FORD 80mm MAF conversion, has it been done?
11-04-01, 08:04 PM
#1
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FORD 80mm MAF conversion, has it been done?
ok, so now 2 of the 4 forums i belong to talk about the Ford MAF conversions.
my Iclub (subaru) forum, and here people talk about converting to the Ford unit. but, i never hear of anyone actually DOING it. they just say they are gonna do it, or they know someone who is. sounds like an urban legend to me.
i want to know how to do it, so i can get rid of my stupid little MAF. i want to hear first hand from someone who has it on their car, and knows how to duplicate it.
the guy who told me on the I-club says to search Google. the MAF should be about 200 bucks, and then get some variable resistors and put it together, but how?
what up wit dat?
chris
my Iclub (subaru) forum, and here people talk about converting to the Ford unit. but, i never hear of anyone actually DOING it. they just say they are gonna do it, or they know someone who is. sounds like an urban legend to me.
i want to know how to do it, so i can get rid of my stupid little MAF. i want to hear first hand from someone who has it on their car, and knows how to duplicate it.
the guy who told me on the I-club says to search Google. the MAF should be about 200 bucks, and then get some variable resistors and put it together, but how?
what up wit dat?
chris
11-04-01, 09:34 PM
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Are you talking about swapping our the complete MAF assembly thingie for another one with a bigger inlet? If so, I dunno if you the FORD one can be used succesfully, but I'M JUST AS CURIOUS to know if this works! Cause I'd do it in an instant...anyone???
11-04-01, 09:58 PM
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My Ford F-150 has only 20k mi on it, and it has been to the dealership TWICE because the MAF sensor failed.
The first time, the morons at the shop tried to tell me that my K&N filter made it fail. They replaced it under warranty, but gave me a hard time about it. I'm sure that anybody here that has seen my posts KNOWS that I gave them a hard time back.
The second time, I got a fantastic mechanic working on it, and he was honest enough to say that he didn't really know what the problem was because it had some really strange error codes on the ECU, but he reset it, drove it around for reprogramming, and told me to take it back in if I have any more problems.
I have never had a problem with a 2Gen MAF in 13 years. I have no idea why anyone would want to use a Ford MAF, which IMO would be as stupid as replacing the 13B with a Yugo engine. If you want an upgrade that gets rid of the Mazda MAF, then get a Wolf 3D.
The first time, the morons at the shop tried to tell me that my K&N filter made it fail. They replaced it under warranty, but gave me a hard time about it. I'm sure that anybody here that has seen my posts KNOWS that I gave them a hard time back.
The second time, I got a fantastic mechanic working on it, and he was honest enough to say that he didn't really know what the problem was because it had some really strange error codes on the ECU, but he reset it, drove it around for reprogramming, and told me to take it back in if I have any more problems.
I have never had a problem with a 2Gen MAF in 13 years. I have no idea why anyone would want to use a Ford MAF, which IMO would be as stupid as replacing the 13B with a Yugo engine. If you want an upgrade that gets rid of the Mazda MAF, then get a Wolf 3D.
11-05-01, 03:33 PM
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first off, it utilizes late 80s to early 90s mustang MAF's. the hotwire set up. the same set up on present day corvettes and Fbodies.
its not like swapping a 13b w/ yugo. its like swapping a self-closing door from a motor home w/ a door-less archway. people can get thru the archway faster than the one person door that you have to hold open.
yes, the ford MAF swap has been done. but, its been done on Porsches. particualarly the 944 Turbo. they realize a 20-40hp gain. do a search on "Ford MAF" and theres one other thread from August 9 that talks about it. i bumped up that thread also. i want to see if the guy has had any results on it.
chris
its not like swapping a 13b w/ yugo. its like swapping a self-closing door from a motor home w/ a door-less archway. people can get thru the archway faster than the one person door that you have to hold open.
yes, the ford MAF swap has been done. but, its been done on Porsches. particualarly the 944 Turbo. they realize a 20-40hp gain. do a search on "Ford MAF" and theres one other thread from August 9 that talks about it. i bumped up that thread also. i want to see if the guy has had any results on it.
chris
11-05-01, 08:57 PM
#6
mad scientist
I am still waiting for the Mustang MAF sensor, but it is supposed to be in the mail. I know basically how to do it, but Im going to wait until I get it working perfect on my car to post a how-to.
