banzaitoyota

Who is running non-aqueous coolant?

RX7BEAR

I want to !!!!! How long have you been running it? And how hard was it to switch over?

banzaitoyota

I've got 4 gallons sitting in the shop right now, waiting on my tranny to get here from Pineapple Racing. I run it in my Kubota G1800 Diesel Garden Tractor and it works great.
My switchover won't be too bad. I have a rodded and boiled out radiator all new houses and a new engine

The best way to change is
a. Drain all old coolant, use block drain and blow air thriough system
b. Flush system thoroughly, again use block drain.
Fill with 100 % Sierra Coolant
Run a couple hours,
c. Drain Sierra and blow out system
Add Evans and convert cap to 0 psig.

There are more explicit instructions on WWW.EVANSCOOLING.COm and there engineers are very helpful

deadRX7Conv

I vaguely remember that Mazda had a TSB/warning concerning the use of PG vs EG. But, that was a couple years ago and technology changes. I am also under the impression that some (german?)automakers are switching to "nonaqueous" coolants. Not sure if it was EG or PG, but I have seen blue and red antifreeze out there. There could be an antifreeze revolution out soon. First it was with synthetics(oil/atf/grease), and now antifreeze. I am wondering if Evans is the new "FIRST" with the coolant technology.

But, EG is cheaper when you figure in normal/accidently maintenance. Yeh, hoses break. Water pumps leak. Radiators break. Thermostats quit. Heater cores leak.......If the cooling system was 100% brand new, I might try the NPG+. Since my cooling system is perfect with green antifreeze/distilled water/water wetter and has 100k miles, I see no need for the upgrade(yet?)!

autocrash

I think that non-aqueous coolant could be a good thing, but I'm not gonna be switching over until I get around to replacing my sad engine...

banzaitoyota

HMMMM...
Lets assume 12k/yr milage, and being a cautious rotary owner you drain/flush/refill system every year.
1 gl EG =5.99
1 gl Distilled Water=1.39
1 water wetter=7.99
total=15.37
+ 1 hr labor to change
+ time to dispose of Hazardous waste (Old Coolant)

15.37 x 5 years = 76.85
Evans (Pure PG)
2 gal @ 25.00 =50.00

Hmmm I saved 26.85, 4 trips to get rid of hazardous waste + 5 hours labor.

In my calculation I save money.

autocrash

yeah, but that is of course assuming that your cooling system doesn't go pop like mine did.....


...thats why I don't think it's worth the effort/$$$ to switch over right now, but when I overhaul the car.... then I'll be considering it more seriously...

deadRX7Conv

Please don't compare formulas to real life. Life isn't that simple.
And, what happened to the cost of the Sierra flush/recycle? the 0 psi radiator cap?
Wait until you:
a. lose a water pump(8000rpm takes it toll)
b. lose a radiator(stock 10+years old)
c. lose one of the many hoses(as above)
d. lose the heater core(again, as above)
e. replace the thermostat(every 3 years)
f. rebuild engine
g. any of the above in the middle of nowhere

Sorry, with 100k(11years) on mostly stock coolant systems, I can see very expensive coolant topoffs in the future. Most rx7's are 12+ years old and are slowly wearing above mentioned parts. What will you do when a hose/core/radiator/pump.....goes south in the middle of nowhere? I am still having problems finding Evans at the local parts stores/marts... Until it is available everywhere and available from the AAA highway help, I will stick with EG. Everyday I see cars boiling over on the highway. I need the ability to "top off and run with it". I even drove 90+miles with a leaky radiator in one of my cars. I just had to pull over and top it off every 10 minutes or so. The cause of the leak was an accident. And, I wanted to get home that day and not deal with tows/ERs....

I have replaced two waterpumps and a 1/2 dozen hoses in the past few weaks for my friends. They are more negligent than I. Most rx7's have unknown history. I haven't seen any(or any other vehicles) with really good maintenance. Sudden breakage will cause the actual cost of Evans to go up, faster than EG.

