SuperchargedRex

Its been a long time since I've been called "childish". And if you think I'm talking "****" then you obviously don't know me nor understand me.

And if you understood anything about Rodders, (essentially people that like cars from the '50s and earlier) you'd know that while they love the style of their cars, they also enjoy customizing them to make them unique. The '23T kit I displayed is from a company that specializes in these types of cars; their standard configuration for that specific model is for a small block Chevy V8 onto that Ford chassis!

When my RX-7 was rearended, and I thought possibly totalled, I approached Total Performance with the idea of placing my supercharged rotary engine in one of their vehicles. While surprized, they were extremely supportive. I wish that all of the members on this board were so open minded.

peejay

Sounds like every modded FC out there. So what, exactly, is your point?

BTW - there have been MANY smog-legal conversions. As long as the engine is from a newer car, and all of the emissions equipment from that car is used, it will be legal. Easiest thing would be to grab everything from a 89-93 Mustang because those are the lightest common V8s, can make stupid amounts of power, and are swap-friendly (they have separate engine harnesses).

Don't forget that SBCs don't require 50lb mufflers or super-thick exhaust systems... or that they don't have those insanely heavy exhaust manifolds, or insanely heavy converters. Much of the weight associaed with a rotary is with the "incidentals".

I don't believe that 50/50 is perfect. It all depends on the situation - for AWD I'd prefer a front bias. For RWD, I'd prefer a rear bias, something like 45/55 or even 40/60. It will be very hard to get any RX-7 there without having to add weight to the rear, so in a nutshell it will always be imperfect. Period.

By the way, I'm going to be getting a lot of free goodies takeoffs, and I've been thinking, I could make an AA/FA clone, running on a monster ported N/A engine. Wouldn't be as quick as a real AA/FA but it'd be cool as hell. (What else can you do with a beam axle from a '57 Chevy pickup?)

rx7_ragtop

I remember seeing one either on here or on the TeamFC3S list.

Brad

rx7_ragtop

My point is that you are comparing the weight of a car without all those items to the weight of a car with- not exactly apples-to-apples. Compare the weight of the V8 car WITH those items to a rotary car WITH those items, or a V8 car without to a rotary without- there's a big difference, which the V8 "enthusiasts" always try to deny. I don't mind disagreement, but I HATE misinformation.
Actually, it is technically NOT smog legal if it was not tested by the EPA IN THAT CHASSIS. Period. That's not a state law, that is federal. You might "get away with it," but it ISN'T legal. (neither is a 20B swap...)
Actually, they don't "REQUIRE" those either. I have a MUCH lighter exhaust on mine... and headers will lighten it further, just as headers will lighten a SBC/SBF installation. Those cast iron Chevy/Ford manifolds are heavy too... compare a SBC to a rotary, and allow the SBC to have headers but the rotary has to have the cast-iron manifold? Another "trick" used by the V8 enthusiasts (Like Granny's) to make the numbers look more even when they are NOT.

Actually removing those accessories will start to get you there with a rotary... and the convertible already has a slight rearward bias IIRC. Moving the battery to the trunk/hatch is a big difference, something that can be done on V8 conversions as well as rotary powered cars.

I have to admit, I don't like the thought of a V8 in an RX-anything, but I'm not against V8s in general. Additionally, I'm more against the misinformation that people put out, trying to say a V8 is as light as a rotary, that the balance won't change, that it will be emissions legal, etc. NONE of those are true, although the balance issue can be addressed if approached carefully. Also saying a V8 swap is cheaper- it isn't, unless you work for free and develop all your own parts out of free materials. Unfortunately, I cannot do either of those things...

Quote:

By the way, I'm going to be getting a lot of free goodies takeoffs, and I've been thinking, I could make an AA/FA clone, running on a monster ported N/A engine. Wouldn't be as quick as a real AA/FA but it'd be cool as hell. (What else can you do with a beam axle from a '57 Chevy pickup?)

That sounds interesting... Oh... and as for the last question... ummmm... make a trailer?

Brad

Mykl

You're right, I don't know you or understand you. I only know you as you present yourself on this forum, and that's what I go off of. How you are off the internet is of no concern to me, because chances are I'll never meet you or have to deal with you.

Now, I wasn't attacking you, or calling you childish. I was merely saying that people saying "why don't we toss a rotary in a '65 'Vette", or whatever, out of spite is pretty childish. It seems to me like it's said just to **** people off.

I think it'd be pretty cool to see a rotary powered anything that didn't have a rotary in it before. I don't care what it is. At the same time I don't think it's cool to bash people just because they want to dump a V-8 in their RX-7. So you don't like it, big deal. If you can't express your opinion in a reasonable, thought out manner then don't express it.

Supercharged, non of this is really directed at you so don't take it that way. I've read your posts and you don't fall in the category I described that you thought you did. Non of your posts contain "that's a retarded idea" or "pistons suck ***".

Also, don't preach to me about the hot-rod spirit, I know enough about it. I'm also as open minded as they come, how could somebody take the stance I have and not be open minded? That said, I too wish all of the members of this board were more open minded, if they were then we wouldn't be talking about this.

