crank but wouldn't start...no spark =(
09-26-09, 08:55 PM
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crank but wouldn't start...no spark =(
my fc is n/a, few months ago i took off the dash along with the dash wiring harness to remove the carpet and sound deadening. i put everything back today the car cranks but it just won't start! i took off one plug wire, used a spare plug to see if there's any sparks and there was none... i think i might have fucked up somewhere with the dash wiring, or is it not part of the ignition...please help i need the car running =(
09-26-09, 09:09 PM
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Check and make sure the ENGINE fuse in the interior is good and that the EGI fuses in the engine bay fuse box are good.
IF you jumper the yellow two socket fuel pump check connector and put the key to ON, do you hear the fuel flowing thru the fuel rails and hear the pump humming???? Should. IF you do hear the pump, then the ENGINE fuse is good for sure.
The ENGINE fuse pulls in the Main Relay which in turn feeds juice to the Computer and injectors plus also to the coils. So if you have no spark, it's either a bad engine fuse or one of the EGI fuse is kaput.
The grounds for the Main Relay is in the engine bay and located under the trail coil assy. If you did not work in this area, then the gnd should be good for the main relay.
IF you jumper the yellow two socket fuel pump check connector and put the key to ON, do you hear the fuel flowing thru the fuel rails and hear the pump humming???? Should. IF you do hear the pump, then the ENGINE fuse is good for sure.
The ENGINE fuse pulls in the Main Relay which in turn feeds juice to the Computer and injectors plus also to the coils. So if you have no spark, it's either a bad engine fuse or one of the EGI fuse is kaput.
The grounds for the Main Relay is in the engine bay and located under the trail coil assy. If you did not work in this area, then the gnd should be good for the main relay.
09-26-09, 10:53 PM
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S4 N/A??.there is a black relay under the steering column.with a Yellow base.
That is the Fuel Relay..Plug it Back in.without it the car won't start.No fuel to the injectors.
That is the Fuel Relay..Plug it Back in.without it the car won't start.No fuel to the injectors.
09-28-09, 09:07 PM
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http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/9760/dsc0148gx.jpg
if yes then ya, its disconnected somehow...here's a picture of the other end of the two black wires
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8931/dsc0146rh.jpg
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/266/dsc0145hb.jpg
where are they suppose to connect to...? thx for the help i really need the car on the road =(
09-29-09, 09:46 PM
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The circuit opening relay in your jpgs does not control spark at all. BUT it does control the fuel pump. I don't know what to say about that mess. I can't tell if it's connected up right or not. Seems, maybe, perhaps the two black wires were going to a swtich to disable the relay and fuel pump. Might just twist 'em together and see if the fuel pump works if the yellow two socket plug in the engine bay is jumpered with key ON.
You never even looked to see if the ENGINE fuse was good or bad. Shame.
ENGINE fuse controls the MAIN RELAY which in turn feeds power to the ECU and the fuel injectors.
You never even looked to see if the ENGINE fuse was good or bad. Shame.
ENGINE fuse controls the MAIN RELAY which in turn feeds power to the ECU and the fuel injectors.
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09-29-09, 11:43 PM
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The circuit opening relay in your jpgs does not control spark at all. BUT it does control the fuel pump. I don't know what to say about that mess. I can't tell if it's connected up right or not. Seems, maybe, perhaps the two black wires were going to a swtich to disable the relay and fuel pump. Might just twist 'em together and see if the fuel pump works if the yellow two socket plug in the engine bay is jumpered with key ON.
You never even looked to see if the ENGINE fuse was good or bad. Shame.
ENGINE fuse controls the MAIN RELAY which in turn feeds power to the ECU and the fuel injectors.
You never even looked to see if the ENGINE fuse was good or bad. Shame.
ENGINE fuse controls the MAIN RELAY which in turn feeds power to the ECU and the fuel injectors.
thx for the helping guys
09-30-09, 06:07 AM
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Did you check the fuses in the interior fuse box?
The ENGINE fuse supplys power to the Main Relay and the Circuit Opening Relay (fuel pump relay if you will).
IF the meter fuse is good, then get a meter out and put the key to ON. Either of the two wires on the coils should show batt voltage.
