FORD 80mm MAF conversion, has it been done?
07-31-05, 05:46 AM
#54
Thats not an FC...
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hey, remember this?
so it seems that the voltage output of the 5.0 AFM is inverse of the voltage output of the stock FC AFM's... there would need to be some sort of black box required to convert the voltage signal into the proper range that the FC ECU would recognize.
0-5v seems to be the operating range of both the AFM's... but 0 volts means different things to each ECU. 0 volts may be WOT airflow on the RX7 but could mean engine off/key on for the mustang. its possible to create a translator to invert the voltage signal and the trim it with an SAFC. but youd also need to create provisions for the IAT and such that are integrated into the stock FC AFM.
ive got alot of mustang friends now, so maybe i can borrow their car and take voltage readings from their MAF's while the car is off/key on, idling and revving. that way i can get an idea of what the voltage slope is like in relation to the car's operation. then i can test my S5's sliding cone AFM voltage output during the same conditons and compare the 2. if they are infact inverse of eachother, then we/i would need to employ someone who could design a voltage inverter or figure out a way to create one myself. if i create it myself, ill patent that ************ and sell it for $200 a piece... and you guys could use a Hotwire MAF and flow almost as well as a VPC/MAP based system for a fraction of the price...
so it seems that the voltage output of the 5.0 AFM is inverse of the voltage output of the stock FC AFM's... there would need to be some sort of black box required to convert the voltage signal into the proper range that the FC ECU would recognize.
0-5v seems to be the operating range of both the AFM's... but 0 volts means different things to each ECU. 0 volts may be WOT airflow on the RX7 but could mean engine off/key on for the mustang. its possible to create a translator to invert the voltage signal and the trim it with an SAFC. but youd also need to create provisions for the IAT and such that are integrated into the stock FC AFM.
ive got alot of mustang friends now, so maybe i can borrow their car and take voltage readings from their MAF's while the car is off/key on, idling and revving. that way i can get an idea of what the voltage slope is like in relation to the car's operation. then i can test my S5's sliding cone AFM voltage output during the same conditons and compare the 2. if they are infact inverse of eachother, then we/i would need to employ someone who could design a voltage inverter or figure out a way to create one myself. if i create it myself, ill patent that ************ and sell it for $200 a piece... and you guys could use a Hotwire MAF and flow almost as well as a VPC/MAP based system for a fraction of the price...
07-31-05, 12:12 PM
#55
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Coming from the tbird club, the MAFS swap is a BIG swap and will net a good 20 HP gain if done with a tune.
The reason a bigger MAFS is better is because it maps quicker and has a higher load setting, if you get one too big it won't be accurate so you have to keep the size down unless you're always flowing LARGE amounts of air.
- Tech
The reason a bigger MAFS is better is because it maps quicker and has a higher load setting, if you get one too big it won't be accurate so you have to keep the size down unless you're always flowing LARGE amounts of air.
- Tech
07-31-05, 01:56 PM
#57
Originally Posted by Evil Aviator
My Ford F-150 has only 20k mi on it, and it has been to the dealership TWICE because the MAF sensor failed.
The first time, the morons at the shop tried to tell me that my K&N filter made it fail. They replaced it under warranty, but gave me a hard time about it. I'm sure that anybody here that has seen my posts KNOWS that I gave them a hard time back.
The second time, I got a fantastic mechanic working on it, and he was honest enough to say that he didn't really know what the problem was because it had some really strange error codes on the ECU, but he reset it, drove it around for reprogramming, and told me to take it back in if I have any more problems.
I have never had a problem with a 2Gen MAF in 13 years. I have no idea why anyone would want to use a Ford MAF, which IMO would be as stupid as replacing the 13B with a Yugo engine. If you want an upgrade that gets rid of the Mazda MAF, then get a Wolf 3D.
The first time, the morons at the shop tried to tell me that my K&N filter made it fail. They replaced it under warranty, but gave me a hard time about it. I'm sure that anybody here that has seen my posts KNOWS that I gave them a hard time back.
