Bob_The_Normal

Woohoo!! I had a comment deleted! I have no idea what I said, but I hope it was funny.

This thread has more or less turned into "D00d oKso you wan to drivt? leik you jus do dis tecknike! Leik, u kik teh cluch!! ne1 cen d o it cuz drift is mad tite n itz all driver skizzill. I drift leik mad on teh streetz, liek evry cornr" .... etc etc.

You ignored all the people that know anything about anything to listen to the guys who, as diagoro so wonderfully summed up, beat off to the "Drift Bible" too much.

I would start to go into why, but you know... there are way too many examples, if I pick one someone will think I'm picking on them only and try to defend themselves in a horrible slaughter of something only vaguely resembling the english language... and I'd rather not read it.

And aznpoopy... I know it doesn't seem to make much sense, but a stock FC will have a great tendency to understeer than a stock integra. It makes some sense... a RWD can recover from understeer "easier"... an FF car can recover from oversteer easier.

That is not to say the integra handles better than the FC at all... lol... as if... just that you can throw the back of an integra around easier than you can an FC with stock tuning.

This is actually assuming the tuning on the integra is similar to the civic, which I have driven and felt the stock tuning.

EDIT: And RE: the automatic toe-out correction. This is how I understand it from taking it apart, and honestly I could be wrong... but.. the toe adjustment lock is oval, when a force large enough to TRY to twist the bolt (that holds the trailing arm to your car) is applied, it DOES twist.. a little, the oval twists until it locks. What this does, is toe the rear tire out... only the one that the force is being applied to... so if you are turning right it's the left rear tire.

So what was happening, was the tire was PROBABLY close to breaking tracting if you're putting enough sideways force on it to twist that bolt... if you have very grippy tires, perhaps that's not so true... maybe it would do it while you still have grip.

As the tire tries to break traction, or DOES break traction and is grabbing for traction, the tire toes out... in other words it kind of turns, in a right turn say (left rear tire) it points the tire out to the left... towards where the car has started to slide. So what happens? The tire regains traction of course, turning the tire that way increases the contact area by a lot.

So now you have traction again suddenly.

When you do this in real life, it feels like you are starting to spin, broke traction, and then regained it a second later... even if you didn't let off the throttle. At least when I do it, it does... so it does take a noticable time for it to toe out and regain... but it is no doubt a great idea for grip driving... without it what you'd have to do is correct your oversteer with throttle control and possibly countersteering! In this case, the car does all the work for you.

And... for now obvious reasons, that is not so good for drifting. heh.

--Gary

aznpoopy

my integra comment was more in line with

integra noobs at HPDE, off throttle mid turn and completely spinning out. happens often.

not anything like controlled cornering.

i'm not making any statements about which car corners better; its a moot point anyway. hardly anyone takes their car to the track stock.

it totally makes sense to me... the teg has no weight on the ***. if it loses a bit of traction, the rear can swing around so quick you end up in a ditch before you realize it. its a trade off.

what's really crazy is sitting in a car where a FF driver uses off throttle on purpose. its like reverse drifting. off throttle to point the car, full throttle to pull it straight. scary as hell, makes me sick just thinking about it.

aznpoopy

that was a great break down of how it works.

i feel like i actually understand it now.

instead of breaking traction on the outside wheel, it changes the toe angle, effectively steering that wheel towards the direction the rear wants to go, keeping it from breaking traction.

wouldn't that make the car feel like it was slightly rotating as if you had already broken traction?

no wonder some people don't like it. this would totally screw with trained rwd senses.

Bob_The_Normal

I did it in a spectra (yeah, thats right.) with a boat suspension, you'd probably have **** yourself riding with me... FF is definately a much scarier ride-along and much ballsier for racing.

And as much as I don't want to sound like the bunch of ricers in this thread talking about my "mad canyon racing experience y00000", I do have more FF experience than FR... honestly... just because I care about my FC... and spinning around often leaves the back of the car all screwed up... and I didn't care about the FF car I drove.

In an FF car with stock suspension you more or less do have to "drift" corners. It's not pretty... and it's not drifting... but... the rear tires in an FF car are really where all your grip is at... your front tires don't mean ****... so the fastest line is throwing the car slightly sideways, which takes almost all your front tire traction away... but you still have some. The idea is... you transfer as much weight off of the front tires WITHOUT throwing so much onto the back tires that they lose traction... it doesn't matter what the front tires do, because you balance the car through the turn and you use the throttle to... pull the car around...

Eh it's hard to explain... but it's a very scary driving style... the front tires will often end up "skipping" like when you skip a rock on water.

This is all assuming you don't have money for a real suspension that would let you rebalance the car... -_-;

I've heard that AWD/4WD is the same deal for driving a fast line, but I haven't tried it.

--Gary

I Hate Ricers

Thanks for the break down. NOw just searching for anyone that has removed the DTSS to speak up.

Mazda seems to have a good idea...just that it makes the car very scary to drive at speed. I don't have much confidence in the FC...lack of steering feel and that rear unsettled feeling.

FC is nice to slide though!

RETed

Actually, I think you got it backwards.

Normally, the rears are slightly toed out.
This allows the rear to rotate easier.
Once you load (both) tires more than 0.4G to 0.5G, the DTSS kicks in and induces toe-in.
Toe-in makes for a more stable rear, and this keeps the car from spinning out or oversteering.


-Ted

I Hate Ricers

So Ted, do you do much drifting in Hawaii? I hear it's pretty hot over there!

Bob_The_Normal

Ted is right, I looked it up on Racing Beat and they say the DTSS toes IN a degree...

You know what I'm starting to think now, is that maybe what is happening in the situation I'm talking about is I was already using the DTSS to be turning that much, then when the rear starts to slide out (I normally don't start to correct for this because too much correction is a **** lot worse than just spinning out..!) there isn't as much force being applied because there is no traction? Then when it toes back out the tires grab again.

Still not sure... doubt I'll ever know really other than that after I lose traction, it regains suddenly.

I have the RB rear steer eliminators in my car (somewhere..... my car is a mess) that I need to install... same for the RB springs I have... I just don't have any time that I can be without my car for a whole day right now. =/ And if I remember right, I need to damn near drop the entire subframe out to get to the DTSS bushing. Fun.

--Gary

rhscare

Just go out there and do it. People can write page after page about this but its all experience. Just buy a car you like and have fun.

evalutionr

the best fc is the one that came out in '86 which had no sunroof. you could beat the **** out of it if you want to and strip the interior and do all the other special stuff to it. personally i would use that year to drift with other then that i would probably do autox. its your choice anyways. just do suspension work and lsd and you should be fine

Jager

iTrader: (10)

Why not use the 87.5 Sport? Same lack of options plus you get the 5-lug brakes and suspension.