Or put your hand on the MAIN RELAY in the engine bay. It's the large relay near the trail coil assy. Put your hand on it and turn the key to ON. That relay should be HEARD to click when you do that.
A jumper wire is just a piece of electrical wire that you bare both ends on. Then you stick one end of that jumper wire in one socket of the yellow, two socket fuel pump check connector and put the other end of that jumper wire into the other socket of that yellow, two socket fuel pump check connector.
The fuel pump check connector is yellow and has two sockets. It's located near the right front strut tower and is not bolted or tied down to anything. It's withing a few inches of the boost/pressure sensor and aft of the airflow meter/air filter assy.
You jumper the yellow two socket fuel pump check connector and then put the key to ON. Fuel pump runs continuously if you do that and the car is wired right at the circuit opening relay.
This has NOTHING to do with spark, but does determine if the fuel pump is working or not.
The ENGINE fuse supplys power to the Main Relay and the Circuit Opening Relay (fuel pump relay if you will).
IF the meter fuse is good, then get a meter out and put the key to ON. Either of the two wires on the coils should show batt voltage.
Or put your hand on the MAIN RELAY in the engine bay. It's the large relay near the trail coil assy. Put your hand on it and turn the key to ON. That relay should be HEARD to click when you do that.
A jumper wire is just a piece of electrical wire that you bare both ends on. Then you stick one end of that jumper wire in one socket of the yellow, two socket fuel pump check connector and put the other end of that jumper wire into the other socket of that yellow, two socket fuel pump check connector.
The fuel pump check connector is yellow and has two sockets. It's located near the right front strut tower and is not bolted or tied down to anything. It's withing a few inches of the boost/pressure sensor and aft of the airflow meter/air filter assy.
You jumper the yellow two socket fuel pump check connector and then put the key to ON. Fuel pump runs continuously if you do that and the car is wired right at the circuit opening relay.
This has NOTHING to do with spark, but does determine if the fuel pump is working or not.
10-01-09, 08:14 AM
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The BLUE wire in the igniton switch feeds the ACC row of fuses in the interior.
Whoever attached that car at the ignition switch made a major mistake. He should have gone to the ignition switch connectors located about a half foot fwd of the switch itself.
There you will find three connectors. ONe connector has a BLACK wire and a BLACK/WHITE wire in the connector (talking colors on the Front harness half of the plug, NOT the pigtail part).
Those two wires are the most improtant wires. Key to ON causes power to pass thru the ignition switch from the black TO the black/white wire. The black/white wire then goes to the interior fuse box and feeds a row of fuses. That row has the ENGINE fuse on it. Very important fuse.
Another plug at the switch has a Black/Red wire and a Blue wire. The BLUE feeds the ACC bus and the Black/Red feeds a row of fuses that have the wipers etc on it. Car starts and runs without these two wires functioning.
The last plug has a single wire in it and is usually Black/red and it feeds the starter solenoid when the key is HELD to start. ON an automatic car the color is Black/Green.
Whoever attached that car at the ignition switch made a major mistake. He should have gone to the ignition switch connectors located about a half foot fwd of the switch itself.
There you will find three connectors. ONe connector has a BLACK wire and a BLACK/WHITE wire in the connector (talking colors on the Front harness half of the plug, NOT the pigtail part).
Those two wires are the most improtant wires. Key to ON causes power to pass thru the ignition switch from the black TO the black/white wire. The black/white wire then goes to the interior fuse box and feeds a row of fuses. That row has the ENGINE fuse on it. Very important fuse.
Another plug at the switch has a Black/Red wire and a Blue wire. The BLUE feeds the ACC bus and the Black/Red feeds a row of fuses that have the wipers etc on it. Car starts and runs without these two wires functioning.
The last plug has a single wire in it and is usually Black/red and it feeds the starter solenoid when the key is HELD to start. ON an automatic car the color is Black/Green.
10-02-09, 07:33 AM
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Naw. Just saw the Blue wire and it pissed me off that someone would cut that wire AT the swtich.
The only wires on the ignition switch that effect starting of the car are:::: the plug with a single wire, the B/R is power to the starter so the engine will turn over..................The BLACK/WHITE wire that feeds the interior fuse box where the ENGINE fuse is............and the pure BLACK wire that feeds the other two wires when the key is turned to the appropriate position.
