fastest rx7 n/a???
11-06-06, 12:46 PM
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fastest rx7 n/a???
just wondering what is the fastest fc n/a can get?? also what mods can i add to make my 87 fc faster, without adding turbo since its so expensive??
11-06-06, 12:52 PM
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It depends on how far willing you are to go.
Street port, intake, exhaust, tune, 200 whp? Then you can get into bridge ports or peripherial ports but they make the car unstreetable.
There is also rear gears, and if you are willing to gut the car.
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11-06-06, 02:22 PM
#8
It doesn't take a whole lot of money to get most of the potential out of a streetable 13B engine. That doesn't mean it'll be fast enough for some people though but for others it is. Low 14's aren't out of the question but that's about it until you start making some serious sacrifices on drivability. A good exhaust such as a true dual or a long primary system, an aluminum flywheel, a standalone ecu that is tuned good (not an SAFC or any other bandaid), and streetporting will get you there. Every other mod is mild.
Getting a turbo isn't necessarily and cheaper or easier. The car is pretty old so finding a decent used TII isn't that easy anymore. I don't care who claims otherwise. I know where a few are here but I wouldn't want to own any of them. Odds are that if you find one, you'll have to spend a good deal of money just to make the vehicle itself decent enough to drive as most are not very well taken care of. If you were to try to add a turbo to a nonturbo, you'd still need to spend more money than most people think.
A turbo is not as cheap or easy an option as many would have you believe. He didn't say he was going for ultra mega high horsepower numbers anyways. I used to own an RX-7 that did over 400 rwhp and I'm honestly content on a 200 hp 1st gen now. You don't need "big numbers" to have big fun.
Getting a turbo isn't necessarily and cheaper or easier. The car is pretty old so finding a decent used TII isn't that easy anymore. I don't care who claims otherwise. I know where a few are here but I wouldn't want to own any of them. Odds are that if you find one, you'll have to spend a good deal of money just to make the vehicle itself decent enough to drive as most are not very well taken care of. If you were to try to add a turbo to a nonturbo, you'd still need to spend more money than most people think.
A turbo is not as cheap or easy an option as many would have you believe. He didn't say he was going for ultra mega high horsepower numbers anyways. I used to own an RX-7 that did over 400 rwhp and I'm honestly content on a 200 hp 1st gen now. You don't need "big numbers" to have big fun.
11-06-06, 02:44 PM
#10
For most people, 170-180 or so is the max for a streetable NA. This is with a fresh rebuild, a good street port, and some type of fuel controller. With a standalone and a good tune, you can get to 200ish. After that, your looking at stuff that isn't really streetable like bridge or peripheral porting. Granted they can be driven on the street, but most people would not consider it a streetable car.
11-06-06, 02:59 PM
#12
Originally Posted by Karack
never said turbo was cheap either but to get power from an n/a requires a rebuild and streetport at least and a EMS, those 2 alone will just get you starting out at over $2000 even if he does the work all himself.
11-06-06, 03:01 PM
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CAI (not too long, remember resonance...) a standalone, port out the intake manifold, get a paired exhaust and a low restriction muffler, and with the standalone TUNE IT - Spark AND Fuel. Also remember not to use a higher octane fuel than you need, becuase you have to squeeze every pony out of it and lower octane gas is more energetic.
Oh, and just put on some short *** rear gears, keep the wheels small in diameter AND lightweight (17" and 16" wheels of the same mass, the 17" still has more rotational inertia) and a light flywheel and that will definitely liven it up.
And well, you can always add 'lightness'...
I take it this is for a street car, so I woudln't go over a street port. Also, the whole "if you have to ask..." thing comes to mind, no offence.
Oh, and just put on some short *** rear gears, keep the wheels small in diameter AND lightweight (17" and 16" wheels of the same mass, the 17" still has more rotational inertia) and a light flywheel and that will definitely liven it up.
And well, you can always add 'lightness'...
I take it this is for a street car, so I woudln't go over a street port. Also, the whole "if you have to ask..." thing comes to mind, no offence.
11-06-06, 03:04 PM
#14
Originally Posted by rotarygod
Good luck finding a decent (or even crap) used TII for that price and good luck getting a turbo system done properly for that much. Remember getting it done and doing it properly are not the same thing.
i am comparing a situation where nothing is at the beginning but you choose a path, if he already has an n/a and wants to mod it and keep it that's fine. sure an n/a will be a fair bit cheaper than a T2 to purchase but the T2 will have more potential for less money. if you start with either a T2 or n/a engine you will go farther with a T2 with $2000 than you can with a n/a since the T2 can get by without porting(rebuilding).
i don't want to start a pissing contest i am just giving my opinion, there is nothing wrong with n/a power but it is very limited.