If anyone wants to try to pick up one of the MAF sensors in anticipation, you want one from any fuel injected 5.0 Mustang.
If anyone wants to try to pick up one of the MAF sensors in anticipation, you want one from any fuel injected 5.0 Mustang.
11-05-01, 10:54 PM
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Originally posted by mazdaspeed7
I am still waiting for the Mustang MAF sensor, but it is supposed to be in the mail. I know basically how to do it, but Im going to wait until I get it working perfect on my car to post a how-to.
If anyone wants to try to pick up one of the MAF sensors in anticipation, you want one from any fuel injected 5.0 Mustang.
I am still waiting for the Mustang MAF sensor, but it is supposed to be in the mail. I know basically how to do it, but Im going to wait until I get it working perfect on my car to post a how-to.
If anyone wants to try to pick up one of the MAF sensors in anticipation, you want one from any fuel injected 5.0 Mustang.
Brad
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11-06-01, 12:45 AM
#8
So its not as easy as looking at a schematic and matching wires with each other? 
Well you do want to get a maf from a "fox body" 5.0 mustang or ?-93. The ford focus fr200 uses a maf from a 2001 cobra R. More air flow means more powa. - Gabe
Well you do want to get a maf from a "fox body" 5.0 mustang or ?-93. The ford focus fr200 uses a maf from a 2001 cobra R. More air flow means more powa. - Gabe
11-06-01, 01:13 PM
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man this iss what im SAYIN!!!!
this mod has been performed over and over. we need to take advantage of this. weed...er, Mustangs are from the Earf man. (rusting away back INTO the earth) GOD put this hea for me AND you...take advantage man, TAKE advantage!
youd think that the boxy style 5.0 GT would have the same engine and use the same MAF. but oh well, i cant wait to change this over on my car. make my intake and exhaust well worth the effort...maybe after the MAF swap, ill need to get a new ignition, and SAFC... Dizamn... i need more money...
chris
this mod has been performed over and over. we need to take advantage of this. weed...er, Mustangs are from the Earf man. (rusting away back INTO the earth) GOD put this hea for me AND you...take advantage man, TAKE advantage!
youd think that the boxy style 5.0 GT would have the same engine and use the same MAF. but oh well, i cant wait to change this over on my car. make my intake and exhaust well worth the effort...maybe after the MAF swap, ill need to get a new ignition, and SAFC... Dizamn... i need more money...
chris
11-06-01, 10:15 PM
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Originally posted by BigWoogie
if you are going to switch MAF sensors, at least use a QUALITY product. Get the chevy Ls4 MAF
if you are going to switch MAF sensors, at least use a QUALITY product. Get the chevy Ls4 MAF
I'd be going for ease of modification and price on this one. From what it sounds the Ford MAF is rather abundant, while I bet that LS4 MAF would cost an arm and a leg.
I wish I could help with this one and chime in a bit, but I really really suck with electronics and wiring. Keep me posted on how this goes, I may attempt to do it myself if somebody puts together a nice detailed writeup.
11-06-01, 10:43 PM
#13
mad scientist
Originally posted by BigWoogie
if you are going to switch MAF sensors, at least use a QUALITY product. Get the chevy Ls4 MAF
if you are going to switch MAF sensors, at least use a QUALITY product. Get the chevy Ls4 MAF
11-06-01, 10:44 PM
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Originally posted by mazdaspeed7
Well...the reason the mustang MAF is used is because the signal is VERY close to mazda's signal. I know an FC will run with JUST the Mustang MAF, no conversion box. Not saying it will run perfect, or even good, but it will run. I doubt any other ones would have the same result. The differences in voltages between the mustang and stock mazda units are very small, and more inportantly, linear. It simply takes the addition of a few resistors to make it work right.
