Fuel Injectors
01-10-03, 10:16 AM
#1
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Fuel Injectors
Okay, I've been trying to get this rotary started and tried very many things. Now I'm wondering if the computer shuts off the injectors if the car is floored when trying to start? I know my Taurus S.H.O. does this and it brought my attention to the RX-7. Any ideas? TIA.
01-10-03, 01:58 PM
#2
The computer does not shut off the injectors when the car is flooded. In order in unflood the car you must pull the fuse under the hood that provides power to the fuel pump and then crank the motor till she fires.
Then replace the fuse and fire her up again.
Or you can install a fuel pump cut off switch in line with the fuel pump wiring as I have done.
Then replace the fuse and fire her up again.
Or you can install a fuel pump cut off switch in line with the fuel pump wiring as I have done.
01-10-03, 02:01 PM
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No, not flooded. I was saying when you go to start it and floor the pedal to see if it helps. I've already unflooded the car. I was asking if when the gas is floored upon trying to start, will it send a message to the computer to shut the injectors off like my SHO.
01-10-03, 02:38 PM
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had/have a similar prob myself, consider the following but you may need to post more info as to when last started or if it doesnt start all time or whatever, anyway consider following...
crank for a while then take out and look at plugs. some indication of flooding there.
Also, and peeps correct me if wrong, but on UK model in addition to other fuses under bonnet eg main etc there is a btn fuse, which allegedly stands for back to normal!! if car wont start, pull btn, start car, starts and dies, refit btn, car starts normally! something about ecu being confused or something, cheers to tim of rxmotors for this tip after roadside trauma!!
does car start ok when warm? has it been started whilst you owned it, or recently? some good people on this forum who can help but must have info...
hope this helps anyhow...
crank for a while then take out and look at plugs. some indication of flooding there.
Also, and peeps correct me if wrong, but on UK model in addition to other fuses under bonnet eg main etc there is a btn fuse, which allegedly stands for back to normal!! if car wont start, pull btn, start car, starts and dies, refit btn, car starts normally! something about ecu being confused or something, cheers to tim of rxmotors for this tip after roadside trauma!!
does car start ok when warm? has it been started whilst you owned it, or recently? some good people on this forum who can help but must have info...
hope this helps anyhow...
01-10-03, 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by RX7-88
No, not flooded. I was saying when you go to start it and floor the pedal to see if it helps. I've already unflooded the car. I was asking if when the gas is floored upon trying to start, will it send a message to the computer to shut the injectors off like my SHO.
No, not flooded. I was saying when you go to start it and floor the pedal to see if it helps. I've already unflooded the car. I was asking if when the gas is floored upon trying to start, will it send a message to the computer to shut the injectors off like my SHO.
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01-10-03, 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by RX7-88
Junior-c, if that's so how would you get them to come back on?
Junior-c, if that's so how would you get them to come back on?
Doing that doesn't shut off the injectors FOREVER.
Try this to test your injectors...
Originally posted by hypntyz7
check fuel and fuel injectors/wiring. I do this by removing the upper intake, wiring the primary injectors to their rail, and cranking the car over with a pan of some sort under the injectors (now sticking partially up in the air) to watch for spray from both injectors. There is no way to check teh 2ndaries, other than getting the engine running and applying power to one of them and seeing if the engine drops rpm/dies (from being rich).
check fuel and fuel injectors/wiring. I do this by removing the upper intake, wiring the primary injectors to their rail, and cranking the car over with a pan of some sort under the injectors (now sticking partially up in the air) to watch for spray from both injectors. There is no way to check teh 2ndaries, other than getting the engine running and applying power to one of them and seeing if the engine drops rpm/dies (from being rich).
01-10-03, 06:51 PM
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Uhh....I think I'll check the pump first to see if it's getting any gas up to the motor. 
Oh yeah, I'll try new plugs to and if it fails it will look like I'll be posting again about this crazy rotory that I never had the chance to drive yet. Hell why pass a deal for $500 and the body and interior are in EXCELLENT condition and the only problem was after a motor wash it stopped working the next day when went to try to start it. I didn't let it go and I know that's what happened because it was a friends and he had to move and couldn't take the car and also had no keys because he lost them, but now we got some from the dealer and trying like hell to get this little thing started.
