Fc Custom Dual oil cooler system
11-07-09, 02:15 AM
#1
Fc Custom Dual oil cooler system
hi, i am about to make a custom dual oil cooler kit for my Rx7. The benefits are endless and yes im doing ducting too. Lower oil temps will give better engine performance because heat expands metal so it doesn allow bearing to have the best clearance. (correct me if im wrong) so the lower the oil temp the better the clearances and the better the engine will perform. I am not trying to pay nearly $1000 for my kit. Im am building them from scratch and when i am done i will offer them for you guys to purchase with an fittings and all hose needed for the system, exact brackets and bolts, not to mention a oil accumulator can =) My question is, Can i use tranny oil coolers for engine cooling? I was discussing this matter with a friend and he says yes because its a cooler and its supposed to cool oil, i think different. Engine coolers are made for engines. What do you guys think? Obviously a few things might change; oil pressure and oil capacity but thats not really a big deal because i am "upping" the oil pressure. check out the link to how to do it. http://www.rebuildingrotaryengines.c..._Oil_Regulator
again, lmk thanks
again, lmk thanks
11-07-09, 06:11 AM
#2
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Unless you're having problems with oil temperatures that are too high, confirmed with a proper gauge, then it's a waste of money. You won't find extra power or efficiency by running the oil cooler than normal, in fact you'll likely find that things get worse.
11-07-09, 06:58 AM
#4
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- The stock FC oil cooler is one of the best ones on the market. Not only does it work just fine for the street, but many track cars also use it.
- Race RX-7s need higher oil pressure more so than lower temperature. Street RX-7s should not have a high pressure oil system.
- Transmission coolers will probably work, but I am not sure if you would be able to randomly piece together something that would work better than the stock cooler.
- If you are planning on a dual core system, running them in series may adversely affect the oil pressure, while running them parallel will greatly increase the amount of plumbing. Also, ducting will be difficult, and the typical problems with dual oil coolers are the blocking of air to the front brakes (which is way more critical than the oil temp) and potential damage to the coolers if the car hits a curb (which happens quite often in road racing events).
- FYI making something from "scratch" means that you will fabricate all components yourself, which in this case means that you would fabricate your own heat exchanger cores and tubing. It sounds to me like you are attempting to simply gather a bunch of aftermarket parts and sell them as a kit.
If you are just looking for something to sell, how about some affordable stock-level or upgraded halfshafts? Mazda no longer sells new halfshafts, and no aftermarket shafts are currently offered by Racing Beat or Mazdatrix. Only rebuilt shafts are available right now for about $115, and I think a lot of people would not mind paying a little more for new and/or upgraded shafts.
Other items that would probably sell well would include a UV tinted glass or carbon fiber sun roof, rebuilt or aftermarket headlight and wiper switches (new are currently $300-700 each), and a less-expensive outer window seal. If you hang around this forum for a while you will get a better idea of what we really want.
- Race RX-7s need higher oil pressure more so than lower temperature. Street RX-7s should not have a high pressure oil system.
- Transmission coolers will probably work, but I am not sure if you would be able to randomly piece together something that would work better than the stock cooler.
- If you are planning on a dual core system, running them in series may adversely affect the oil pressure, while running them parallel will greatly increase the amount of plumbing. Also, ducting will be difficult, and the typical problems with dual oil coolers are the blocking of air to the front brakes (which is way more critical than the oil temp) and potential damage to the coolers if the car hits a curb (which happens quite often in road racing events).
- FYI making something from "scratch" means that you will fabricate all components yourself, which in this case means that you would fabricate your own heat exchanger cores and tubing. It sounds to me like you are attempting to simply gather a bunch of aftermarket parts and sell them as a kit.
If you are just looking for something to sell, how about some affordable stock-level or upgraded halfshafts? Mazda no longer sells new halfshafts, and no aftermarket shafts are currently offered by Racing Beat or Mazdatrix. Only rebuilt shafts are available right now for about $115, and I think a lot of people would not mind paying a little more for new and/or upgraded shafts.
Other items that would probably sell well would include a UV tinted glass or carbon fiber sun roof, rebuilt or aftermarket headlight and wiper switches (new are currently $300-700 each), and a less-expensive outer window seal. If you hang around this forum for a while you will get a better idea of what we really want.