Well...the reason the mustang MAF is used is because the signal is VERY close to mazda's signal. I know an FC will run with JUST the Mustang MAF, no conversion box. Not saying it will run perfect, or even good, but it will run. I doubt any other ones would have the same result. The differences in voltages between the mustang and stock mazda units are very small, and more inportantly, linear. It simply takes the addition of a few resistors to make it work right.
I'm sorry if that's a stupid question, but I really don't know.
11-07-01, 01:20 AM
#15
Of course ford and mazda are together but the mafs are different but this mod works and works well...I would rather see someone use an upgraded ls1 or etc. maf that you see in summit mags and ****. That would really seem logical... 5.7 liters of measured air flow squeezin into 1.3 liters of power not bad - Gabe
11-07-01, 01:27 AM
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I REALLY want to see this mod done. If I had more free time, and a less demanding "cupholder," I would have done it already. I'm absolutely convinced that this is good for at LEAST 5-10 HP and probably more- but making sure it matches up properly is going to take some research. I'm working on it... but VERY slowly.
What I want to do is find the one that most nearly matches the stock meter... then make a wiring adapter for it. Do a dyno pull with the stock meter... swap them... and do a dyno pull with the mustang MAF instead. Should be interesting!
Brad
What I want to do is find the one that most nearly matches the stock meter... then make a wiring adapter for it. Do a dyno pull with the stock meter... swap them... and do a dyno pull with the mustang MAF instead. Should be interesting!
Brad
11-07-01, 08:17 PM
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im happy to see this gettin alot of attention. hopefully, itll get the real techies interested in makin this swap work.
the Ford probe seems practically identical to our 7. does that run a MAF? what about htat one? fords been usin our **** for a while. i mean, hell, the tranny in the SHO is a Protege' tranny or some ****...why cant we use theirs?!
btw, the Granatelli sig. series MAFs in summit, are $380 a pop. im sure the OE replacements *dealer only item* arent much cheaper.
last i saw of this, guys were makin this mod for the FB's. i remember seeing a thread for this in the spring, i belive before the board crashed or whatever happend to it, so it doesnt come up on a search anymore. oh well.
i think, you should just wire in some variable rate resistors inline w/ the wires, between the MAF and the computer. and you could use that as a beta tester, vary the rates of the resistance, test. when theres no falter, its the right resistance value. record the value, repeat till testing complete. then, produce final product w/ fixed value resistors. mass produce, and share the wealth w/ the community...
sorta like the internet revolution back in the 70s,80s, even 90s.
this will possibly revolutionize 12a/13b/13bt tuning. i cant wait!
chris
the Ford probe seems practically identical to our 7. does that run a MAF? what about htat one? fords been usin our **** for a while. i mean, hell, the tranny in the SHO is a Protege' tranny or some ****...why cant we use theirs?!
btw, the Granatelli sig. series MAFs in summit, are $380 a pop. im sure the OE replacements *dealer only item* arent much cheaper.
last i saw of this, guys were makin this mod for the FB's. i remember seeing a thread for this in the spring, i belive before the board crashed or whatever happend to it, so it doesnt come up on a search anymore. oh well.
i think, you should just wire in some variable rate resistors inline w/ the wires, between the MAF and the computer. and you could use that as a beta tester, vary the rates of the resistance, test. when theres no falter, its the right resistance value. record the value, repeat till testing complete. then, produce final product w/ fixed value resistors. mass produce, and share the wealth w/ the community...
sorta like the internet revolution back in the 70s,80s, even 90s.
this will possibly revolutionize 12a/13b/13bt tuning. i cant wait!
