RETed

Oh, I agree with the high speed stuff.&nbsp It's the only way to "connect" turns and to make everything look effortless.&nbsp Getting real sideways just slows you down - most audiences like this, but the pros know otherwise.

And since hyperrex pasted all this crap in his Xanga, I'll drop a link to it, since it's public domain.

http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=HyperRex

Check out the modded spindle project...


-Ted

steviep_

rx7's are lighter they weigh 2625 lbs stock
240s are 2657 lbs for the base coupe

( 240's are slower anyway, i raced my friends lightly modded 240 base coupe and i walked him and im bone stock )

steviep_

sorry i forgot to mention its a 91 240

JagdStealth

Muhahaha 1970 Challenger drift project.

I'd really love to get it out there just to have fun, I know I'd probably be the only Dodge Challenger drifting. It is a better setup for this sort of driving vs. any chevy or ford of this vintage. The rear suspension is setup much different and is much moer capable...as capable as you can get for leafs

It's got enoguh torque to instantly light up the 275s in the rear...so....

Do you attend the 4AG drift days out here? I'll be at the next one in my FC...

I'm also working with some people to setup our own.

Dan H

RX7 Turbo's are around ~2850lbs for S4's. Only NA base models were around ~2625.

mazdized

I am telling you all you need the DTSS to work. Like I said I was arguing with Paul but he is the type thinks that to have eliminator bushing and other **** will make up for the fact that the driver has no car control at all, and when you BUY **** and then poof you are the greatest driver so if Racing Beat is selling you **** then it must be better and you must need it. I did a lot of suspension adjusting and tire combo. All those things did help, but for cars with out working DTSS they just don't have the right charicteristics. As I was going through this I said man why won't the Yellow car drift like a stock FC, all this **** on the car and I still think a stock FC is better and more controlable. Every thing pretty much narrowed down and the conclusion was pointing to DTSS or not, and when I drifted my S5 the hypothesis was proven. I know this is going to sound egotistic but I don't know how other places are but all the events I have been to in Calif. I am pretty much the only one that is handling a FC out there. ( and now I realize how much of a piece of **** the yellow car is that I was trying to handle.) The guys from East with the SR20 FC was good but it is a SR20 so I don't know if it counts. I have been asking people here who is drifting and are they coming out to events, well there are really no RXs out there were I was. Horse power will get you out of trouble and cover up mistakes but for me it is like gripping. I think he key is entrancespeed and corner speed to cover lack of power. Just like gripping I try to go in as fast as I can and just let the car scrub off the speed, hit my apex with enough speed left I can easily connect the next drift with the power I got. Like I said at D-6 I thought my NA S5 will do absolutely nothing with 146 hp, but the car was handling great ( in drifting terms ) I thought and it had plenty power for me at that course. I was connecting every turn full lock to lock just about. As I was learning drifting ( I still am learning ) it is the same for me as when I learned gripping. To drift out of a corner is the easy part like exiting a corner is easy in gripping. the hard part is entering the corner. As I learned in grip on gaining higher and higher entrance and corner speed I found myself needing to throttle less and less, well the exact same goes for drifting for me. The drift starts ealier, I enter faster, I can keep the drift exiting with out full power, and if I need the full power it is for the next drift. Oh another thing I found, testing you car out around the corner to see how it drifts it not a good way to see how it handles, it is like taking your car around the block and say Yeah it will do go on road course. You need to have the car on the track to get the true feeling for it. ( unless you go ***** out on the street then I guess the street is you track. I tried to drift S5 around the block and I thought it is just hopelessly under torqued, but I was wrong when I first took it out on D6. First run no spin, no wiggle, great line it held and power was plenty. ( the course had a fast right hand turn then gradually tightens up as you go through the turns so power was not much issue if entrance speed was up, however on other configuration I am sure 146 hp and 112 Ib of torque will keep me struggling.)

12aPwr

hey so that was you on that drift day with the black FC? i was the guy cheering all of the 7's as they came around the first turn (after the feint spot), you where pretty good i might add

RETed

Grip driving allows just one line with maybe 10% deviation of the width of the track.&nbsp Going beyond that only slows you down as you end up covering significant amounts of asphalt.&nbsp I believe drifting allows for multiple lines - at least a bigger deviation of the width of the track versus grip driving.&nbsp Fastest time doesn't really factor directly into scoring; you can make an argument about speed corresponding to faster lap tim, but style makes up most of the points for most events.&nbsp With that being said, driving technique can be a lot more varied.&nbsp With such a large leeway during drifting, I tend to advise drivers to get into a driving style that is most comfortable to them.&nbsp Once we get the driver comfortable with a certain driving rythm and line, we can start to increase speed.&nbsp This is what I tell those asking for help.&nbsp Now, most of the guys I work with do not even have the type of racing caliber you do, mazdized - I think you already know that.&nbsp Talking to someone with as extensive track time as you have is a little different talk to these guys who basically are street racers (with very little track time).&nbsp I really don't want to do go dictate how the car should be set-up.&nbsp slidingsky had already done the DTSS eliminator bushing install before I started working with him.&nbsp What's done is done - I really don't want to tell him to put the old stock bushings back in.&nbsp I find that counterproductive at this point.&nbsp I'd rather help him with his current set-up to see if we can get some decent performance from his car the way it is.