When a person is concerned with the ignition switch, he should look at the PLUGS that connect to the ignition swith pigtail, NOT the wires crimped/soldered to the ignitioin switch pigtail.
That said, I'm clueless what that BLUE wire AT the ignition switch does in life. I'll look this morning at a car and get back with you on that BLUE wire.
IN the earlier post I was trying to explain how the ignition switch works.
If you turn the key to just ON, the MAIN RELAY should pull in . The MAIN RELAY is near the TRAIL COIL ASSY and is large in size. Most have a somewhat golden color to them. If you working by yourself, go to that relay. It has TWO elect plugs on it. One plug has but two wires. Disconnect that plug. Now go turn the key to just ON. Go back to that two wire plug on the Main RElay and reconnect it. When you do the relay should click.
IF it clicks, that confirms the ENGINE fuse is good and the MAIN RELAY is good to some extent. The ENGINE fuse supplys power to the fuel pump and the circuit opening relay.
The MAIN RELAY supplys power to the ECU.....the fuel injectors.....the coils.....and solenoids on the engine from the EGI fuses in the engine bay fuse box.
YOur original complaint was lack of spark. So that's why I mentioned the MAIN RELAY and ENGINE fuse. So do what I just suggested to make sure the MAIN RELAY and ENGINE fuse are good.
I'll look into the BLUE wire rivited to the ignition switch in a hour or so give or take depending on if I want to go sculling today or not. Looking at the car means I've got to get up....open the door.........walk to the car........open it's door...........kneel down and open my eyes. Lot of trouble.
The only wires on the ignition switch that effect starting of the car are:::: the plug with a single wire, the B/R is power to the starter so the engine will turn over..................The BLACK/WHITE wire that feeds the interior fuse box where the ENGINE fuse is............and the pure BLACK wire that feeds the other two wires when the key is turned to the appropriate position.
When a person is concerned with the ignition switch, he should look at the PLUGS that connect to the ignition swith pigtail, NOT the wires crimped/soldered to the ignitioin switch pigtail.
That said, I'm clueless what that BLUE wire AT the ignition switch does in life. I'll look this morning at a car and get back with you on that BLUE wire.
IN the earlier post I was trying to explain how the ignition switch works.
If you turn the key to just ON, the MAIN RELAY should pull in . The MAIN RELAY is near the TRAIL COIL ASSY and is large in size. Most have a somewhat golden color to them. If you working by yourself, go to that relay. It has TWO elect plugs on it. One plug has but two wires. Disconnect that plug. Now go turn the key to just ON. Go back to that two wire plug on the Main RElay and reconnect it. When you do the relay should click.
IF it clicks, that confirms the ENGINE fuse is good and the MAIN RELAY is good to some extent. The ENGINE fuse supplys power to the fuel pump and the circuit opening relay.
The MAIN RELAY supplys power to the ECU.....the fuel injectors.....the coils.....and solenoids on the engine from the EGI fuses in the engine bay fuse box.
YOur original complaint was lack of spark. So that's why I mentioned the MAIN RELAY and ENGINE fuse. So do what I just suggested to make sure the MAIN RELAY and ENGINE fuse are good.
I'll look into the BLUE wire rivited to the ignition switch in a hour or so give or take depending on if I want to go sculling today or not. Looking at the car means I've got to get up....open the door.........walk to the car........open it's door...........kneel down and open my eyes. Lot of trouble.
10-02-09, 07:49 AM
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I took a look. NO, that cut Blue wire will not cause the car to not run. IT attaches to the blue wire on the front harness and feeds the ACC bus.
Loss of ACC just means the radio and other junk items won't get power.
Someday you might try to solder that Blue wire back together and put shrink tubing over it. If they felt compelled to cut the wire, they should have cut it a couple of inches or more back from the switch. They left not much to work with by cutting it so close to the switch.
Think ENGIE FUSE and MAIN RELAY as to why there is no spark.
A clue as to whether or not the ignition key is feeding the interior fuse box, is to turn the key ON and then turn the wipers on to see if they work or turn the turn signals on to see if they work.
