christi

Not any other "post" about coolant that has been posted.

I just want to know, from your prospective (sp)...

What is so different when using Green and Orange coolant?

how siginificant is the green coolant than the orange?

What proof (or thereof) have you seen that orange is bad for rotary engines and why?

My reasons to ask.. are because when I got the car, it did have the green stuff. Though my boyfriend and I thought it would be better to use orange.. I'm not even sure why now to be honest. I have spoken to a few people from mrccfl club and the guys around here... They told me to flush out my radiator and add the green coolant before something bad happens to my engine...

so...what is so bad about it?

Also...the %'tages...

50/50...75/25... all water and a little bit of coolant to be hard core.. which is more efficant (sp) to do?

Thanks again for the help

Node

iTrader: (1)

uhm, I don't think (from memory of watercooling) that more coolant means it is more efficient.
coolant prevents it from boiling and freezing.

christi

well, when I said 50/50.. 75/25.. I meant 50 water 50 coolant... 75 water.. 25 coolant...

but that still doesnt answer how bad orange is relatively from green like people say.

Node

iTrader: (1)

oops, i misread
thought you said "all coolant to be hardcore"
my bad

christi

no problem, but that still doesnt answer the question.

I REALLY need to know. I don't want to **** my engine up if it's true...

Evil Aviator

http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/cooling.html#ANT

bcty

look just use redline water wetter and water.. that would be your best bet and flush the coolant!! use green if u are gonna use any type of coolant other then water wetter

christi

Ok.. thanks.

I've never heard of water wetter.. what extactly is that?

but.. if anyone knows the answer(s) to my questions above.. please answer, as I am curious to know. Not knowing only leads me into further blankness.

Scott 89t2

the orange stuff is bad. even in most piston engines. I think there is only one brand/ type of engine it works with without damage. get the non evirvoment friendly green stuff. it's the best.

Evil Aviator

Didn't you read the link? If in doubt, then just flush it and fill with the green stuff.

It's a wetting agent. Yes, you can use it with water and no antifreeze. Yes, if you do this your engine block will crack in the winter, and your heater core may crack if you turn on the air conditioning, because Water Wetter is not anti-freeze.
http://www.redlineoil.com/products.htm

christi

Ok thanks.

I doubt I'll have problems with a crack engine block.. because FL never gets that cold .. to where things will 'freeze'.

87GTR

iTrader: (61)

to impress chicks I take the rad cap and show them the color of my coolant

banzaitoyota

My coolant is purple and doesn't need no stinkin' water wetter or for that fact water!!!!!!

christi

purple!?

SureShot

I just spent the last 10 minutes searching for a post from this spring. It described the pros & cons of various coolants. As I recall he said green was the the best overall. Orange will work, but they absolutely don't mix, so you must thorughly flush the system if you switch.
Mix ratio depends on climate: 25% in hotter climates, 50% in cold/winter climate..
Bill

banzaitoyota

Evans NPG+ is purple.
www.evanscooling.com

Kasei

I read an article somewhere and people say orange coolent actually ruining seals inside.
But beware, toyota's coolent is red. looks like snapple.
It was used on my 91 MR2 since it roll out of the facility in Japan, long life coolent they claim.
But I never heard of anybody pour it into their rotaries, I don want to be the first guy.

Evil Aviator

You wanna bet a $2,000 rebuild on that?
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news...ecord-cold.htm

christi

Ok, so maybe I'm wrong Evil....

Question on flushing....


I'm going to flush the orange outta there. Now... do I .. flush... add water, run the car.... come back .. flush.. add water, repeat this process.. .then eventually add the coolant/water?

Also, I'm thinking of adding Water Wetter( I think that's it) when I get through with all this - good or bad idea?

deadRX7Conv

Water wetter/purple ice/TowKool will help. They are not bad ideas. They will NOT fix an overheating problem. They could probable help prevent one.

Concerning coolant ratios: read your owners manual and the back of whatever bottle of antifreeze you use. Match it for your weather conditions.

I am not sure of the coolant capacities for the rotary engine vs the radiator. The problem with running the car with the garden hose attached(water flushing) is that once all the coolant is out, water is everywhere. This needs to be taken into consideration when adding the coolant/water mixture. You might need to add straight antifreeze to the radiator to make up for the water in the engine. Plus, I prefer to use distilled water over tap water.