11-06-06, 03:13 PM
#16
not that he has to keep the n/a, they do sell for some money.
n/a's are quick but when you start getting the hunger for more power you are better off selling it and going turbo than spending money into a very limited powerplant.
turbo n/a is also an option but it is a very hot motor and only professionals should start modding high compression turbo engines, i would say they are rather hot out of the box though when done right. not all too expensive either but very labor intensive.
yes the thread is about the fastest n/a but it always comes down to money, the fastest n/a will never compete with even a moderately modded turbo application.
people who always ask this question rarely realize just how deep of a hole this goes.
n/a's are quick but when you start getting the hunger for more power you are better off selling it and going turbo than spending money into a very limited powerplant.
turbo n/a is also an option but it is a very hot motor and only professionals should start modding high compression turbo engines, i would say they are rather hot out of the box though when done right. not all too expensive either but very labor intensive.
yes the thread is about the fastest n/a but it always comes down to money, the fastest n/a will never compete with even a moderately modded turbo application.
people who always ask this question rarely realize just how deep of a hole this goes.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 11-06-06 at 03:17 PM.
11-06-06, 04:16 PM
#17
If you want streetable power, the only real way is to go turbo. That said, you can have a shitload of fun with an NA. I have one and love it. Sure its only as fast as my dad's stock WRX, but thats still pretty fast. Its not going to whip up on any heavily modded cars, but it is still every bit as fun in the twisties, which is where I have my fun. If you want a drag car, you're better of with a turbo, but if you want a fun, quick street car an NA is all you need.
11-06-06, 04:23 PM
#18
Originally Posted by Karack
yes the thread is about the fastest n/a but it always comes down to money, the fastest n/a will never compete with even a moderately modded turbo application.
people who always ask this question rarely realize just how deep of a hole this goes.
people who always ask this question rarely realize just how deep of a hole this goes.
11-06-06, 07:20 PM
#19
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N/A's are alright. Although I strongly dislike the design mazda made with the operation of the 5th and 6th ports.
Toyota made a similar system called TVIS (Toyota Variable Induction System) that they used on their AE86 GT-S Corollas and select AW11 MR2's. It performed the same function, although it was done off the current RPM's of the engine, thus no modifying of the exhaust would mess with the opening.
If your on the quest for more horsepower, my only advice is to go turbo.
However, a mildly modified N/A 13b can be a bit of a fun time if done right. getting an exhaust that allows operation of the 5th and 6th ports will provide a good gain in horsepower, such as the Racing Beat exhaust. Give it a cold air induction intake, Port inserts from pineapple racing, RX-8 Rotors, and there you go. a mildly tuned N/A 13b.
cost effective? not really. I'd just buy a Jspec turbo motor and rebuild it, you'd be more well off.
Toyota made a similar system called TVIS (Toyota Variable Induction System) that they used on their AE86 GT-S Corollas and select AW11 MR2's. It performed the same function, although it was done off the current RPM's of the engine, thus no modifying of the exhaust would mess with the opening.
If your on the quest for more horsepower, my only advice is to go turbo.
However, a mildly modified N/A 13b can be a bit of a fun time if done right. getting an exhaust that allows operation of the 5th and 6th ports will provide a good gain in horsepower, such as the Racing Beat exhaust. Give it a cold air induction intake, Port inserts from pineapple racing, RX-8 Rotors, and there you go. a mildly tuned N/A 13b.
cost effective? not really. I'd just buy a Jspec turbo motor and rebuild it, you'd be more well off.
11-06-06, 08:11 PM
#22
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People are too quick to say get a turbo, I don't want one, and neither does the original poster, NA has its advantages too. People seem to assume that since it's not "fast" in a straight line that its not worth it or that its not as much fun.
Not all of us are all that concerned with ultimate speed, or getting the best numbers possible, whatever they are, hp, cornering grip, or whatever. To me it's more important that it's fun, reliable and easy to drive. At the track it's a huge amount of fun to chase down new Porsches and BMW's with my cheap, old, low powered car. It'd be much less satisfying to pass them because my car's way more capable than theirs in every way. I know what driving a reasonably powerful turbo car is like and that's fun too, but it's different fun. I have my fun in the twisties, the straights are just the filler in between. For street use, and even track use, an NA has more than enough power to provide lots of fun.
The 5/6 port actuators on the S5's are a much better design, they're actuated by the airpump, so no exhaust will affect them.
Not all of us are all that concerned with ultimate speed, or getting the best numbers possible, whatever they are, hp, cornering grip, or whatever. To me it's more important that it's fun, reliable and easy to drive. At the track it's a huge amount of fun to chase down new Porsches and BMW's with my cheap, old, low powered car. It'd be much less satisfying to pass them because my car's way more capable than theirs in every way. I know what driving a reasonably powerful turbo car is like and that's fun too, but it's different fun. I have my fun in the twisties, the straights are just the filler in between. For street use, and even track use, an NA has more than enough power to provide lots of fun.
The 5/6 port actuators on the S5's are a much better design, they're actuated by the airpump, so no exhaust will affect them.
11-06-06, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyblat
N/A's are alright. Although I strongly dislike the design mazda made with the operation of the 5th and 6th ports.