IF the TURN signals and the gauges work, then the row of fuses with the ENGINE fuse are all getting power. Meaning the ENGINE fuse is putting out power to pull in the MAIN RELAY and power the fuel pump when the circuit opening relay if that relay is wired right.
Loss of ACC just means the radio and other junk items won't get power.
Someday you might try to solder that Blue wire back together and put shrink tubing over it. If they felt compelled to cut the wire, they should have cut it a couple of inches or more back from the switch. They left not much to work with by cutting it so close to the switch.
Think ENGIE FUSE and MAIN RELAY as to why there is no spark.
A clue as to whether or not the ignition key is feeding the interior fuse box, is to turn the key ON and then turn the wipers on to see if they work or turn the turn signals on to see if they work.
IF the TURN signals and the gauges work, then the row of fuses with the ENGINE fuse are all getting power. Meaning the ENGINE fuse is putting out power to pull in the MAIN RELAY and power the fuel pump when the circuit opening relay if that relay is wired right.
10-03-09, 11:25 AM
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Replace the fuse that is in the hump (raised position) with a new 7.5 amp fuse you should be good. Trust HAILERS and me on this I got suck at the store after work at 12:00 and was there for an hour on the phone with one of my boys thats a rotory head.I replace the fuse with a different size.Soon as I replace than fuse with the 7.5 RoXy fired right up and it's been good ever scene then.
10-03-09, 10:24 PM
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i replaced the main fuse(7.5 one) with a new one, also checked the main relay the one HAILERS told me to, disconnect 2 wire plug, turn key to ON, connect again, i did NOT hear a "click" however, oh and wipers work
10-04-09, 06:37 AM
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ENGINE fuse is the one I thought needed looking at. It's in the interior fuse box.
The MAIN fuse is in the engine bay fuse box. It is held in with two small bolts. And is probably good since you have power to the wipers with key ON. The ignition switch feeds that row of fuses from the MAIN relay.
Seems you picked up another problem with the Start circuit. Start circuit on a series four is like this.......Black wire from the MAIN fuse feeds the igniton switch...........turn key to START and the igniton switch feeds the Red/Black wire on the switches harness............power goes from that B/R wire to the clutch interlock switch........leaves the interlock switch if the clutch pedal is depressed............goes to the starter cut relay in the engine bay if you have Theft protection or if you don't have that, goes to a BLUE jumper connector on the harness under the trail coil assy..........leaves that item and goes to a connector b/t the Blue jumper connector and starter.........then to the starter solenoid to turn the starter over.
Anytime I talk about the color wires on the ignition switch I'm NOT talking the wires right AT the switch, but the wire colors of the three plugs on the igniton switch pigtail that are located about a foot fwd of the switch itself. And then only the colors on the Front harness side of the plugs.
Answer this: do your turn signals work with key to ON? If yes, then the ENGINE fuse is good and no need to look at it. Same thing if your gauges work. IF they work..engine fuse is good.
If you don't have a digital meter, buy one. Can't help unless there is a meter. The only other way is to be a *parts swapper*. Expensive and dumb way to fix anything from car to airplanes.
I keep harping on the ENGINE fuse because it feeds the fuel pump via the circuit opening relay and also pulls in the Main Relay which feeds the ECU power and the trail and lead coils power plus the fuel injectors power.
The MAIN fuse is in the engine bay fuse box. It is held in with two small bolts. And is probably good since you have power to the wipers with key ON. The ignition switch feeds that row of fuses from the MAIN relay.
Seems you picked up another problem with the Start circuit. Start circuit on a series four is like this.......Black wire from the MAIN fuse feeds the igniton switch...........turn key to START and the igniton switch feeds the Red/Black wire on the switches harness............power goes from that B/R wire to the clutch interlock switch........leaves the interlock switch if the clutch pedal is depressed............goes to the starter cut relay in the engine bay if you have Theft protection or if you don't have that, goes to a BLUE jumper connector on the harness under the trail coil assy..........leaves that item and goes to a connector b/t the Blue jumper connector and starter.........then to the starter solenoid to turn the starter over.