11-07-09, 02:46 PM
#6
- If you are planning on a dual core system, running them in series may adversely affect the oil pressure, while running them parallel will greatly increase the amount of plumbing. Also, ducting will be difficult, and the typical problems with dual oil coolers are the blocking of air to the front brakes (which is way more critical than the oil temp) and potential damage to the coolers if the car hits a curb (which happens quite often in road racing events).
11-07-09, 06:29 PM
#7
yeah i was thinking that a dual oil cooler set up along with raising the oil pressure might add strain to oil pump... nothing last for ever. Im building my system with that in mind. Eventually i say in about 4-5 years down the road if the pump gives out leaves me stuck somewhere, i wouldn't mind because i would know i got the best possible performance out of that pump for that amount of time which is a long time if you think about it. Most rotary oil pumps last longer than the engines themselves lol. Adding a little more strain to a pump only effects the life of it. Im doing this set up for me because i want my oil system to be bullet proof. i want it so that in an event in which case i have to push my car to the limit my oil system will be there to support my needs. Im also installing a hobbs low pressure kill switch as well.
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11-07-09, 07:40 PM
#8
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http://www.who-sells-it.com/cy/mazda...6/page-29.html
http://www.petersonfluidsys.com/
I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish, as there are 600+ horsepower RX-7s using the stock oil cooler. It sounds to me like you are spending a lot of time and money to fix a problem that does not exist. Enduance racers that need a "bullet proof" oil system use a dry sump.
11-08-09, 01:11 PM
#10
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are you planning on mounting the coolers off to the sides in the brake ducts? TTT already did that. He used 2 mocal coolers. I guess it does put less crap in the middle/make life easier if you are trying a vmount
11-08-09, 07:56 PM
#12
If you are just looking for something to sell, how about some affordable stock-level or upgraded halfshafts? Mazda no longer sells new halfshafts, and no aftermarket shafts are currently offered by Racing Beat or Mazdatrix. Only rebuilt shafts are available right now for about $115, and I think a lot of people would not mind paying a little more for new and/or upgraded shafts.
I actually stocked up on axles in the past few years.
6 TII axles total.
2 differentials.
11-08-09, 10:49 PM
#15
yeah but for almost $900. Not trying to say anything about mazdatrix they are one of the worlds leading rotary performance companies but my goal will be to create a similar system with an accumulator and including everything necessary for the kit at an affordable price. Before and after results, proven results, A one year Guarantee and one year Warranty on any of the products included in my kits. I mean, im working on making custom fuel rails as we speak ( money is tight) so the dual oil cooler kit can wait lol.
11-11-09, 06:13 AM
#16
****, my oil temps are the only thing forcing me to pull off the track and cool down. Ill get to 120*C in less than 10 minutes on an average day. Fresh oil and filter. 20w-50
Ive been trying to do this for a while now but i always get discourage once i starting adding up all the fittings i'll need. they're not cheap.
oh well, guess im on my own again
Ive been trying to do this for a while now but i always get discourage once i starting adding up all the fittings i'll need. they're not cheap.
oh well, guess im on my own again
11-11-09, 12:54 PM
#17
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The parts are not that expensive:
oil thermostat - $50
10x -12 90 degree fittings (to lazy to look up prices for straight fittings) - $20*10=$200
2 coolers - 70*2=$140
20' of -12 hose - $133
525ish as an estimate for parts. could be cheaper if you used less hose and some straight fittings. The coolers are cheap ones from frozen boost. If you go with mocals it is going to be much more expensive.
of course, this does not include ducting mounting hardware etc.
Any idea of pricing on the kit you would provide?
oil thermostat - $50
10x -12 90 degree fittings (to lazy to look up prices for straight fittings) - $20*10=$200
2 coolers - 70*2=$140
20' of -12 hose - $133
525ish as an estimate for parts. could be cheaper if you used less hose and some straight fittings. The coolers are cheap ones from frozen boost. If you go with mocals it is going to be much more expensive.
of course, this does not include ducting mounting hardware etc.
Any idea of pricing on the kit you would provide?
11-11-09, 12:58 PM
#18
waste
of
time
if you want more efficiency then adjust the angles of the oil cooler so it does not block airflow to the radiator(or exchange heat), nothing beats the stock FC oil cooler, not even the R1 FD duals(although they did have the right idea of moving them out of the way of the radiator but that was mainly due to space limitations).
of
time
if you want more efficiency then adjust the angles of the oil cooler so it does not block airflow to the radiator(or exchange heat), nothing beats the stock FC oil cooler, not even the R1 FD duals(although they did have the right idea of moving them out of the way of the radiator but that was mainly due to space limitations).