Dude, you should know I mean no disrespect to you.&nbsp I know what you're capable of, and right now you run rings around me.&nbsp I will easily concede that in a heartbeat!&nbsp You gotta realize that talking to you and talking with these other "kids" is two different things.&nbsp I would never talk to you at the level how I talk to these guy and vice versa.



-Ted

Infini IV

Wierd, my FC's suspension is almost all stock with the exception of GAB adj shocks (I have personally set it to the settings I find most enjoyable). When I took it out to Buttonwillow, I found my car to understeer a little more than I liked. It didn't have the neutral-ness that my 1st Gen had. Sure it felt alright entering a turn, but as soon as I gently rolled onto the gas, and slowly unwinded the steering at the apex, the car would squat more than I'd like, and end up understeering. Of course transitions brought out the best of my car and my driving, as these parts of the track were where my car felt more neutral and where I gained on several cars.

Not to say it wasn't very fast, because I was keeping up with S2000's and non-Z06 C5's... But it was definately boring.

Although I have never drifted on any course other than on the streets, I do have to say that the the way I drift isn't too dissimilar to the way I drive fast. With this being said, the car's characteristics are much the same for me while drifting. The only way I am able to get good, smooth, clean drifts is through excessive weight shifting. Without enough weight being shifted to an opposite side first, I almost always end up understeering (which I have to battle by sometimes clutch kicking, sometimes left foot braking).

What would you guys say is causing this understeering?

slidingsky

I would really have to disagree with the need for the DTSS. I know of no 240 drifters stilll running the hicas. Same principle. Most of the guys here are pretty good. All no hicas. After getting rid of the DTSS my NA was alot more stable once sideways. Before it the car would step out and was too twitchy. It would seem ok for a sec then step around. Im not a pro driver, but there is a deffinte improvement without the rear steer.
You can say what you want but I found from experience that it is alot more stable for me.
And the power is amazing for drift. I could not slide in my NA in 3rd gear. I think hachis can pull it off with out torque because they are soo small and they have tiny tires. Maybe if I ran 185 55 14 I could keep the car sideway longer.

Lsnaple

i just got rid of my 92 240 and bought a base 88 rx7 today. i will agree to a couple posts that the 240's are kinda unpredictable when sliding and are underpowered, but they are very fun cars. i would have even bought another one had i not found my rx7.

im so excited that i bought this car, too bad i cant pick it up untill monday. (couldnt take the money out of the bank today) .

Lsnaple

i just got rid of my 92 240 and bought a base 88 rx7 today. i will agree to a couple posts that the 240's are kinda unpredictable when sliding and are underpowered, but they are very fun cars. i would have even bought another one had i not found my rx7.

ForsakenRX7

I learned something the hard way a couple days ago. I couldnt get my car to slide throughout the turns. I tried and tried to no avail. Then I then realized I was running 20 psi in the rears from the dragstrip! DOH! So I immediatly filled em to 40psi in the rear with 32 psi front. Immediate change in characteristics in the car. So now I can get her to slide but I just need more practice. I cant seem to get it to the right angle before the turn. I also had an idea regarding the rear steer eliminators. How would the car react to leaving the DTSS in and using an aftermarket link to zero out the rear camber?

mazdized

mazdized

A stock characteristic is under steer over all. My S5 will under steer with gripping environment which is with out induced over steer, the car is over all a understeering car. The drifts are purposely induced and once it hangs out there it just hangs out there. In a gripping situation it definitely understeers as you power out the exit.

mazdized

It"s all good Ted. Like I have said what I found is throgh out my personal experience and I am just putting out what happend to me and hopefully some one can benifite or be entertained from it. I absolutely agree that drifting can have many different lines to adjust and I think that is what makes it fun and technical as well. I do agree with DTSS it is twitching at first but more stable once it is hanging out there ( at an angle with more than about one turn of counter.) I have to add by more stable and controlable with DTSS is when I am in it and off the gas with maybe light braking and sliding in while holding the angle. With DTSS I do think it is more UNSTABLE when EXITING under power, but like I said for me I need stability when entering the corner. I can not slide NA in third either, if I ever said I was in third I meant going in with the speed of third and then down shift to second than come out. Once aging to add with more detail is that I thinkwith DTSS is more stable when I am coming in in third about 75-80 mph and do a little swing and lightly tap on the brake to induce the drift and while countering and tapping on the brakes at the same time I down shift to second and then exsit from about 40-45 mph or do a swtich into an opposite drift. That is when I need DTSS, any other time DTSS does not make any difference and like I said infact it is a little unstable when coming out under full throttle with DTSS. WIll if SLide has eliminator bushing and then that is that. Ofcourse every one has different style and approch. Me for instant I almost nerver use the e brake and clutch popping I do some times but it does not seem to do much. BTW Steve O was out here driving the same S13 I drove at D6 and I have to say I liked his dories down the straight at Hyper Fest.