The second time, I got a fantastic mechanic working on it, and he was honest enough to say that he didn't really know what the problem was because it had some really strange error codes on the ECU, but he reset it, drove it around for reprogramming, and told me to take it back in if I have any more problems.
I have never had a problem with a 2Gen MAF in 13 years. I have no idea why anyone would want to use a Ford MAF, which IMO would be as stupid as replacing the 13B with a Yugo engine. If you want an upgrade that gets rid of the Mazda MAF, then get a Wolf 3D.
the K+N is what made it fail...
technically it didn't fail though but the filter oil coated the tiny resistors in the MAF with filter oil and threw off the readings causing the ECU to go into default readings.
if the technician was smart he would have printed off the factory service bulletin and tossed it at you, charged you for the MAF and walked out of the room.
if you gave me a headache over it i would have thrown it right back at you, you realize factory mechanics get paid dirt from the factory to work on your rigs?
try being a little more considerate next time, so long as he wasn't trying to charge you for the MAF then i would say he was doing you a favor by letting you know.
.....
(4 year old posts, i'm thinking this forum needs auto locking topics because this **** is starting to **** me off)
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 07-31-05 at 02:00 PM.
07-31-05, 02:53 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by flubyux2
ive got alot of mustang friends now, so maybe i can borrow their car and take voltage readings from their MAF's while the car is off/key on, idling and revving. that way i can get an idea of what the voltage slope is like in relation to the car's operation. then i can test my S5's sliding cone AFM voltage output during the same conditons and compare the 2. if they are infact inverse of eachother, then we/i would need to employ someone who could design a voltage inverter or figure out a way to create one myself. if i create it myself, ill patent that ************ and sell it for $200 a piece... and you guys could use a Hotwire MAF and flow almost as well as a VPC/MAP based system for a fraction of the price...
07-31-05, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SonicRaT
Except that people can buy a megasquirt and pretty much have a full standalone for damn near the same cost... I know which I'd go with!
08-01-05, 12:08 AM
#62
08-01-05, 10:13 AM
#63
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I'm surprised that no one has pointed this out before: If you are at the point where the stock AFM is actually a siginificant restriction, you should NOT be running the stock ECU anymore anyway. There are plenty of high HP cars (think close to 400) running around using the stock AFM. It's not a restriction, or at least a significant one.
And I believe as has already been pointed out, on the money you will spend converting to another car's AFM/MAF (pointless anyway) you can purchase an entry level standalone (used Haltech/Microtech, Megasquirt) anyway.
And I believe as has already been pointed out, on the money you will spend converting to another car's AFM/MAF (pointless anyway) you can purchase an entry level standalone (used Haltech/Microtech, Megasquirt) anyway.
08-01-05, 12:10 PM
#65
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Originally Posted by Karack
the K+N is what made it fail...
technically it didn't fail though but the filter oil coated the tiny resistors in the MAF with filter oil and threw off the readings causing the ECU to go into default readings.
if the technician was smart he would have printed off the factory service bulletin and tossed it at you, charged you for the MAF and walked out of the room.
if you gave me a headache over it i would have thrown it right back at you, you realize factory mechanics get paid dirt from the factory to work on your rigs?
try being a little more considerate next time, so long as he wasn't trying to charge you for the MAF then i would say he was doing you a favor by letting you know.
technically it didn't fail though but the filter oil coated the tiny resistors in the MAF with filter oil and threw off the readings causing the ECU to go into default readings.
if the technician was smart he would have printed off the factory service bulletin and tossed it at you, charged you for the MAF and walked out of the room.
if you gave me a headache over it i would have thrown it right back at you, you realize factory mechanics get paid dirt from the factory to work on your rigs?
try being a little more considerate next time, so long as he wasn't trying to charge you for the MAF then i would say he was doing you a favor by letting you know.
If the technician was smart, he wouldn't have been an *** and acted like it was my fault. Fortunately he was smart enough to do the right thing before I sued the snot out of the dealership for violating federal warranty laws. If you would have "given me a headache over it", you would be in the unemployment line. Sorry, but a low salary doesn't give you the right to make customers feel like criminals or to make up a bunch of techno crap thinking that you can get away with it.
