all mechanical: chains, gears, etc. I wonder if the gear the CAS meshes with is getting energized or something and that’s somehow screwing things up.
It may be because you aren't shooting codes. Try again with AFM unplugged, You should get a code 08 or 09 .. i forget. If you get a code then you know that you're not spitting codes. If you don't get a code something is wrong.
Is your engine a US engine or jdm?
There is nothing in the front case that's electrical. I was thinking maybe you have a wire inside the CAS that has worn insulation off of itself and grounding to the case. Or maybe one of the coils is somehow grounding itself.
Last edited by Rotary Alkymist; 03-18-18 at 03:41 PM.
With AFM unplugged it immediately threw a Code 04, which is the intake temp sensor in the AFM. And with it plugged back in no codes were thrown.
From what I know it's all the original parts of the car, so I can only assume USDM.
With ECU Plug #1 unplugged I tested pins 1N, 1P, 1Q, and 1T for continuity with ground with the CAS plugged in and installed in the engine and with the KeyON. None of the pins had continuity with the negative post.
So no codes then and it works, that's good. No CAS errors. Ah true forgot your s4. I was thinking s5 codes. Can you see the shielding around N,P,Q,T? It's a braided shield around those four wires. Is it visible? If so is it grounded? If not, or if you see resistance, ground it and see if that fixes anything. The one great thing about this whole mess is you're learning a **** ton about the car . You won't even need the diagrams at a certain point haha.
Last edited by Rotary Alkymist; 03-18-18 at 11:01 PM.
Another thing you should try is taking a voltage reading 3C and 3E while cranking. They should both be lower than 12v, like 8 ish. If your injectors aren't firing then you should see 12v constantly while cranking. It would be good to know that the injectors are definitely not working.
Last edited by Rotary Alkymist; 03-19-18 at 12:27 AM.
So I tested a working CAS today for common points and the gear tested to have continuity with the casing of CAS. So the gear isn't doing anything funky. Need to know if 3C and 3E are dropping volts during cranking. I Look forward to the results of that test.
Last edited by Rotary Alkymist; 03-19-18 at 10:38 AM.
So I torn back into the Engine harness, the shielded wire around the CAS wires is still intact, tested and it is grounded through a B/W wire from one of the 6 pin connectors that goes to the front harness. It's an unstable resistance though, jumps constantly between 15-35 Ohms
While cranking 3C and 3E don't change voltage with the CAS installed but do change when the CAS is out and turned by hand, not down to 8 but it does drop the faster you spin it.
So they are indeed working with CAS out and not with CAS in. Man, that is the weirdest ****. I'm trying to wrap my head around it. It has to be a wiring issue. I'd say with all the wiring that has been done to it... it's really hard to say at this point. I'm gonna think about it more. 30 ohms is still resistance for some reason. I know a 30 ohm reading would be unacceptable for me on any wire. I'm not sure if that would cause this voodoo. There has to be an anomaly somewhere. You were saying there were other electrical issues too like the hazards and whatnot.
I read somewhere that someone had luck when they grounded the braided shield to the engine somehow. You could try that. Is your spark disappearing as well? Is G/Y wire at leading coil jumping 0-5-0-5V with CAS in? Not sure if that'll help. I would remove the extra ground that you ran to 2C.
I'm about out of ideas except to swap ECU or CAS or both and see if the problem persists. You said you have an extra ECU? It would suck to buy a CAS for nothing. If I had to put money on it I'd say your CAS is good and will be good forever but hard to say with just one CAS. If problem persists the wiring must be closely examined and tested for any anomalies.
Last edited by Rotary Alkymist; 03-20-18 at 01:09 AM.
I ended up pulling the dash out again tonight to fix the other issue first, I have some continuity between wires and grounds that shouldn't be there so hopefully that will fix all my issues, haha. But it'll also make chasing this problem easier to do through the front harness. We'll see how long it takes me to get through this, hopefully the issue is out in the open and I don't have to pull the front harness completely out again.
So when you try to connect two connectors that don't quite reach one another, look for another connector that looks exactly the same, cause chances are that's not where it belongs.
When I hooked the dash back up I ended up plugging the logicon connector into the Anti-Theft Control Unit connector on the front harness, instead of the logicon connector on the front harness. About to throw the engine back together but this does help explain some of the mystery I've been having. Even though I didn't have the anti-theft control unit i still had the connector on the front harness, this harness is the exact same fit as the logicon one, didn't feel right that I had to unmount it and pull it across the car to try and get them hooked together. Weird though as my logicon worked perfectly haha, blower turned on, defrosters, face and foot vents.
Gonna put the engine back together and try and start it.
Although that has fixed my other issues with the car, it has not fixed the CAS not firing the injectors. Going to look for another CAS, tried getting a hold of someone local through groups to try and swap parts with for testing but so far no luck. Not a single other thing I can think of at the moment.
How are you ensuring yourself that the harness is OK? I'm sure you tested for continuity but did you test let's say, wire A, to see if it has continuity with every other wire? Then wire B and check it has continuity with every other wire? I'm still convinced it is a wiring issue. I do agree that having a CAS would help deduce it to a wiring issue. Or there is a slim chance it is the CAS. Good luck with the CAS hunt man.