11-29-09, 03:10 PM
#21
I'd be in...but I could make a kit for a little less then that. Most expensive pieces are the AN fittings and lines, coolers can be had for cheap from Summit, Baker Precision or a good friend named Jaime. There are guidelines though, for instance how many rows would be required to adequately cool the oil better then the stock cooler. If I recall, the fc rule is if you're running dual coolers they need to be 19 row. Fd guys, dual coolers are 21. This isn't concrete so don't quote me but it makes sense. If you run two small 19 row coolers the pressure drop couldn't be harmful.
I'd like to no more of the concerns with building a kit though, the only thing I can be for sure about is my oil gets plenty hot on track and and I'd like to atleast slow it down. Horse Theif Mile is alright for hot-lapping but all the other small venues I drive are pretty quick on the gas and off.
Sorry for my useless contribution to this thread, just trying to say I'm interested
I'm working on a diff cooler project as well but thats nowhere near as difficult or as fragile as an oil cooler set up.
I'd like to no more of the concerns with building a kit though, the only thing I can be for sure about is my oil gets plenty hot on track and and I'd like to atleast slow it down. Horse Theif Mile is alright for hot-lapping but all the other small venues I drive are pretty quick on the gas and off.
Sorry for my useless contribution to this thread, just trying to say I'm interested
I'm working on a diff cooler project as well but thats nowhere near as difficult or as fragile as an oil cooler set up.
11-29-09, 03:39 PM
#22
The parts are not that expensive:
oil thermostat - $50
10x -12 90 degree fittings (to lazy to look up prices for straight fittings) - $20*10=$200
2 coolers - 70*2=$140
20' of -12 hose - $133
525ish as an estimate for parts. could be cheaper if you used less hose and some straight fittings. The coolers are cheap ones from frozen boost. If you go with mocals it is going to be much more expensive.
of course, this does not include ducting mounting hardware etc.
Any idea of pricing on the kit you would provide?
oil thermostat - $50
10x -12 90 degree fittings (to lazy to look up prices for straight fittings) - $20*10=$200
2 coolers - 70*2=$140
20' of -12 hose - $133
525ish as an estimate for parts. could be cheaper if you used less hose and some straight fittings. The coolers are cheap ones from frozen boost. If you go with mocals it is going to be much more expensive.
of course, this does not include ducting mounting hardware etc.
Any idea of pricing on the kit you would provide?
yeah but for almost $900. Not trying to say anything about mazdatrix they are one of the worlds leading rotary performance companies but my goal will be to create a similar system with an accumulator and including everything necessary for the kit at an affordable price. Before and after results, proven results, A one year Guarantee and one year Warranty on any of the products included in my kits. I mean, im working on making custom fuel rails as we speak ( money is tight) so the dual oil cooler kit can wait lol.
Dont any of you value your time? Put a price per hour and how long you think its going to take, then factor that into your budget.
11-29-09, 05:48 PM
#23
yeah you have a valid point. i am also in the works of creating my very own legitimate company. I do not have anything against That company but were does it say you cant compete? I am experimenting with my dual cooler designs in the search of better engine performance, life and reliability. As a matter of fact, im also looking into an alternative to the OMP by instead of injecting conventional oil you inject safe and clean Two cycle so instead of premix you just refill a reservoir in the engine compartment somewhere. I will test my cars oil temp for a while and test the car through different condition to see if a dual oil cooler system is in need. A dual oil cooler system is not a necessity but it would be a good peace of mind knowing your oil system is bullet proof. Thats were i come in. I am going to offer proven results and keep everyone updated on the progress... But first i need to buy some 13B-RE engine conversion mounts =)
11-29-09, 07:21 PM
#25
im not saying anything against competition, im saying just because someone can assemble parts for $550 does not mean a shop is out of line for charging $900 for a complete system ready to bolt on.
There is a reason why some companies stay in business for a very long time, you have to be able to charge a fair price and be able to turn a profit to be able to stay in business.
the OMP is a good idea but it must be able to work off throttle so that it does not always dump the same amount in all the time, or have a inexpensive standalone electronic control like that one company has in australia
There is a reason why some companies stay in business for a very long time, you have to be able to charge a fair price and be able to turn a profit to be able to stay in business.
the OMP is a good idea but it must be able to work off throttle so that it does not always dump the same amount in all the time, or have a inexpensive standalone electronic control like that one company has in australia