Oh yeah, I'll try new plugs to and if it fails it will look like I'll be posting again about this crazy rotory that I never had the chance to drive yet. Hell why pass a deal for $500 and the body and interior are in EXCELLENT condition and the only problem was after a motor wash it stopped working the next day when went to try to start it. I didn't let it go and I know that's what happened because it was a friends and he had to move and couldn't take the car and also had no keys because he lost them, but now we got some from the dealer and trying like hell to get this little thing started.
01-10-03, 07:12 PM
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An engine wash?
Have you gone over all of the wiring and connections on the motor to see that everything's snug and where it should be?
The neoprene vac lines on our 7s deteriorate over time and the engine wash may have damaged one or more of them. This may be contributing to your problems.
Would you describe just what you do when you go to start it, and also exactly what the car does? Hard-starting 7s are far from a rarity, so there are lots of people around with similar experiences who can help you.
Have you gone over all of the wiring and connections on the motor to see that everything's snug and where it should be?
The neoprene vac lines on our 7s deteriorate over time and the engine wash may have damaged one or more of them. This may be contributing to your problems.
Would you describe just what you do when you go to start it, and also exactly what the car does? Hard-starting 7s are far from a rarity, so there are lots of people around with similar experiences who can help you.
01-10-03, 07:31 PM
#12
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Well when I go to start it, it just cranks and acts like it wants to start. I have took a peek around about wires and things but I'm unaware of what the neoprene vac lines are. This motor is new to me, the only motor I work on is my YAMAHA in my Taurus SHO.
01-10-03, 07:49 PM
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lol.....I don't wanna look that damn poor, pushing a RX-7 down the street and also if it doesn't start, OMG. That would be a embarrasing moment...
01-10-03, 08:09 PM
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All of the vac lines are Neoprene, unless a previous owner put in newer Neoprene or silicone (even better.)
http://fc3s-pro.com/TECH/PROBLEMS/EM/vhoses.htm
http://rx7.voodoobox.net/howto/vachose/vacjob.html
(I think that this write-up is meant for FDs, but most of the 411 is still relevent to FCs.)
There are ways of testing for and locating vac leaks, but you need to have the motor running first.
-----------------
Okay, you need 3 things for the motor to run. Spark, fuel and compression...
First question that comes to mind is, is it flooding?
After trying to start the car:
* can you smell gas out of either exhaust pipe?
* pull the spark plugs - are they soaked in gas?
If the answer to both is yes, especially the 2nd question, you have a flooding problem. The good news is, this isn't a terminal condition. But first let's check some other things...
Is there spark?
Fuel?
Find the fuel line that goes from the top of the fuel filter to the engine. It will go into a steel line sitting a few inches ahead of the oil filler neck. Pull the hose off of this line and stick it in a clean coffee cup or a bottle or whatever's handy to catch the gas that we hope will come out. Have someone crank the car for just one second. If gas (a good shot of it) doesn't come out of the hose, then either your fuel filter is clogged, your fuel lines from the tank may be clogged (unlikely - never heard of it happening b4) or your fuel pump isn't working properly (dead or not getting power.)
Compression?
Best thing to do is use a compression tester. Since the engine has been sitting for a long time, don't expect the numbers to clock in too high, say around 70 psi (don't be discouraged - if the engine's ok then the numbers will go up. )
Anyway, first priority should be to check if the engine is flooding. Check it out and come back. If you can check for spark and fuel, too, great. If not, come back and we'll go from there.
http://fc3s-pro.com/TECH/PROBLEMS/EM/vhoses.htm
http://rx7.voodoobox.net/howto/vachose/vacjob.html
(I think that this write-up is meant for FDs, but most of the 411 is still relevent to FCs.)
There are ways of testing for and locating vac leaks, but you need to have the motor running first.
-----------------
Okay, you need 3 things for the motor to run. Spark, fuel and compression...
First question that comes to mind is, is it flooding?
After trying to start the car:
* can you smell gas out of either exhaust pipe?
* pull the spark plugs - are they soaked in gas?
If the answer to both is yes, especially the 2nd question, you have a flooding problem. The good news is, this isn't a terminal condition.
But first let's check some other things...Is there spark?
Originally posted by HAILERS
Pull the [spark] plugs out. Place the spark plug wires near the chassis and then spin the engine.