Toyota made a similar system called TVIS (Toyota Variable Induction System) that they used on their AE86 GT-S Corollas and select AW11 MR2's. It performed the same function, although it was done off the current RPM's of the engine, thus no modifying of the exhaust would mess with the opening.
If your on the quest for more horsepower, my only advice is to go turbo.
However, a mildly modified N/A 13b can be a bit of a fun time if done right. getting an exhaust that allows operation of the 5th and 6th ports will provide a good gain in horsepower, such as the Racing Beat exhaust. Give it a cold air induction intake, Port inserts from pineapple racing, RX-8 Rotors, and there you go. a mildly tuned N/A 13b.
cost effective? not really. I'd just buy a Jspec turbo motor and rebuild it, you'd be more well off.
Toyota made a similar system called TVIS (Toyota Variable Induction System) that they used on their AE86 GT-S Corollas and select AW11 MR2's. It performed the same function, although it was done off the current RPM's of the engine, thus no modifying of the exhaust would mess with the opening.
If your on the quest for more horsepower, my only advice is to go turbo.
However, a mildly modified N/A 13b can be a bit of a fun time if done right. getting an exhaust that allows operation of the 5th and 6th ports will provide a good gain in horsepower, such as the Racing Beat exhaust. Give it a cold air induction intake, Port inserts from pineapple racing, RX-8 Rotors, and there you go. a mildly tuned N/A 13b.
cost effective? not really. I'd just buy a Jspec turbo motor and rebuild it, you'd be more well off.
TVIS is more like the VDI system than the Aux ports in that it modifies the intake manifold. On the Toyota manifolds with TVIS there are 8 runners. 4 of them have a butterfly valve at the head that opens when a certain RPM is reached. This changes the manifold flow ability.
If you had to draw a correlation the aux ports are more like VTEC. It allows increased airflow. VTEC iscreases lift to allow more flow, Aux ports open to allow more flow. Its not a direct comparison, but more appropriate.
With a RPM switch, solenoid and pump you can run the aux valves and VDI off of RPM only. There are threads about it somewhere.
BC
11-06-06, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by anewconvert
TVIS is more like the VDI system than the Aux ports in that it modifies the intake manifold. On the Toyota manifolds with TVIS there are 8 runners. 4 of them have a butterfly valve at the head that opens when a certain RPM is reached. This changes the manifold flow ability.
If you had to draw a correlation the aux ports are more like VTEC. It allows increased airflow. VTEC iscreases lift to allow more flow, Aux ports open to allow more flow. Its not a direct comparison, but more appropriate.
With a RPM switch, solenoid and pump you can run the aux valves and VDI off of RPM only. There are threads about it somewhere.
BC
If you had to draw a correlation the aux ports are more like VTEC. It allows increased airflow. VTEC iscreases lift to allow more flow, Aux ports open to allow more flow. Its not a direct comparison, but more appropriate.
With a RPM switch, solenoid and pump you can run the aux valves and VDI off of RPM only. There are threads about it somewhere.
BC
yeah I know that, I saw the threads on the switch. but toyotas TVIS did pretty much the same thing. It opened up at a certain rpm range on the intake and allowed more airflow, just like our 5th/6th ports, in the sense of allowing more in than when they are closed. (I owned an AE86 =) ) I mean, yeah sure you can rig it up to run like that, but it'd be nice if it came from the factory that way to save us trouble haha.
11-06-06, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Black91n/a
People are too quick to say get a turbo, I don't want one, and neither does the original poster, NA has its advantages too. People seem to assume that since it's not "fast" in a straight line that its not worth it or that its not as much fun.
Not all of us are all that concerned with ultimate speed, or getting the best numbers possible, whatever they are, hp, cornering grip, or whatever. To me it's more important that it's fun, reliable and easy to drive. At the track it's a huge amount of fun to chase down new Porsches and BMW's with my cheap, old, low powered car. It'd be much less satisfying to pass them because my car's way more capable than theirs in every way. I know what driving a reasonably powerful turbo car is like and that's fun too, but it's different fun. I have my fun in the twisties, the straights are just the filler in between. For street use, and even track use, an NA has more than enough power to provide lots of fun.
The 5/6 port actuators on the S5's are a much better design, they're actuated by the airpump, so no exhaust will affect them.
Not all of us are all that concerned with ultimate speed, or getting the best numbers possible, whatever they are, hp, cornering grip, or whatever. To me it's more important that it's fun, reliable and easy to drive. At the track it's a huge amount of fun to chase down new Porsches and BMW's with my cheap, old, low powered car. It'd be much less satisfying to pass them because my car's way more capable than theirs in every way. I know what driving a reasonably powerful turbo car is like and that's fun too, but it's different fun. I have my fun in the twisties, the straights are just the filler in between. For street use, and even track use, an NA has more than enough power to provide lots of fun.
The 5/6 port actuators on the S5's are a much better design, they're actuated by the airpump, so no exhaust will affect them.