FYI I unload on idiots who act like they know everything and try to blame problems on innocent vehicle owners. Always have, always will. If this offends you, then either get an education or don't submit your ignorant comments to the public. This may come as a shock, but some businesses actually attempt to treat customers well. The second Ford dealership to deal with my MAF problem gave me excellent service, quickly fixed the problem, and didn't give me a bunch of BS about it. There ARE good mechanics out there. In my experience, the better mechanics make good money. If you don't make much money, then I guess you know where you stand. Why don't you try to be a better mechanic rather than taking out your frustrations on your customers?
Just remember, whatever your job, there are customers out there who understand some things better than you do. It is in the worker's best interest to be honest. You may be able to BS most people, but there will come a time when you will meet your match. I have no sympathy for liars or jerks in the unemployment line.
08-01-05, 12:19 PM
#66
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Originally Posted by Evil Aviator
That would make complete sense... if you are as big of a jackass as the Ford technician. The K&N filter was installed AFTER the engine started having problems, and had only been on the car for about a week prior to the Ford tech looking at it. There is no way that the K&N filter oiled up my MAF while it was sitting on the shelf at Autozone, lol. Besides, the truck has been driven another 60,000 miles with no MAF problems, running the K&N filter the whole time. The problem was the POS Ford MAF, not the K&N filter. I am not aware of any documented case of a K&N filter causing MAF failure, and there is no way that K&N could stay in business if this were actually a problem. I think the misconception of K&N filters gumming up MAFs is simply a myth propagated by ignorant mechanics.
If the technician was smart, he wouldn't have been an *** and acted like it was my fault. Fortunately he was smart enough to do the right thing before I sued the snot out of the dealership for violating federal warranty laws. If you would have "given me a headache over it", you would be in the unemployment line. Sorry, but a low salary doesn't give you the right to make customers feel like criminals or to make up a bunch of techno crap thinking that you can get away with it.
FYI I unload on idiots who act like they know everything and try to blame problems on innocent vehicle owners. Always have, always will. If this offends you, then either get an education or don't submit your ignorant comments to the public. This may come as a shock, but some businesses actually attempt to treat customers well. The second Ford dealership to deal with my MAF problem gave me excellent service, quickly fixed the problem, and didn't give me a bunch of BS about it. There ARE good mechanics out there. In my experience, the better mechanics make good money. If you don't make much money, then I guess you know where you stand. Why don't you try to be a better mechanic rather than taking out your frustrations on your customers?
Just remember, whatever your job, there are customers out there who understand some things better than you do. It is in the worker's best interest to be honest. You may be able to BS most people, but there will come a time when you will meet your match. I have no sympathy for liars or jerks in the unemployment line.
It's a common problem with OILED FILTERS with any brand, they coat the MAFS with a layer of oil from use and skew the readings, if you think I'm an idiot and think I'm wrong you'll be forking out money to the dealerships every 2 months...
Stop trying to be a know-it-all and learn from a damn change...
08-01-05, 12:26 PM
#68
heh well here is a GM factory TSB for a condition relative that i just pulled up since im on my break...
• Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On
• Transmission shift concerns, slipping and damaged clutch(es) or band(s)
• Engine driveability concerns, poor acceleration from a stop, limited engine RPM range
The oil that is used on these air filter elements may be transferred onto the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor causing contamination of the sensor. As a result, the Grams per Second (GPS) signal from the MAF may be low and any or all of the concerns listed above may occur.
When servicing a vehicle with any of these concerns, be sure to check for the presence of an aftermarket reusable, excessively/over- oiled air filter. The MAF, GPS reading should be compared to a like vehicle with an OEM air box and filter under the same driving conditions to verify the concern.
The use of an aftermarket reusable air filter DOES NOT void the vehicle's warranty.