Red/green/orange--As long as it is the ONLY one and at the proper ratios:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=93749

And then there is the Evans coolant that people are using and praising.
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=93197

If you do NOT have an overheating problem, then:
I rarely bother with flushes. I don't care for the recycled antifreeze that some shops use, or screwing up coolant water ratios.
I just drain/refill the radiator yearly(no flushing). This keeps the coolant clean and cooling system trouble free. I run 50:50. This gives me a little reserve if I spring a leak and need to add water when I am in the middle of nowhere.
I also use distilled water instead of tap water. And, I add a bottle of redline waterwetter. I have been using green antifreeze(prestone yellow bottle) for 15 years and haven't had any problems. I also converted several cars to orange Dexcool and have had no problems with them(5 years of use). And, I currently have 1 car running ~100 lowtoxprestone and sierra. The car actually runs better and doesn't ping on pizz gas anymore. I might have to change my anti-evans position. But, I still think that it cost way too much.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

well as far as the differences between "green" and "orange/red" ...

i read an article (it's in car & driver - not sure which issue, but i think it was the one where they tested the new ford GT40 ...)

anyway, if i understood the article ... the orange stuff was just an evolution of the green stuff (can't remember why the color changed). basically with the new metals that go into modern engines and modern-day cooling systems, the green stuff caused all sorts of corrosion and erosion problems.

the orange stuff was designed to work more harmoniously with these new metals. it gives slightly better cooling, and it gives water pump lubrication.

however, the reason why the article said you shouldn't use it in an "older" car is because it will slowly start to dismantle your radiator and water pump. it's not something that happens overnight, or even in a few months, but it WILL eventually eat them from the inside out. i don't think it harms the engine itself ...

they said not to mix green with orange under any circumstances, and basically not to put orange in anything that was originally green and vice versa. i don't know what type of coolant the Gen III Rx-7s came with, but i know that according to the C & D article, you're not supposed to use it in Gen I and Gen II cars ...

hope that helps ...

(oh and by the way, i used the orange stuff in my Gen I before i read the article, so i have to change back to green ... but the article said that you will have to flush the system as best you can, but you will probably never get it ALL out ... there will always be traces.)

deadRX7Conv

I read the c&d articles. It is typically reporter vague and biased, just like newspaper reporting. June-August-I think it was 2 articles. There are better articles from every automaker and EG/PG chemical supplier. Automakers also want to be different. They do not want you to be able to buy everything over the counter. They are trying to monopolize. GM(orange) wanted to be different than Ford(green). Chrysler(yellow/red/green) wanted to be different than all of them. Take a look at the other fluids--different ATF, pwr steering, transmission, gear.........

It won't dismantle anything from the inside out. I can't even do that with my $20,000 tool collection I do eat Oreo cookies from the inside out. What is the best way to eat a reese's peanut butter cup????

What is so different from an engine today and years ago? Aluminum iron....... doesn't change much.....I might worry about old/classic cars due to patched radiators, older lead welds, brass, copper, and other issues. My RX is not an old or classic domestic.
And there was no issue with green stuff corrosion. YOU JUST CAN'T EXPECT IT, OR ANY OTHER COOLANT TO LAST 5 YEARS. You're lucky if it is good for one year. You shouldn't mix the silicate/phospate/nitrate(old green) with the new OAT orange. But, the H(ybrid)OAT that some automakers use combine the silicate with the OAT(some of the red/blues/yellows). Makes you wonder what the green+orange issue is! The issue was that people switched incorrectly or already had a cooling problem. Always easier to blame the fluid not the stupid owner who doesn't keep it clean.
Every look inside your recovery bottle(coolant reservoir)? The inside of your radiator and engine coolant passages look the same. If it is dirty, so is everything else. Every bottle that I have seen is coated and has something settling in it which tells a story--telltale signs of lack of maintenance.