Anytime I talk about the color wires on the ignition switch I'm NOT talking the wires right AT the switch, but the wire colors of the three plugs on the igniton switch pigtail that are located about a foot fwd of the switch itself. And then only the colors on the Front harness side of the plugs.
Answer this: do your turn signals work with key to ON? If yes, then the ENGINE fuse is good and no need to look at it. Same thing if your gauges work. IF they work..engine fuse is good.
If you don't have a digital meter, buy one. Can't help unless there is a meter. The only other way is to be a *parts swapper*. Expensive and dumb way to fix anything from car to airplanes.
I keep harping on the ENGINE fuse because it feeds the fuel pump via the circuit opening relay and also pulls in the Main Relay which feeds the ECU power and the trail and lead coils power plus the fuel injectors power.
10-04-09, 12:59 PM
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sry when i said main fuse i actually meant engine fuse, the one inside the car, i replaced it but it didnt change a thing. my gauge cluster does work, but only if i connect the black and yellow wire that's diconnected from the ignition switch, same with the signals. so ya, the engine fuse is good.
10-04-09, 01:16 PM
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Does the Main RELAY pull in when the key is put to ON? You can put your hand on it and have someone put the key to ON and you should feel the thing click and hear it click.
When you spin the engine over with the starter, does the tach make very small bumps up and down? IF it does that means the trails at least are firing. Means a number of other things are also ok.
When you spin the engine over with the starter, does the tach make very small bumps up and down? IF it does that means the trails at least are firing. Means a number of other things are also ok.
10-05-09, 08:58 PM
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So you say if you put the key to ON, and connect up a black/yellow wire at the ignition switch, then the gauges work, meaning the ENGINE fuse should also be getting power.
I suppose the black/yellow wire is on the pigtail side of the igniton switch plugs. I'm not going to go look at my car to see. If thats the case it must be mating with the black/white wire on the Front harness side of the plug. To power the IG1 bus on the interior fuse box.
Anyway, seeing as how you don't get the MAIN RELAY to pull in, then go pull the elect plug off the Main Relay that has just two wires (relay has two electrical connectors). Then with the key On and everything else connected together, probe the black/white wire in that two wire plug on the Main Relay. It should have batt power with key ON.
IF it does, then put the meter on ohms and check the OTHER wire in the two wire plug. IT should be going to gnd. IF it is a good ground, then suspect the Main Relay being bad. Never seen a bad one myself though.
Or to power things up, bypass the MAIN RELAY. Just pull the OTHER plug off the Main Relay and get two jumper wires and jumper those four wires in that plug together. Like the B/G to the B/Y and the B/W to the W/L. If you do that you bypass the Main Relay and the ECU will now be powered.......the coils will be powered........the fuel injectors will be powered. A normal car would now start if the key was put to Start.
Yours won't. The wiring is messed up somewhere/everywhere.
I suppose the black/yellow wire is on the pigtail side of the igniton switch plugs. I'm not going to go look at my car to see. If thats the case it must be mating with the black/white wire on the Front harness side of the plug. To power the IG1 bus on the interior fuse box.
Anyway, seeing as how you don't get the MAIN RELAY to pull in, then go pull the elect plug off the Main Relay that has just two wires (relay has two electrical connectors). Then with the key On and everything else connected together, probe the black/white wire in that two wire plug on the Main Relay. It should have batt power with key ON.
IF it does, then put the meter on ohms and check the OTHER wire in the two wire plug. IT should be going to gnd. IF it is a good ground, then suspect the Main Relay being bad. Never seen a bad one myself though.
Or to power things up, bypass the MAIN RELAY. Just pull the OTHER plug off the Main Relay and get two jumper wires and jumper those four wires in that plug together. Like the B/G to the B/Y and the B/W to the W/L. If you do that you bypass the Main Relay and the ECU will now be powered.......the coils will be powered........the fuel injectors will be powered. A normal car would now start if the key was put to Start.
Yours won't. The wiring is messed up somewhere/everywhere.
10-05-09, 10:22 PM
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ok i went and tried to replace that 7.5a fuse(one inside the car that sticks out) it blows everytime lol...how to do i replace it without it blowing...
this is the fuse i am talkin about...
this is the fuse i am talkin about...
Last edited by backfirez; 10-05-09 at 10:26 PM.
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