If an aftermarket reusable air filter is used, technicians should inspect the MAF sensor element and the air induction hose for contamination of oil prior to making warranty repairs.
Transmission or engine driveability concerns (related to the MAF sensor being contaminated with oil) that are the result of the use of an aftermarket reusable, excessively/over-oiled air filter are not considered to be warrantable repair items.
think what you want, it only takes several minutes of running to damage the sensor and cause it to be miscalibrated.
• Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On
• Transmission shift concerns, slipping and damaged clutch(es) or band(s)
• Engine driveability concerns, poor acceleration from a stop, limited engine RPM range
The oil that is used on these air filter elements may be transferred onto the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor causing contamination of the sensor. As a result, the Grams per Second (GPS) signal from the MAF may be low and any or all of the concerns listed above may occur.
When servicing a vehicle with any of these concerns, be sure to check for the presence of an aftermarket reusable, excessively/over- oiled air filter. The MAF, GPS reading should be compared to a like vehicle with an OEM air box and filter under the same driving conditions to verify the concern.
The use of an aftermarket reusable air filter DOES NOT void the vehicle's warranty.
If an aftermarket reusable air filter is used, technicians should inspect the MAF sensor element and the air induction hose for contamination of oil prior to making warranty repairs.
Transmission or engine driveability concerns (related to the MAF sensor being contaminated with oil) that are the result of the use of an aftermarket reusable, excessively/over-oiled air filter are not considered to be warrantable repair items.
think what you want, it only takes several minutes of running to damage the sensor and cause it to be miscalibrated.
08-01-05, 12:26 PM
#69
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You do realize that commenting on a situation you know nothing about just makes you look like more of an *** than anything?
He went to the dealership because it was under WARRANTY, so they replace it for FREE, rather than him having to pay to replace it.
Quit guessing at what EA did and what the mechanics did, because you're just going to end up looking stupid when he quotes and replies back again.
He went to the dealership because it was under WARRANTY, so they replace it for FREE, rather than him having to pay to replace it.
Quit guessing at what EA did and what the mechanics did, because you're just going to end up looking stupid when he quotes and replies back again.
08-01-05, 12:31 PM
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Who gives a ****?
Unless you specifically took off his damn MAF and looked at it, your comments are just useless **** to incite yet another worthless arguement. For all you know EA took the damn thing off, made sweet love to it, and bolted it back on.
Unless you specifically took off his damn MAF and looked at it, your comments are just useless **** to incite yet another worthless arguement. For all you know EA took the damn thing off, made sweet love to it, and bolted it back on.
08-01-05, 12:37 PM
#73
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Originally Posted by Karack
it was the point that he gave this guy a hard time for something he was right in assuming.
The problem is, assuming is bad.
08-01-05, 12:50 PM
#74
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Originally Posted by howardtheduck
You do realize that commenting on a situation you know nothing about just makes you look like more of an *** than anything?
He went to the dealership because it was under WARRANTY, so they replace it for FREE, rather than him having to pay to replace it.
Quit guessing at what EA did and what the mechanics did, because you're just going to end up looking stupid when he quotes and replies back again.
He went to the dealership because it was under WARRANTY, so they replace it for FREE, rather than him having to pay to replace it.
Quit guessing at what EA did and what the mechanics did, because you're just going to end up looking stupid when he quotes and replies back again.
I would like to reiterate that the MAF failed BEFORE the K&N filter was installed. With only 20K miles on the truck, I figured that it was more likely that the degraded engine performance was due to a clogged air filter rather than a failed MAF. Obviously not.
08-01-05, 12:52 PM
#75
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Sorry,
Didn't read the post fully, but just for future reference, oil can and will get on the MAFS and skew the readings.
K&N actually has a notice on their box saying don't over-oil...
If it failed before the filter was put in it's simply just the MAFS being dirty or bad.
- Tech
Didn't read the post fully, but just for future reference, oil can and will get on the MAFS and skew the readings.
K&N actually has a notice on their box saying don't over-oil...
If it failed before the filter was put in it's simply just the MAFS being dirty or bad.
- Tech