And, there is no way that I will carry or keep 2-3 gallons in the trunk--just in case 'Vert springs a leak.

AND, IF IT IS SO GREAT, WHY ISN'T EVERY VEHICLE MFG USING IT STOCK, ESPECIALLY WHEN CONSIDERING SOME OF THOSE 7/70 OR 10/100 WARRANTIES. Think of the repair money they would save.

Good question. No answers or replies.
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=70289

7 Dreams

Thats about what went through my head when I considered it lol.

RX7BEAR

Well the way I see it if you are worried about your stuff being old then replace it anyway . It dont cost that much and preventive maintanence is the best thing to waiting for the old stuff to crap out on you. I have replaced every hose and water pump and thermostat just havent done the rad yet. Im moving to Maryland and then to NC were it is very warm compared to Mich. So Im gonna do the switch **** its only 50.00 I can spend that in the bar in less then 2.5 hours LOL and have something to show for it other then a hang over LOL From wha tI have heard every one is very happy with it and are having no probs.

deadRX7Conv

The guy who bought the intake 'tornado' funnel and gasoline magnets said the same thing.
Paypal me $50 and I will send, via mental telepathy(quicker and cheaper than UPS), the 100mpg/1000hp kit for your rotary. You will be able to build it using common kitchen utensils for $.02..................................
Whats great about $50 is that I only need 20000 suckers for a cool mil.
Anyone wanna buy a pet rock for $50?

Its not the money. Its the availabilty! And the annoyance waiting for NPG shipment when something breaks or having to stock up on something I'll never need. Its the last coolant you'll ever need(sarcastically).

Replace stuff that is old and still works...
fan clutch $209- cause of most problems
thermostat $15- 2nd cause
hoses- $100 upper/lower/heater/TB......
waterpump/housing $176
radiator $450 koyo/griffin/fluidyne
heater core-$250
While I am at it:engine rebuild $2000

And to top it off, my(most) cooling systems works perfectly. Fluid change will not fix a failing cooling system. Where is the benefit? I want verifiable proof. Not from evan but someone/source reliable.

rxspeed87

from reading up on the evans site and from other ppl from what I understand the evans is also less prone to have detonation problems, less hot spots inside the rotor housing. less wear on your water seals due to less pressure in the cooling system. less wear and tear on the rest of your cooling system due to less pressure as I am sure there are other reasons to do the switch

though then again it could just be snake oil.. but I am doubting it

and pinnaple racing is saying the stuff is good and I am sure they know a little about whats good and bad

CNYRX7tech

I say nay to Evan. What I do say is call and ask your engine builders what they are using. My builder will not use Evans in any of his engines. (base on a aircraft engine failure) I am willing to spend more T (time) and M (money) (T&M) on my car cause extra maintance is not a bad thing.

banzaitoyota

I left out the cost of the flush:
1. New Engine
2. New Radiator
3. New Hoses
4. New Waterpump

My engine builder did recommend it, I already keep it on hand for the tractors.

amemiya

WTF is snake oil?? I have been running evans for 6 months and have got 5 friends using it and we have nothing but good things to say about it. think about the liquid to surfice contact on the combustian surfice, does ragular coolant do this no it boils and you have air to cobustain surfice contact = detonation

banzaitoyota

Lets keep this thread to facts:

Question:
" My builder will not use Evans in any of his engines. (base on a aircraft engine failure) "
What was the cause of the failure? What did Evans say when contacted? Was it NPG or NPG+ (2 different animals)?
End of Question.

Remember, when your EG has localized boiling the approximate heat transfer of VAPOR is ~0.00.

Another note, I spoke with AL (Diesel Engineer @ EVANS) about temp gauge readings. Evans will read ~ 5-7% higher with Evans due to the low conductivity of the coolant. When using electric gauges.

banzaitoyota

amemiya: are you running stock rad ? and are you running a zero psi system or 3-4 psi system?

deadRX7Conv

Snake oil was the old "cure it all for all problems". I believe that we use it when something untested comes out making claims.

