After month of stockpiling parts for a large turbo upgrade, I think I am now going to go with something a bit smaller, like I had originally intended. 2 main reasons, one being reliability(stock wiring/sensors are easier to troubleshoot than Haltech systems), and 2 is ease of installation. I dont want to worry about having to call someone or drive to a shop if something were to go wrong with my haltech. So now I am going back to what I originally had a year ago, a S5 hybrid with stock wiring. With this comes one question. Ive spent so much time researching larger turbos and ECUs , Im not sure how far I can go with the stock ECU and just piggybacks. Say I am running a hybrid, 720cc secondaries and one of those new Rtek 1.7 chips... what kind of power, and what boost levels would be safe to shoot for?

 

I don't want to complicate you choices - but - are you sure you want to go back to using the AFM?
It will be your main restriction.

Have you read any of the buzz on the new Wolf 3D?
It looks like it will be way more user friendly..

 

Complicate away Yea the AFM is the main kick in the nuts about the stock ECU, but I really dont think it is as huge of a deal as people make it out to be. Is is a small restiction..of course. Will it rob 50 horsepower, no. I havent looked into the new Wolf3D, maybe Ill check it out, thanks. But If I can get~300 RWHP on a hybrid and a stock ECU, and do it reliably, I think I will go that route.

 

The hybrid route is what I am currently doing turbowise. I would think if you want to say on stock ECU, an SAFC and a wideband, 720's all around, and a properly built and sized hybrid will get you to over 300rwhp. At this level, boost creep does become an issue...many people say that they cannot hold full boost until redline.

Is your hybrid stock, unclipped turbine? To what extent have you ported the wastegate?

 

yeah deffinatley go 720's all around, you will need an safc and a wideband due to the fact the rtek is made for the stock turbo and 720 secondaries only. The main reason I got it was basically because it retards timing over 9psi. and later will be able to data log with it.

 

NoooooOOOOo Lenny don't give up! You can install and tune that thing!

--Fritz

 

Im not giving up, Im just coming to the realization that I may have gone a bit overboard with the modifications. A nicely sized hybrid will still be plenty fast, and hopefully be much more streetable of a car in the long run.

 

what are you doing with all your stuff?

 

Im selling the haltech and the turbo setup. Anyone interested, PM me.

 

The 1.7 will probably cover nearly everything the stock turbo can throw at you; it won't be enough for most hybrids. I believe Henrik is however thinking about offering other injector combo's with later ecu releases.

You have a couple of options here. If you really want to stick with the stock ecu you can either go with a piggy back or an AIC. Let's look at the AIC's first:

My favorite AIC right now would be the greddy e-manage. With the purchase of the greddy map sensor/gm map sensor/clone map sensor, the additional injectors would be controlled on a 16 x 16 map that is based off of MAP and RPM's. You will want to get a couple of injector bosses and have them welded onto the 2nd and 3rd upper intake runner.

You could also go with a haltech f5, or a greddy rebic. These are not as sophisticated as the e-manage in their delievery of the fuel. They are Map based, but the adjustment for how much fuel is injected as the air pressure is increased is very simple. You'll find that a lot of people will like to bash the f5, it's not the most technologically advanced super wizzbang thing out right now, but it'll get the job done - for cheap.

Piggybacks - you can go with some sort of safc, or the e-manage again. You're probably a lot more familiar with these. For the price, I honestly think the e-manage is the better deal here. You get a 16 x 16 adjust map for the afm correction as opposed to a 8/12 x 2 adjustment on the safc. However, many of the later rtek releases will have some sort of fuel adjustment built into them as well.

4 x 720cc injectors should cover you up to 300rwhp if you want to go this route.

 

Must...resist desire...to buy...Haltech......

 

I looked into the E-manage, and while it looks very promising, it also looks very complicated. FOr that much hassle.. it would just be easier to go standalone Id think? Personally I was looking into the S-AFC + RTek 1.7. Sure the SAFC isnt the most advanced thing out there, but it should do what I want it to do just fine, which would be tune in for the 720 primaries that the RTek cant do. I would still get the advantage of the timing retard over 9PSI that the Rtek gives. Opinions?

 

remember you going to have to tune the secondaries as well because they are tuned for stock turbo.

 

That would work just fine as well.


If you can solder in the safc, just a few more wires and you have a completed e-manage. In this day and age I assume that most people have access to at least a very basic/archaic laptop.


I'd personally keep the haltech.

 

Im not saying anything bad about the Haltech per-say, but there are a few reasons it would be advantageous for me to stay with the stock ECU.
1) Emissions - In my area , I need emissions testing. Im not saying that it is impossible to pass with a haltech, but it will be harder than staying with the stock setup. Id have no ACV, have to run an electric airpump, and still may have difficulities
2) Tuning- I am at least a 3 hour drive from the nearest place that I would trust anyone to tune my haltech. I know the S-AFC would still need fine tuning, but nothing as extensive as a full standalone.
3) Drivability. This is kind of an iffy issue, but I know alot of cars that never run quite as smooth with a standalone as they did with a stock ECU.

Perhaps I will look into the E-manage more, I admit I really know next to nothing about it. Do I have to use it as a AIC, or will it tune larger stock placement injectors as well?

 

If you don't have to pass a visual, then you can easily pass emissions with any stand alone. You can keep the stock air pump on, or if it won't fit run a lt1/ls1 elec. air pump like you've mentioned. The ACV really is not needed. Just run hose from the air pump straight to the lower split air pipe into the cat of your choice.

Tuning is understandable concern, however nearly every stand alone fc/fd I've seen has run much, MUCH smoother than the stock ecu. This ties into the tuning issue. It's much easier to blow up an engine with an e6k than it is with a safc, although both are more than capable.

The e-manage can do the exact same thing the safc does; alter the afm signal. The safc does this on a low and a high map with either 8 or 12 rpm points depending on which version you have. This corresponds to either 16 or 24 possible tuning points (2 x 8 or a 2 x 12 matrix). The e-manage has 256 available points (16 x 16 matrix, for every map)

 

A test only station gave me a pass on the S-AFC II, they just said some other places will fail you on that, so I guess I just got lucky.

It isn't completely founded, but for whatever reason I have heard people telling me they were very dissapointed with their e-manage. If it has more RPM adjustment points than an S-AFC II, I can't see how it's so bad.