chris
11-07-01, 11:08 PM
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i know this is totally out of the subject but it might be interest
my brother has a 89 celica gts with a lot of small electical mod
he installed a 87 n/a SE MAF from a 7 i had for parts, he cut a lot of wires, solder resistor or something to make it work
only problems was his engine would rev up faster that the cluth and tranny can handle, sending the rpm all over the place after 6 1/2 (or mess with the sensor)but it gave a good pull
he plans to put it back in with a mr2 or camery v6 tranny with supra injectors/fuel pump (trying really hard to out run my 7)
hears my question
DOES ANY ONE HAVE THE MAF WIRE DIAGRAM AND VOLTS FOR A RX-7 MAF THANKS???
my brother has a 89 celica gts with a lot of small electical mod
he installed a 87 n/a SE MAF from a 7 i had for parts, he cut a lot of wires, solder resistor or something to make it work
only problems was his engine would rev up faster that the cluth and tranny can handle, sending the rpm all over the place after 6 1/2 (or mess with the sensor)but it gave a good pull
he plans to put it back in with a mr2 or camery v6 tranny with supra injectors/fuel pump (trying really hard to out run my 7)
hears my question
DOES ANY ONE HAVE THE MAF WIRE DIAGRAM AND VOLTS FOR A RX-7 MAF THANKS???
11-07-01, 11:20 PM
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i cant belive that there was ever a car that had a LAMER maf than our FC's.... i guess the 89 celica has that title.
i cant imagine someone wanting to use the same part that im trying to get RID of...then again, FB's would love to have our AFM, not to mention LOTS of our FC parts.
Mazdaspeed7; do you know of the Model type/year of the Mustang that we should gank the MAF's from? let me know whats up bro.
chris
i cant imagine someone wanting to use the same part that im trying to get RID of...then again, FB's would love to have our AFM, not to mention LOTS of our FC parts.
Mazdaspeed7; do you know of the Model type/year of the Mustang that we should gank the MAF's from? let me know whats up bro.
chris
11-07-01, 11:27 PM
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Yo,
Someone needs to DO this conversion!! Anyone on the "Big List"? They say lotsa brains are on that list, whoever figures out how do a hotwire Mustang MAF conversion is gonna be a hero to the FC community. I've got an NA 1989 GTUs, and I always cringe when I see that tapered MAF attached to the Greddy intake.
Maybe we can take up a collection and actually have some professionals take a look at the Mazda MAF's signals, and the Mustang MAF's signals and see what resistors have to be used, etc. I'm down with kicking down 20 bucks for the cause. I'm tellin' you, whoever comes up with the solution could make some money making little resistor kits and directions on how to do the conversion.
KS
1989 GTUs "Suckin' through a straw."
Someone needs to DO this conversion!! Anyone on the "Big List"? They say lotsa brains are on that list, whoever figures out how do a hotwire Mustang MAF conversion is gonna be a hero to the FC community. I've got an NA 1989 GTUs, and I always cringe when I see that tapered MAF attached to the Greddy intake.
Maybe we can take up a collection and actually have some professionals take a look at the Mazda MAF's signals, and the Mustang MAF's signals and see what resistors have to be used, etc. I'm down with kicking down 20 bucks for the cause. I'm tellin' you, whoever comes up with the solution could make some money making little resistor kits and directions on how to do the conversion.
KS
1989 GTUs "Suckin' through a straw."
11-08-01, 12:10 AM
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Hey, I am assuming you are talking about the '87 NA Air Flow Meter. It is not a MAF (Mass Air Flow) meter, but an old mechanical one, which actually responds only to air flow volume, not mass. Splitting hairs, I know. The 89-91 AFM works the same, but is different mechanically and has different wiring on it's plug. OK, going from the right, A-G:
A: Thermosensor voltage, 2-3V @68F. Warmer = lower V.
B: AFM Sense, a 0-5V signal. 4 volts, engine off. 2-3V at idle.
C: ECU Ground.
D: Vref, +5V regulated, supplied by the ECU.