Sorry, dude. My car doesn't burn antifreeze. It burns gasoline. I do not have coolant on my combustion surfaces. I also do not have detonation or cooling issues. Anyone with detonation and cooling problems should solve the problem first. And, then do whatever they want for coolant.

BanzaiT has a new engine and extras. He will not have seal/pump/hose/cooling problems like most people already have. With those new components, he shouldn't have any problems with any coolant. He already tested Evans on his lawnmower and is happy with it and will use it in his car. Why is he stocking it for the tractor? Is it leaking/burning/loosing coolant?

Another thing to consider is boiling point vs. evaporation point vs flash point vs temp conductivity..... Water will evaporate without boiling, so will antifreeze. There is some technical false claims on the Evans sight. I am not a fluid engineer(do your own reading and searching) and do not run my coolant at 370+ degrees, with a hotter thermostat, and with a faster waterpump for all those claimed benefits. Love to see what happens with engine seals and oil temperature if the coolant gets that hot.
Also, water is the best coolant. That is why we use it as the base for all coolant comparisons. But, it freezes, evaporates, wears metal(grand canyon effect) and doesn't lubricate the pump all that well. Thats why we add antifreeze/coolant.

Even cheapo sierra has a boiling point of 371 degrees. Why not just run pure sierra??? Compare this with your Evans.
http://www.peakantifreeze.com/msds/sierra_msds.html

Too bad that sierra doesn't give these specs at 100%(no water) sierra. But, notice the change in freeze/boil over with the increase in Sierra.
http://www.sierraantifreeze.com/tech.html
Or just use pure Amsoil:
http://www.amsoil.com/products/anf.html
http://www.pecuniary.com/synthetics/antifreeze.html
Or Neo:
http://www.neosyntheticoil.com/coolant.htm
Several pages of good reading:
http://www.peakantifreeze.com/tech/tech_a.html
http://www.peakantifreeze.com/finalchargeext.htm

I would love to see one of you EVANS supporters out there switch to 100% Sierra/NEO/Amsoil/FinalCharge and prove that there is no benefit to it compared to other PGs. Or are they afraid too?

I wonder why Evans doesn't compare itself to sierra/amsoil/neo.
They quickly compare themselves to pure water and water/EG mix.
http://www.evanscooling.com/main11.htm (click tech info)

And, if you are not running coolant filtration, there is no way that Evans will last 500,000 miles on a normal driven vehicle with normal wear/breakage. What, coolant filtration??? Noone ever mentions this. I have seen it on big rigs. One reason why they have extended maintenance for fluids is that everything is filtered.

Concerning localized boiling, what causes it? Isn't coolant always moving. Is it that the engine has too much timing or is running too much boost or mixture is too lean. Is it caused by coolant restriction. Was it cause by the underdriven pulley or slipping belts? Clogged radiator?
PLEASE DO NOT SOLVE PROBLEMS(overheating/hotspots/boilovers......) THAT SHOULD NOT EXIST! AND IF THERE IS A PROBLEM, FIX IT. DON'T LOOK FOR A BANDAID FIX.

I also don't care for what enginebuilders/racers/speedshops/tuners recommend because of the magic $$sponsorship$$. I prefer unbiased comparison or 'side by side' review on a working vehicle--not one with problems.
Toss me a paycheck, some free parts, some free bandwidth, some free supplies, and I will recommend whatever you sell.