When unplugged from both ECU and CAS = no wire has continuity with one another.
CAS only plugged in = G and L (G wires) have continuity and R and W (Ne wires) have continuity. both sitting around 165 Ohms of resistance, which is between the FSM ranges for a good CAS (110-220ohms).
CAS to ECU connectors are good with 0.0 resistance on the same wires, so L at the CAS connector and L at ECU connector are good. And no wires are grounded when unplugged from the ECU, ECU is the only thing that gives both continuity to ground and other wires out side of G and Ne wires.
I think at this point your best bet is to swap all logical configurations:
ECU/ CAS/Both CAS and ECU and see if the problem is still there. This will lead to a some amount of closure lol. It will reveal some kind of answer to this madness.
You'll either see the problem disappear or it won't. So it's either ECU, CAS, both CAS and ECU, or wiring, guaranteed. I can't imagine that an ECU and CAS would be toast but it is one of the few possibilities, logically speaking.
Last edited by Rotary Alkymist; 03-28-18 at 07:16 PM.
Good news is I now have fuel, with the stock CAS and ECU somehow I have fuel now when the engine turns/cranks. Only thing I can really come to a conclusion on with that is I unplugged and plugged a lot of stuff in, maybe something tripped it or maybe it was me unplugging the connector from the Anti-Theft connector and just didn't test thoroughly enough, honestly I can't say and that is so frustrating.
Bad news is I now don't have spark on my leading coils, and yes it happened at the exact same time as the fuel starting to work. So my issue has completely flipped (had spark no fuel, now have fuel but no spark). Now I sometimes get spark from the leading coil, but once I do it doesn't come back, this is with me testing in the engine bay turning the engine over by hand, plug wires laying on shock tower. If i let the car sit and go back out to test I might get them to spark 2-3 times, but once they stop they don't come back. So i'm getting the signal from the CAS/ECU to fire the coil, then it's disappearing. I have 12V at B/Y and I have varying voltage at the G/Y wire as well. Shows seems to spike more when I spin the engine faster by hand, but again once I have spark it doesn't want to come back.
Trailing coil fire just fine, I've had several fire ***** coming out of the plug holes where the Leading plugs have been taken out of, so fuel is still good but leading coil spark is not there/constant enough.
So swapped ECUs and seem to have gotten spark at the leading coil back and consistent, however when I first got it back my starter wouldn't engage but does now, no idea there. Seems like I have fuel as well cause with the trailing plugs still in place I get fireballs coming out of the leading plug holes. However the car will not start still, I'm finding it weird that I can rotate the engine by hand, without what seems like any resistance with everything in place. Trailing and leading plugs, header, intake. Is it supposed to be that easy to spin by hand? I'm used to piston engine where you get locked up on a compression stroke if just free spinning the engine at the crank (on a really tight engine that is). This to me seems like a problem and if I am getting fireballs out of each housing (alternating between front and back) then I should be good to start the engine. I know of flooding issues but spinning freely by hand seems like more than flooding. Could I be dealing with a totally shot engine? Seems like I'm having electrical issues on top of that though.
Oh I guess to be clear about that I'm not trying to start the car with the leading plugs out of the engine haha. That is when I'm spinning the engine by hand testing for spark on the leading coils I'm getting fireballs from the trailing coils igniting the fuel in the rotor housing.
Just wondered if there should be any resistance when spinning by hand with everything installed cause seems like if not then I'm not building the right compression but this is something I don't know for sure.
So if leading coils are pulled and I spin the engine with KeyON by hand I get fireballs out of the leading plug holes.
If trailing coils are pulled and I spin the engine with KeyON by hand I get loud bursts of air/fuel out of the trailing plug holes and get backfire out of the exhaust (very loud pops)
Did the complex unflooding procedure today, pulled plugs, and inner most fuse from engine fuse block and cranked for 15 seconds with pedal to the floor. Then did about half an ounce of ATF in each housing, then put everything back together but still no start. Also tried push starting the car today as well. It tried but died immediately, could not get RPM to come up at all. Tried giving some throttle once popped clutch but engine did not respond at all. Smokes like crazy (white smoke) but from what I read should smoke white after complex unflooding procedure.
But my results were worse than the dead rotor in the video, never showed a pulse above 20PSI, on all faces on both rotors. Now I know it's a cold engine, But I did a full unflooding procedure, including the ATF into the rotor housings before this test so it's not a dry engine.
So full rebuilds are looking to be about 2000 dollars factoring in shipping and any tools that may be needed. Then it's the time it takes to actual do the rebuild, but pretty proficient when it comes to engine work so really not worried about that BUT...would it be worth getting a running engine from someone else? Or is a rebuild the best option in the case that my engine is toast inside. Of course if the actual rotors or housings are toast then that 2000 is a dream because it begins to grow rapidly at that point. I'm literally just looking for a driving status with this car, I have no desire to modify the engine, I just want to street drive and some autocross.
03-17-18, 09:07 PM
. You won't even need the diagrams at a certain point haha.