E: ECU Ground.
F: Chassis Ground (for Fuel Pump Relay)
G: Fuel Pump Relay, +12V engine off, 0V engine running.
Hope this helps. Post if you have questions.
Irv, Keith's dad
A: Thermosensor voltage, 2-3V @68F. Warmer = lower V.
B: AFM Sense, a 0-5V signal. 4 volts, engine off. 2-3V at idle.
C: ECU Ground.
D: Vref, +5V regulated, supplied by the ECU.
E: ECU Ground.
F: Chassis Ground (for Fuel Pump Relay)
G: Fuel Pump Relay, +12V engine off, 0V engine running.
Hope this helps. Post if you have questions.
Irv, Keith's dad
11-08-01, 12:59 AM
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Keith, i know the Diff between AFM and MAF...crazy man. im just too tired to think about which one i want to specify!
thanks keith...er, Irv.
i was just thinkin, maybe I should figure this shiznit out...i mean, how hard can it be???
since youve got the Mazda AFM figured out, maybe i can work on the Ford *cringes* (to think, i vowed id never touch a ford w/ a 10' pole) oh well, maybe, if i find some spare time and money...and brain power. hehe
chris
Edit: does anyone want an Extra credit assignment??? someone can spy on a Ford/Mustang forum and bring us some recon of a Ford MAF; decoded the same way Irv has for us on the Mazda AFM. do it for the good of the forum!!!! take one for the team!
Edit2: check this out http://www.therangerstation.com/MAF_Conversion.html this guy talks about having a MAF recalibrated. he sent it to a company called Pro-flow. read about it, its easier than me explaining it to you.
thanks keith...er, Irv.
i was just thinkin, maybe I should figure this shiznit out...i mean, how hard can it be???
since youve got the Mazda AFM figured out, maybe i can work on the Ford *cringes* (to think, i vowed id never touch a ford w/ a 10' pole) oh well, maybe, if i find some spare time and money...and brain power. hehe
chris
Edit: does anyone want an Extra credit assignment??? someone can spy on a Ford/Mustang forum and bring us some recon of a Ford MAF; decoded the same way Irv has for us on the Mazda AFM. do it for the good of the forum!!!! take one for the team!
Edit2: check this out http://www.therangerstation.com/MAF_Conversion.html this guy talks about having a MAF recalibrated. he sent it to a company called Pro-flow. read about it, its easier than me explaining it to you.
Last edited by flubyux2; 11-08-01 at 01:11 AM.
11-08-01, 01:14 AM
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A. MISC. DIMENSIONAL & RELATED MAF NOTES, FYI:
* Good MAF theory article: go to http://www.mustangworks.com/articles...ion-blues.html
* 5.0L MAF: 82.2mm intake side of MAF, 55mm center area, 70mm output side, into a 70mm ID hose. The input hose is huge: 90mm ID. This MAF meter is calibrated to run with 19lb. injectors.
* STOCK 1990 2.9L MAF INFO: The stock 45mm unit is the same part number unit as used on a 2.3L engine. Both are 71.2mm intake side, 44.8mm center area, 56.1 mm output side, feeding into a 68mm ID hose. The input bolts to the airbox. The stock MAF meter and computer are calibrated to run with 14lb. injectors.
* The largest remaining restriction on the intake system is the inside of the 5.0L MAF meter at 55mm. Next is (in my case) the 1986 throttle body at about 58mm, finally the stock intake hose connecting from the airbox to the MAF meter -- 70mm inside diameter. I'd like the last piece to be larger, but I am not sure it matters that much yet. Using the 5.0L parts for this conversion enables an easy upgrade to a larger (5.0L type) MAF meter in the future, if needed. By the way, I read that a 54mm MAF sensor will flow 900 CFM.
* Pat Kunz recommends that the MAF sensor be calibrated to the engine and injectors. This can be done by sending it to Best Products, Inc. (Pro-Flow). You can find out about them at http://www.pro-flow.com/. FYI, Pro-Flow has a product called the Optimizer that enables you to do your own calibrations if you like. Or you can install the Air Adjuster noted herein.