Pull the [spark] plugs out. Place the spark plug wires near the chassis and then spin the engine.
Find the fuel line that goes from the top of the fuel filter to the engine. It will go into a steel line sitting a few inches ahead of the oil filler neck. Pull the hose off of this line and stick it in a clean coffee cup or a bottle or whatever's handy to catch the gas that we hope will come out. Have someone crank the car for just one second. If gas (a good shot of it) doesn't come out of the hose, then either your fuel filter is clogged, your fuel lines from the tank may be clogged (unlikely - never heard of it happening b4) or your fuel pump isn't working properly (dead or not getting power.)
Compression?
Best thing to do is use a compression tester. Since the engine has been sitting for a long time, don't expect the numbers to clock in too high, say around 70 psi (don't be discouraged - if the engine's ok then the numbers will go up.
)Anyway, first priority should be to check if the engine is flooding. Check it out and come back. If you can check for spark and fuel, too, great. If not, come back and we'll go from there.
Last edited by Amur_; 01-10-03 at 08:12 PM.
01-10-03, 08:27 PM
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Okay, there's spark and about compression, I don't know. When I took the plugs out to unflood it was pushing a lot of air out that you could feel it by the drivers front wheel. Could this be a sign of good pressure? I was thinking of the fuel thing but didn't know it was that easy, so I'll be trying that this weekend or so. Thanks for all the help and if I still can't get it started I'll post back as "won't start part III" since I have two already and this fuel pressure one.
01-10-03, 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by RX7-88
When I took the plugs out to unflood it was pushing a lot of air out that you could feel it by the drivers front wheel.
When I took the plugs out to unflood it was pushing a lot of air out that you could feel it by the drivers front wheel.
Are you saying that after pulling some of the plugs you had someone crank the engine? How were the plugs? Soaked with/stinking of gas? And are they new plugs or did they come with the engine?
01-10-03, 09:11 PM
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They came when I purchased the car from the recent owner. The plugs where'nt soaked in anything for those 2 years of sitting. The plugs had some like carbon build up on them but took it off and still no luck. I'm thinking of getting a set of plugs anyway, but first I'm going to check the free inspection of gas instead of buying plugs and it comes to be not the problem.
01-11-03, 06:22 AM
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good luck with it, when i bought my n/a 86 it had been stood 3 yrs, put a fresh battery on, spun with pump fuse out to lube engine first then fuse in and voila, started first time, course when you've got it started that's when the probs really start..
what about the fuel? is it what was in the car 3 yrs ago? is it nearly empty? old fuel sat in a tank full of air tends to 'go off' a bit and lose octane, especially modern fuels that start life in the **** poor octane range anyway, when working with motorbikes we found that more 'highly strung' bikes wouldn't start if stood long time till fuel removed and replaced, not knowledgeable on US fuel but ours is pissy, guess this will get worse as well but i digress, new fuel good old fuel bad...
what about the fuel? is it what was in the car 3 yrs ago? is it nearly empty? old fuel sat in a tank full of air tends to 'go off' a bit and lose octane, especially modern fuels that start life in the **** poor octane range anyway, when working with motorbikes we found that more 'highly strung' bikes wouldn't start if stood long time till fuel removed and replaced, not knowledgeable on US fuel but ours is pissy, guess this will get worse as well but i digress, new fuel good old fuel bad...
01-11-03, 11:22 AM
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Minor point but as stated in other posts, 2 year old sitting gas is simply no good. Over time it will develop a varnish like compound and ends up fouling lines, filters, and poor starting. That's one reason why lawn mowers should be drained of gas over the winter.
Suggest you consider draining gas tank, flushing gas line from tank to fuel filter with injector cleaner to remove gum and changing the fuel filter.
Simple and cheap maintenance but may help with starting.
Good luck!
Suggest you consider draining gas tank, flushing gas line from tank to fuel filter with injector cleaner to remove gum and changing the fuel filter.
Simple and cheap maintenance but may help with starting.
Good luck!
01-11-03, 04:39 PM
#21
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Thanks for the all the help. The was no fuel in the car and new fuel was put it, so thats not the case.
Last night I got the car running after replacing the fuel pump. Can't hurt putting one in when you get it free from a mechanic friend.
Last night I got the car running after replacing the fuel pump. Can't hurt putting one in when you get it free from a mechanic friend.
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