Healing

Specifically, on an 88 SE...

Or I was thinking maybe you could just do the conversion, and enter it in stock as a sport model?

micah

You should be fine. Enter it as you normally would.. but, check the allowances from SCCA before you proceed with the upgrade if you are worried about it. Its my understanding that if it was offered in your year/type of car, its allowed as long as you upgrade that entire system.

Though, I can't imagine them checking either.

Healing

Here are a few excerpts taken from http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Rules/stock.html#s13:

"Except for modifications authorized below, Stock Category cars must be run as specified by the factory with only standard equipment as defined by these Rules. This requirement refers not just to individual parts, but to combinations thereof which which would have been ordered together on a specific car. Any other modifications or equipment will place the car in Street Prepared, Prepared or Modified Categories as appropriate."

and

"Option package conversions may be performed between specific vehicles of a particular make and model, but only between configurations from within a particular model year. Such conversions must be totally complete and the resultant car must meet all requirements of this section. Alternate parts listed in a factory parts manual are not authorized unless their use is specifically referenced in the factory service manual or in a service bulletin for the specific model."

micah

So, did you already know that and asked anyways? Why did I answer?

Oh well. at least I was right.

Healing

Haha, well I'm still kind of confused as to the wording of those paragraphs. I mean, I guess it really depends if the brakes are considered "standard equipment" or an "option package", which would kind of let it go both ways depending on interpretation. I would think that it wouldn't be a big deal since this makes makes my SE like the Sport, sans the aluminum hood and rear LSD, but I'm not too sure how **** they are about this stuff either...

micah

If your car didn't come with it.. but there was a trim that did... that would make it an "option package". So you'll have to do the entire upgrade. Meaning, if the booster/mc is different you'll have to do those too..

but honestly, they probably won't care as long as it LOOKS stock-esque and isn't blatant cheating. I've seen people get away with crazy mods.

Healing

Cool, thanks =D

Black91n/a

For instance if the base model came with manual steering and an open diff and the higher up model had power steering and an LSD you couldn't run in stock class with manual steering and an LSD since that option combination was never offered.

So unless you change everything to what a 5 lug model had then it's illegal. That's everything, including things like AC and sunroofs.

micah

I'm pretty sure thats incorrect actually. Each upgrade must be complete.... So, if you upgrade the calipers, you have to upgrade the entire brake system to that of the other trim level. You can't JUST upgrade the front calipers/rotors... I don't think that applies to the entire car and ALL features.

jdmsuper7

iTrader: (1)

No, black91n/a is right. It has to be a combination of everything that the upgrade came with (i.e. a GXL conversion) to be legal.

That said, unless you have an ultra completive region probably no one will challenge it unless you are winning.

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

Yeah, thats my interpretation of it too.
You would get the best answers in the racing section, though. Jgrewe in particular seems to know a lot about SCCA rules.

micah

They really leave it up to interpretation or lead you into believing that "who knows" and "we'll see when you get here".

Okay, so:
"Except for modifications authorized below, Stock Category cars must be run as specified by the factory with only standard equipment as defined by these Rules. This requirement refers not just to individual parts, but to combinations thereof which which would have been ordered together on a specific car."

Means that other than brake pads, brake lines (pre 92) and speed bleeders, ONLY "standard" parts are allowed. Here's the definition of standard parts:

"12.4 Standard Part

An item of standard or optional equipment that could have been ordered with the car, installed on the factory production line, and delivered through a dealer in the United States. Dealer-installed options or deletions, except as required by factory directives, no matter how common or what their origin, are not included in this definition. This definition does not allow the updating or backdating of parts. "

So... what sucks is that for your 88, you would have to upgrade it to the GXL.... For me on my 91.. I could get away with JUST the brakes..

SUCK TO BE YOU! hehe.

micah

Wait a sec... I assume you are trying to get into ITS right? Check the backdate charts man.. anything between 86-91 is allowed.

ITS restrictions globally for brakes say you can't have anything other than the original MC, but you can change the rest of the brake system circuitry...

Specifically to the FC3S it says:
16" wheel not allowed. 5th/6th intake port actuators and valves may be removed or disabled.

Other than that, anything 86-91 should be allowed.

Black91n/a

He said stock class, that's autocross.

It's been discussed a bunch of times on the Miata board where I also hang out, and you need to have the complete conversion, you can't half do it, as you would not have been able to order one from the dealer like that, there was no 4pot brake option, it was a standard part for a certain trim level.

inflatablepets

I doubt anyone will say anything. I used to run street prepared with a S5 GTU that I did the 4 pot swap to. It's really not going to put an extreme advantage on you.besides, it's all about having a good time.

Fault Bucket

The simplest way to put it is this: if you could have bought the car brand new with the combination of options you're considering, it's legal for stock class. If the combination you have in mind was never available from the factory, it's illegal.

That said, you'll likely not get too much heat about minor changes like what you describe at a local event. Just be upfront about it and don't try to hide it.

Healing

Hmm...well in any case, if people really care or not, I could just find an aluminum hood, S4 clutch type LSD and sport wing to complete the transformation if anyone cares, lol. As if it'd really hurt me if I did

Fault Bucket: BTW, is that your red FC I always see in the Issaquah highlands Park and Ride?

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

FYI, no FC model specifically had either an aluminum or a steel hood. It was pretty much random, though most TII hoods were aluminum.

Fault Bucket

heh, define 'always'

Yeah, if you're talking about a red FC with anthracite SSR GT7s then that's mine. I don't drive down very often though...my wife usually drops me off.

Black91n/a

Don't be so quick to discount it as no-one cares. At a regional level that's more likely to be true, but the national guys race there too, and many of them will certainly care. Some people are super **** about it and believe that if you have any part that's not allowed in the rules, even if you're in last place and the rest of the car's totally underprepared then you're still cheating and shouldn't be doing so. The fact is the rules are the same for everyone and while some might accept it locally, they might not be happy about it and you're putting them in the position of accepting a cheater or looking like an *** in front of all their racing buddies and making a fuss about it. Especially in stock class these things are important as a small difference can make the difference between winning and loosing. For a higher up class then one small additional thing where there's lots of untapped potential is way more acceptable. What happens when you beat someone whose playing by the rules, how is that fair for them?

I run SM2 even though my car's more of a CSP car (not STS2 due to diff, wheels 1/2" too wide and no cats), but I've got a couple mods (steering and transmission) that aren't allowed in CSP, so I don't race there, I race in SM2 where I'm 100% legal.

You may be doing it just for fun, but some of them are there to race and are taking it all very seriously.

Healing

Yeah, I mean I'm sure I'm not nearly as serious as some people, but I definitely want to compete as well. I guess, to be on the safe side, it sounds like entering as a Sport FC would be my best bet if I want to appease everyone. Luckily it's not too hard to make the changeover since all N/A FCs run in E stock anyways. My main concern was just making sure I don't get placed in STS or SM for a minor upgrade that FCs are running in stock class...

That's the one, haha. Looks clean, looks good! If you ever see me, I'm the stock blue '88 SE. Well, not like there are many other FCs running around the garage anyways, lol