* Ken Funk noted: "My stock 1990 MAF truck took a special O2 sensor. The NAPA part # is OS205. Its an expensive little bugger, cost about $90.
From Kenny Funk [mailto:kfunk@utahlinx.com]
I'll give you all the part #'s off of the sensor part of the MAF:
FOVF-12B579-A2B
AFH45-25
And the 4 digit code is: 9M14
* Good MAF theory article: go to http://www.mustangworks.com/articles...ion-blues.html
* 5.0L MAF: 82.2mm intake side of MAF, 55mm center area, 70mm output side, into a 70mm ID hose. The input hose is huge: 90mm ID. This MAF meter is calibrated to run with 19lb. injectors.
* STOCK 1990 2.9L MAF INFO: The stock 45mm unit is the same part number unit as used on a 2.3L engine. Both are 71.2mm intake side, 44.8mm center area, 56.1 mm output side, feeding into a 68mm ID hose. The input bolts to the airbox. The stock MAF meter and computer are calibrated to run with 14lb. injectors.
* The largest remaining restriction on the intake system is the inside of the 5.0L MAF meter at 55mm. Next is (in my case) the 1986 throttle body at about 58mm, finally the stock intake hose connecting from the airbox to the MAF meter -- 70mm inside diameter. I'd like the last piece to be larger, but I am not sure it matters that much yet. Using the 5.0L parts for this conversion enables an easy upgrade to a larger (5.0L type) MAF meter in the future, if needed. By the way, I read that a 54mm MAF sensor will flow 900 CFM.
* Pat Kunz recommends that the MAF sensor be calibrated to the engine and injectors. This can be done by sending it to Best Products, Inc. (Pro-Flow). You can find out about them at http://www.pro-flow.com/. FYI, Pro-Flow has a product called the Optimizer that enables you to do your own calibrations if you like. Or you can install the Air Adjuster noted herein.
* Ken Funk noted: "My stock 1990 MAF truck took a special O2 sensor. The NAPA part # is OS205. Its an expensive little bugger, cost about $90.
From Kenny Funk [mailto:kfunk@utahlinx.com]
I'll give you all the part #'s off of the sensor part of the MAF:
FOVF-12B579-A2B
AFH45-25
And the 4 digit code is: 9M14
chris
(extra credit goes to me!)
Edit: i just found out, its recommended NOT to use filters that use oil as the tack barrier (K&N). the air flowing thru the filter picks up the oil, and will deposit it on the hot wire element on a MAF and give you decreased performance. u CAN run the oil-type filter, but u have to clean ur MAF w/ windex and a pipe cleaner. and also, CAI will affect the MAF too.
Last edited by flubyux2; 11-08-01 at 01:34 AM.
12-14-01, 05:06 PM
#25
mad scientist
Update: Mustang MAF sensor conversion
As some of you may know, Ive been working on this for a few weeks. Ive had it idling with no error codes, but Im still having problems. The hot-wire Mustang MAF is very slow reacting, while the stock mazda one registers changes almost instantly. This leads to my current problem. It idles fine, but whenever you presson the gas, the car dies. I checked the O2 sensor voltage, and the car got very lean when it stalled out. The Mustang MAF doesnt react to the extra air fast enough, and therefore the engine leans out so bad it stalls.
I am going to try changing the sensor power voltage from 4.5V sullpied from the ECU to 12V from the battery, and see if I get better results. If that doesnt work, Im going to try to make an enrichment circuit using the TPS signal, and putting it on a timer to give the MAF time to catch up.
I am going to try changing the sensor power voltage from 4.5V sullpied from the ECU to 12V from the battery, and see if I get better results. If that doesnt work, Im going to try to make an enrichment circuit using the TPS signal, and putting it on a timer to give the MAF time to catch up.