Although I haven't seen it out of you, I just hope you don't go off preaching about what a bad idea it is to put anything other than a rotary in an RX-7, since you're the one who brought up the whole hot rod spirit thing.

RX7nCRX

Ok, so now its....

You would like to see a rotary in all other cars also. NOT TRUE.

It would be stupid to put a rotary in a 5.0 mustang. Because thats what makes the car, is that 5.0 motor.

SAME THING with the rx-7.

Its pretty shallow to not care whats under the hood of your car, and seems to show you aren't much of a car enthusiast.

Also, wizzbangca, so what if you have a 300,000 mile car. If I actually wanted to drive the same exact car 300,000 miles, I'm sure I could do it. But by reading your post about your rotary, you DID prove that you CANNOT maintain a car properly. PERIOD.

I saw a 1st gen. the other day with 245,000 miles on it just going in for its FIRST rebuild.

My theory, or fact on maintenance on rx-7s:

---- consumers purchased rx-7's in the 80's, didn't actually realize that 1 qt. of oil needed to be added every 1,500 miles, and weren't aware of proper maintenance procedures. 10+ years later, after 1/2 of the cars life running on 1 qt. of oil low, the engine starts to have problems. So now, rx-7's get this huge "rotary's aren't reliable" stereotype, when in fact, rotaries outlast piston engines by FAR in race situations. On the road however, they just aren't rebuilt properly, and they aren't maintained properly and we all know what happens.

This may be true or not, I don't know.... but I think it makes sense.

Felix Wankel

That's me. I happen to like the rotary engine. But does that mean I'm going to **** on gnx7's car? No. I happen to like his car. I like GN's, and I think its kinda cool to see a GN drivetrain in an RX7. Plus, its in an FC, which isn't exactly a rare car. You all act like he swapped into a '90 GTUs or something.

People are gonna do what they want regardless of what anyone else says. So STFU if you can't compliment someone else's ****. <------That is the main reason I won't register at clubsi. I hate most of their cars, but I won't bother to tell them that.

Mykl

Actually, I think it'd be pretty cool to see a rotary in an old MG, or perhaps a 240Z or something.

It isn't shallow for me to not care if somebody wants to drop a V-8 in their RX-7, it means that I know how to mind my own business.

I am a car enthusiast first.
RX-7 enthusiast second.

I just happen to prefer the RX-7, but not because it has a rotary in it, mostly because I like the rest of the car a lot.

Agent_D

iTrader: (2)

wow thats all i can say, ****** seems to be one of the more childish ones, there was a thread about a ****************** in the kills section where he was telling everyone **** too, nothing against you but you seem to put out a bad impression. mykl, i got the wrong impression of you first off also, your funny just thought it was kinda silly to say you would put a v8 in to **** people off, that is childish but it was a joke i dont really like the idea of switching the engines but hey, its what you want, and as a car enthusiast thats what you do, things that make you even more unique, i mean rotary is unique, putting a GN turbo is unique also. i agree that perfect weight is about 45/55, when you remove the cats and put aftermarket exhaust you take a lot of weight off that **** is heavy lol me personally i think that if you do your own thing with "your" car that makes you an enthusiast, because maybe you dont like the way the GN looks, you love the 7, or whatever car it may be, so why not get the best of both worlds?? thats my view point.

* edited to remove user specific reference. NO FLAMES.

HWO

AMEN, Couldn't have phrased it better myself

lesd

I had a Apexi single turbo with PFC, big IC, etc.
It pissed me off when it blew, so I cut my losses and decided to go to the dark side.
-Les

SuperchargedRex

Hey Mykl, not a problem. Seems we're in violent agreement. In reality, I'm basically in awe of all things mechanical; I think engine swaps either way are cool, and respect people for attempting something different, I wouldn't preach against it.

Peace

Mykl

haha, I feel the same way as you. Even though most people on this board have few good things to say about the piston engine I'm still amazed by how it works. That said, the rotary engine totally blows my mind when it comes to the mechanics of it.

Sorry again if I seemed a little hostile towards anybody. I guess I've just had more V-8/RX-7 conversations than I care to and I get irritated quickly in them. I guess I'll just watch myself in the future because I know I've made a few childish remarks in this thread.

Thaniel

You guys are funny. =)

Same arguments can be made for modifiying a car from factory condition at all. Go to any car show with old factory originals and see what they think of modding a car. Even just a little. They won't even change the sterio.

Everybody sees things differently. Not much we can do about it but get our blood pressure up.

HN

You guys are funny. =)

Same arguments can be made for modifiying a car from factory condition at all. Go to any car show with old factory originals and see what they think of modding a car. Even just a little. They won't even change the sterio.

Everybody sees things differently. Not much we can do about it but get our blood pressure up.


So true. i just had an old mazda FANATIC yell at me because i put a bridge motor in my 76 rx4. he loved the entire car with factory am radio, everything is mint. then i started it up and the guy got one of those i ripped his heart out looks. he said why did i have to mess it up.