And I will repeat myself:
THE NUMBER ONE CAUSE OF WEAR IS LACK OF MAINTENANCE AND ABUSE. So remember to change your fluid yearly or every 15k miles(whichever first). And, stick with ONE. Switching back and forth is worse than switching once.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

deadrx7conv -

i'm not sure if i am being attacked here, (from the smilie face in the middle of your thread, i assumed that i'm not.) however, that's the problem with commuicating through computer, you just never know. so just in case, let me respond. and for the record, this is not meant to offend you or start some sort of argument or anything. with that said, here goes:

well ... i don't get paid by car & driver, so don't expect me to strike up an argument to defend their article

anyway, i guess what i really NEED to do is research the antifreezes and find out exactly what type of metals and welds MAZDA put in the Rx-7's cooling system ... then draw my own conclusion ...

am i going to do that???? hell NO!!!!

what you said has as much merit as what the article said, in my opinion. i guess i did put a lot more stock in it than i should have, but that's simply because i viewed them (C & D) as being an "objective" third-party since they sell magazines and not cars or antifreeze, but you woke me up with your newspaper analogy (BTW, thanks)

i DO maintain my cooling system (and anything else that is a potential instrument of death for my engines, rotary or piston). i'm very attentive to details (that's pronounced ****) when it comes to my cars and their maintenance and safety ...

i know what you meant about the "other" types of owners though, you know ... the ones that believe the commercials that cars can go 100,000+ miles without a tuneup, or oil change or whatnot! their antifreeze takes on this pigeon-**** color and stains the reservoir bottle ... i've seen 'em! hell, i usually end up buying cars from them

i don't know, maybe i came across as trying to be a "teacher" as opposed to a "friend" to christi ... if that's the case, then i apologize. my intentions were simply to respond to her original question by pointing her toward the article, which is the only source of info on the subject that i have/had.

obviously i know that the orange stuff keeps my engine cool, which is the ONLY thing i care about right now. so i'm not losing sleep over having it in my car now. when the time comes for my next coolant change, i'll go back to the green and stay there. and luckily, i'm planning to get another radiator soon, so that will come in handy as well.

we friends????

J~

ps
i have no clue about the Reese's PBC question, i just try to get them down before the chocolate gets on my fingers ...

deadRX7Conv

Diab1,
I was kidding. I also should spend more time proof reading. One misplaced/missing smiley, punctuation, or misspelling, changes the meaning.
Researching antifreeze is a waste of time. I spent some time looking and there are millions of articles.
The problem with the CD article is that it was for the 5/150k tuneup people(and I am getting lazier by the year).

Thanks for the reminder, I forgot about Chisti's questions.

Difference between orange/green: food color used & additive package...They perform the same because they are both ~95 EG/dEG, ~2+% water, and each has a different additive package of ~2+%---orange uses sebacic acid(OAT) and green uses silicates, phosphates, nitra(i)tes, and stuff Rumor was that the additives between orange and green cancelled each other out. This left you with great coolant/antifreeze, but with no corrosion, PH, and crud control.
Some of the red/yellow/blue use a combination of the two(with no issues???). The problem with ANY additive is that it wears out quickly. Thats why obsessive compulsive me recommends yearly changes.

No significance between the two if you follow your owners manual or the back of the bottle and try not to mix the two. It is easier to drain/refill the radiator then to try to flush the engine. Plus, the drain/refill does not screw up the ratio. Flushing adds water to the engine passages that everyone forgets about when adding the 50:50 solution. This causes the water/coolant ratio to thin out to 75+:25-. My experience is that 'steam' doesn't cool all that well. My RX7 owner's manual goes from 55-35 coolant : 45-65 water. Aim for 50:50 and you will be close enough.

There is no proof concerning pros/cons for rotary use.
Most people, when having issues, need something to blame for an engine failure. Remember, it is always easier to blame the oil/coolant/brand.......then blaming the turbo boost, clogged radiator/passages, advanced timing, clogged injectors, clogged cat, lean mixture, slipping belts, owner abuse and lack of care........
And, I never 'point the finger' at myself. I am a perfect human like everybody else

Most people like the orange because it is in a pretty silver bottle and has 5years/150k miles written on it. But, the bottle doesn't offer a pump, radiator, hose, seal, engine warranty. If prestone/zerex/peak were to pay for my engine rebuild, I'd leave it in there forever. But, they haven't offered.

And one last thing, certain metal castings/forgings(aluminum or iron) have porosity. Certain engines suffer from this. New/fresh coolants prevent crud buildup. Crud buildup is what is "sealing" these engines. Seepage(weeping) appears after a fluid change. Since noone wants to change the fluid regularly.........guess which fluid is taking a bad rap???

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

hehehe!

i like that one!