When the environmentalists/ecoweenies get there grips on EG, we all will be using PG one day. And, the cars will come engineered from the factory to use it; just like to r12 to 134a switchover. It required changes. I am not willing to guinea pig my car with hotter thermostats, low pressure caps, higher flow pumps, filtration, and different fluid reactions on my 11+ year old engineered seals/coolant system.

amemiya

well that is your opinion, when I said coolant on the combustion surface I was refering to the other side of the metal " you know the side the coolants one" "smarty pants" and I am not band aiding anything just trying to provent detonation, just like switching to a colder plug. Another good thing about evans is it doesn't coroad things. If you want to see a good example of what water does take off your water pump and look at the water pump housing you will see a machined circle and must of them are sevirly curoded and that is not good for coolant flow.


just my .02 cents

deadRX7Conv

Smarty pants? Well "double smarty pants" to you
I am glad people still have a sense of humor and if I offended anyone, I apologize.
Yep water corrodes things. I call this the "grand canyon effect". Thats why I flush yearly and run 50:50. I think that most corrosion is caused by poor maintenance or bad luck. I don't want to take my water pump off because I have enough things to replace already.

Problem prevention is equal to good preventive maintenance(pm), and I lost that part of the debate since I am pro PM, and therefore, we would deduce that I am pro problem prevention. I am still a fact/proof hunter so......
And I just converted a car to 100% PG. I am using a friends car whose hose burst yesterday. I picked up 2 gallons of PG(1 prestone lowtox and 1 sierra). If there are an issues with the PG mix, I will blame it on the thermostat. He was too cheap to pick up a new 'stat. And, of course, I didn't tell him that I didn't add water IMO, he needs a new car anyway and I wanted to see how long it would run. So far, especially with the heat wave/weather, everything seems perfect. I will know the next time I see this car for maintenance.

banzaitoyota

Problem is, Please correct me if I am wrong, The over the counter PG coolants(prestone and Sierra) are not 100% pure PG and still cause electrolyic corrosion.

Remember with the NEW NPG+ it is a "drop-in" no high flow pump or big core radiator required.

amemiya

I would not use the sierra or low tox stuff PG that is water saluble is bad for the o rings from what I know. I lost a engine to the stuff. o ring cracked

deadRX7Conv

First thing is that the only issue with the O-rings is either lack of maintenance, loose engine, or overheating. Blaming a fluid is a cop out. Ever wonder why people change their coolant/antifreeze to begin with?? Its because they are having problems. I am also under the impression that some failures are caused by the engine tension bolts loosening up over time. 7000 rpm does that. Whoever torques their engine's bolts during a clutch job?? Noone, we just wait for the rebuild. I didn't know this. I just found out from an old friend/mechanic. He says loose tension bolts were common after 50k miles.

Water can be used/unused with any antifreeze. Problem is that some coolants need water as an activator for certain additives. Prestonelowtox and sierra have about 4% water in them already. I am making a risky assumption that they did that because somewhere, someone, will run 100% for top offs or while doing a coolant change.

I noticed the NPG+ vs. NPG. I emailed Evans concerning an MSDS for both. Since its a long weekend, hopefully I'll see what the difference between the two and other PGs next week. And, the only corrosion problem is when someone forgets to change their antifreeze/coolant regularly. My owners manual says to inspect every 30k. I think Mazda goofed with that one. Inspect=yep, its there, must be good enough. The electrolytic corrosion is caused by old fluid. Hell, there was a thread that someone had brown coolant in their recently purchased car. Tell you what, he WILL have problems in the future. How long does it take for green antifreeze to turn to brown, assuming it wasn't oil? Seals, radiator, pump..... aren't gonna last long in brown antifreeze. I can only imagine the slop/crud that is insulating his engine and how long before the famous overheating issue occurs. Can we say atherosclerosis???

banzaitoyota

I went to SIERRA's web site and asked:
"Below is the result of your feedback form.
Submitted by John Glave(zach12@aikenelectric.net) on Wed Jul 3 19:28:45
2002
-----------------------------------------------------------------

comments: What are the consequences of running 100% sirrea. ie as a non
aqueous coolant?"

And the answer from Siera TECH was:
John,

Thanks for your e-mail. To achieve maximum protection a 50/50 mix should
be utilized. Using 100% Sierra will not give you protection that you
require.

Sincerely,

Sierra Tech Dept.

banzaitoyota

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...730#post921730