RETed

After this weekend's Drift Session, we got a little more data on slidingsky's car.&nbsp The car weighs in a miraculous 2500#!!!&nbsp The car is stripped, but the stock dash and sound deadening is still installed.&nbsp Almost everything else that's nonessential has been removed.&nbsp I was thinking maybe 2600#, but to get it come in at an even 2500# is almost unheard of.&nbsp The car is a 1990 Turbo II.&nbsp The car has an OS Giken triple in it now; we had to readjust the Haltech E11 to compensate for the faster revs.&nbsp slidingsky loves how fast it revs now; engagement is violent! The Koni's are not set front full stiff and rears backed out 1 full turn from full stiff.&nbsp The owner is still running the screwed up spring rates (450 all four corners), but the shock adjustment did get the car to settle down a little better.&nbsp slidingsky is still learning, but he's having a lot of fun right now.&nbsp I got some serious seat time this session, and the whole session was positive at the end.&nbsp The car still does not have the crazy steering angle, but the prototype arms have been made, and we should be running a set of them within the next two months!&nbsp We'll see if the increased steering angle will allow us to hang the tail out farther.&nbsp We were trying to concentrate on the "chokus" this session, and the FC is still not as dramatic as the Nissans or the Hachis.&nbsp The car is making some serious power (over 200#/ft estimated), and only the top SR20 S13's are making more power.&nbsp The FC is responding well to the higher power levels - the "front straight" which would normally handle an average of 5 choku's, we got the car to slide halfway down the track with the car stable on one choku!&nbsp slidingsky got freaked the car wasn't rotating, so he spun right after than.&nbsp I told him just to hold it if the car is that stable - you really need power to pull something like this off...

Nice to catch you in SJ last week - hope to catch you guys soon and talk some ****!


-Ted

JagdStealth

Great to hear! I'm glad you're making progress and I can't wait to see what the new arms do!!

I hope you'll be making a few sets

HyperRex

Oh crap. I wondered why I was suddenly getting hits on my Xanga page. I am going to be compiling everything into a single page on driftsession.com in a couple weeks, because it's very hard to sift through my Xanga to find RX-7 info. Does anyone really want to read about Matto's chocolate banana? I have no idea.

I thought I'd make a few comments on the thread so far.

- Option magazine did a breakdown on what components the D1 cars were running this past two seasons. I think only one or two cars total were actually running 2-way LSDs. The vast majority of drivers were using 1.5 or 1-way units, split almost equally among the two of them.

- Tein HE. I have no idea how they could possibly be better for drifting than any other adjustable coilover, but from a marketing standpoint, they're blowing off the shelves. I think they're a good buy only because you can get them serviced in the US, as opposed to say, Cusco.

- It bothers me that FCs have a bad rep for drifting down here. I used to own a 240SX with an SR20det, Autronic standalone yadda yadda. It's certainly a much easier car to drive in the sense that it feels like a Honda - very upright seating position and low dashboard; lots of glass. I think the FC is by far a better car however, which is why I'm sticking with it. Todd made a very good point about my modified spindles, however - the steering angle limitation is the tire hitting the lower control arm. This is why Haraguchi's car has such low offset wheels: he needs them in order to have more steering angle. It's possible to space out the stock 7" wheels for the same effect, so I'm grabbing a set of 1" threaded spacers tonight. I also know we're going to have to hammer the crap out of my fender wells. Fun fun fun. This weekend, if we have time, we're also going to make new strut tower tops, so that should be interesting. I suppose I could start posting pics in here.

- The FC project is fun, but the next thing on our plate is to build a tubular sub-frame for the S13 that moves the steering rack 2" forward. Compared to the FC, that mod could put the FC back into the stone-age, comparably. =(

mazdized

HEHE hey Ted I Just got back from D day 7 and it was fun. I got 360s down and twice I linked it into a right drift. ... yeeehaaa. Drove J-spec's yellow S13 and Doried for the first time and pulled it off and linked it into the drift. Thumbs up for S13. I did not think I could pull the dori with a car I never driven before and never trying it before, but with S13 I think I can try it in 3 rd gear next time.

JagdStealth

Which car were you driving out there?

I was there for my first time in the Black Turbo II with the Wat RS8s...

my stupid 12" momo wheel made it a PITA to try and counter steer with manual steering...

$150FC

So, I don't drift, and this is kind of off topic, but has anybody ever tried to make a drift-REPU?

mazdized

White S5 GTU. I never like small steering wheel, it is like ape hangers on a bike, how can you possibly operate when the geometry is all fucked up.

JagdStealth

I'll be switching back to the stock one for now (or finding a larger one) I bought it thinking that it was a larger wheel, but it was an older, smaller, model!

You looked pretty good out there!

T2R7

we need a special section on this site dedicated to drift. i want to get into drift a little bit, and deff wanna read more about it. (especially the bushings and rear springs/ shocks)
Josh