SureShot

A local guy put a Camero FI V8 in a series 2. Those who drove it said is was scary fast. They also said "If you like the handling of a 1950 pickup, you'd love the V8 7" It is all about preference, and if anyone wants to try something different, and can make it run, thats cool.

Felix Wankel

Holy ****, people are starting to agree with each other. That's never happened before

gnx7

iTrader: (10)

I'll reiterate what Felix Wankel said in the above post....


Scary fast sounds good to me though..... :p

Damnfuct

Funniest thing i've ever seen?
A picture of a rotary engine in some sort of datsun i think. The firewall had to be cut back and the rotary engine + accessories came out about a good foot from the firewall. The whole engine bay was EMPTY. it was shocking! You could fit like 2-3 people laying down in the bay and close the hood!
I would never swap a rotary into a mustang/etc, why? because it's not what that car needs. What the car needs is to lose some weight. Ford must say things like "damn, we got this powerful engine with tons of torque, people might be too thrilled driving this thing, we need to add weight to it.. lets see..."
People who quote the weight of a v8 to the weight of a rotary obviously have never seen a rotary in their life. The first time i saw one i knew it was going to be small, but i didn't know i was going to be in for the shock of my life. The block itself with no manifolds and accessories is about the size of a 12 pack of beer. Shocking! Having a small engine not only makes the car lighter because of the engine itself, but because of the frame and body around it. If it fits into 1/2 the size, then you can have a shorter frame upfront > doesn't have to be as heavy to be as rigid, shorter body panels > less weight, etc.
The beauty of a rotary engine is that there isn't a spot in the cycle where the moving mass has 0 velocity. This means that in a piston engine there are tensile and compressive loads that if you knew about them you'd probably want to die! Those little rods at 6000 rpm are holding back hell, and when they go all hell breaks loose and you need a new engine! (kinda like apex seals but stronger). What i also enjoy about the rotary is that the stock engine, when tuned properly, can make DOUBLE OR TRIPLE the stock hp! sure, this might reduce reliability, but when that engine is the size of a 12 pack of beer, you are smiling.
In a big car, i'd never swap in a rotary, i think you can throw in v8's. In a little car, a rotary swap would be perfect (cars like the rx-3's and 4's).
It's not that i dont' like v8's or any large displacement engine, it's just that i don't like inefficiency. valve timing, rod length, volumetric efficiency, stroke, intake runner length all contribute to torque peak, and when your torque peak comes on at 2000-3000 rpm, what good is that? shfit into 2nd at 4000? **** on that! When your torque is higher than your horsepower, move the peak up in the rpm ranges and you make more hp with the same torque, not to mention you don't light it up like a skid when you try to launch (try to). I heard that when you stroke an engine, your rod length has to be reduced. That, in turn, lowers the rpm peak of the torque peak (probably by not much anyawys) but still, lower rpm torque peak + more torque = i don't want to increase my 1/4 mile time..

peejay

I figure, if CARB referee stations say it's OK, then how much more legal do you need to be? (And I don't LIVE in CA, I just pity the schmucks who have to deal with their fascist emissions laws) It does seem pretty stupid about the chassis, I remember in the late 80s when the 350 was first offered in the 3rd-gen F-body, it was only offered in the convertible. Why? The engine was certified for the Corvette's weight category, and the Camaro convertible was the only Camaro that was in that category - putting it in the lighter coupe would have required additional certificiation!

I disagree. I have lightweight headers on my 12A, put them on in late March. 12kmi and 5 months later, they are cracking, and my whole exhaust system all the way to the first half of my center pipe is hardened and blue from extreme heat. Rotary's "dragon breath" needs heavy duty exhaust if longevity is required, unless the car's just used to putt around. Next time around I'll give in and get the RB parts, which cost a little more but are made from 1/8" thick (that's .125") tube (pipe?) and has a reputation for actually lasting. Downside is that it weighs a LOT.

Thanks for the ideas on the solid axle... I'm actually partial to my AA/FA idea over anything else. Or maybe make an F/Xer clone, talk about your weight distribution! They had way-tall front ends and solid axles mounted as far forward as possible - the idea was to get 100% weight transfer to the rear wheels for traction! Then they discovered aerodynamics (well, they were forced to discover it...) and they evolved into the modern Funny Cars.

fc3s.org

That was Marcus Fitzhugh. His motor went 367700+ miles before it low a water seal. He currently has put in a new motor, and is well on his way to another record breaker =)

I'm not going to even get involved in the whole V-8 in a rotary vehicle debate. I would just make people hate me


"If you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all"

lesd

Smog? On an engine swap, the engine has to be the same year or newer than the car it's going into. For example, I'm installing a '99 Z28 motor in my '93 FD. To smog it, it gets inspected to make sure all the smog stuff from the donor car is there and working, and it gets a dyno test. If all is OK, you get a sticker in the door jamb, with a barcode. From then on, it gets smoged like any other car, the local smog place just gets the barcode number, and tests it. This is in California. I plan to smog my car.

That's how the law works for engine swaps.
-Les

Mykl

I prefer stupid fast.

SuperchargedRex

My fiance says I'm just stupid.