elfking

Is this normal? I can't get the timing light to work on Trailing 1 and 2 as if they are not functioning at all.. ive read the haynes manual on it and well its not very helpful... Ive got idle problems.... but only after its warmed up... so I figured id start with the basics...

Maybe its a rotary thing is what im thinking? but something just doesnt seem right...

Thanks!

loofeeTurboII

u should be able to read T1 atleast, on T2 it fire @ 180 degree from T1 so u should not be able t read it.
try unplug the plug cable from coil and crank to see if its firing. what kindda idle problem do u have?? does ur car run rich?? idle for a few second stall and die.
and u say it goes away when it's on operating temp???

elfking

When the car is cold it idles just fine, but when its up at operating temperature if I let it idle long enough it will die. Or the idle dips so low it feels like its going to die, ive had it stall on me.. I don't have an A/F gauge hooked up, or EGT unfortunately so I don't entirely know if im running rich... it smells a bit sweet out the exaust.. Its a bit strange...

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

YOu should be getting a firing pulse from T1 and T2. Have you tried swapping coil yet?

elfking

I don't have any spares to be swapping in yet, or are you saying to swap trailing for leading?

Can the car run on just the Leading plugs?!?!?!? It doesn't hesitate or anything on me when I was boosting around, I would think that if the Trailing coil was bad I would be hurting or it wouldn't even be starting....

Is there any way to check the coil without swapping it with another one?

Edit: Yikes, so much to learn about the rotary, so little time.....

I talk to my friend who's got an 87 S4 NA..... He said that the car can run off of the leading only, which I gathered from the replies ive recieved so far... It makes sense thinking round and round, not up and down.

However what im trying to figure out now is would it be the igniter that went bad or the coil? Can I test this with the Trailing coil/igniter form my friends 87 NA? Or is that different than the 88 Turbo II coils?

If they can't be used are there any other years which coudl be used? I will be heading to pick and pull this weekend to hopefully find a functioning coil/igniter so I can figure out whats going on...

I guess this could explain a strange smell out the back too.....and why it wont pass emissions in the good ol CA...

Thanks for the help...

HAILERS

Put your friends coil assy in. It's the same thing. Takes about fifteen minutes to prove/disprove. Only three nuts and two connectors. The coil assy must be bolted to the chassis for it to work. Do not just lay it on the fender. At least on bolt to ground it to the chassis.
http://www.teamfc3s.org/info/articles/demystifying.html

elfking

Ahh great, thank you for the info Hailers. I will give it a try tomorrow.

This would be a reason why I would have a crappy idle right? (I would think this is the equivilant to running on 3 cylinders instead of 4 on a poor little piston engine...)

elfking

From peoples experiences with no spark coming form any of the Trialing plugs, would it be the coil or the igniter?

Im going to just swap the coil tonight, if that doesnt work I was going to try swapping my friends igniter in..

I take it since the coil will work from my friends 87 NA that the igniter would work as well?

I hope its not the igniter, considering the price at mazdatrix. Or its time to take a search in the pick n pulls....

What years work for an 88 to be swapping coils in? All S4's compatable?

HAILERS

All series four and five also.

elfking

So I switched the coil and the igniter from my friends 87 NA and this is what happens, I found out it does it with BOTH coils

From what we saw, checked the timing with it dead cold... has spark on ALL 4 plugs... As soon as the car comes to operating temperature the Trailing 1 had NO spark. Trailing 2 HAD spark. Leading 1 and Leading 2 also had spark, but the timing is way far off..

Is it possible the timing is so far off the crank angle sensor issnt letting Trialing 1 fire at all? I doubt this but I figured id ask. I will set the timing in the morning considering its almost midnight and well angry neighbors are no good.

What I don't understand is why it would have spark when cold, but not when at operating temperature? and it does it with both coils... so that must mean a problem with the plug wire, or the wires from ECU to the coil.. Well im a bit stumped.. I found another good thread started and filled me in with some info Hailers so kindly posted...

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ling+one+spark

But my problem is a bit different...
Thanks for the help.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Dude, get your timing set first. How are you checking for spark? Inductive timing light?

elfking

Well, I know the timing is off... but I would think that it would still fire on all 4. Thats why I was asking... was to see if it would be the case of having the Trailing 1 not fire becuase the timing was off?

As I said in the post above, id be setting my timing in the morning. Just have some OLD angry people in the neighborhood that dont like me working on my car at night.

I was checking for spark by just hooking it up to each plug one by one, as if I was to check timing... and I was looking at it when it was hooked up, but I couldn't get spark on T1, so I wanted to ask/read about it and see if T1 wouldn't fire if my timing was far off.

As for setting the timing, it should be lined up with the mark above the pully right? using the yellow mark on the right? I beleive thats what ive read, and what the haynes manual said...

One day it will hopefully click for the rotary ways...

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

I can understand that.. Especially in the city.. And they should still fire, no matter how off the timing is. Assuming a good CAS

elfking

Hmm, I guess I need to look into figureing out how to test the CAS.

What doesnt make sense is that T1 fires when the car is cold, but not at Operating temperature?

Can I use the CAS from my friends 87 NA with no troubles? Or maybe I shouldn't mess with his and find one at the local junk yard.

Well Ill try playing with the timing in the morning and see if the T1 will come back from the dead... Maybe I screwed something up when I pulled the Upper Intake Manafold off for the PD/every vac hose I could see replacement...

Thanks again for helping me out here. I appricate it.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

that makes no sense... Coils dont just die, and come back due to temperature. I think your idle problem is elsewhere, but there are a million things you have to check. You should still idle minus the trailing coils... Reason I asked earlier if your using an inductive timing light to check spark is, I have been led astray MANY times by that check. The BEST way to check spark is to use a spark checker. Sometimes (and I dont know why) the FCs dont like to show a spark on the timing light.

elfking

Haha Yeah I know it doesn't make sense at all, my friend and I were sitting there scrating our heads about to hit the coil with the wratchet. When I started the car cold, even with his coil in it, ALL 4 were fireing... then it somewhat warmed up while we replaced the headlights, we took it out, ran it around and came back.. Checked for spark, and T1 was out and gone and the car couldn't hold its idle any more. it kept wanting to die had to flutter the gas to keep it running....

But first things first ill take a look at the timing... I think I bought myself into a project car.

Edit: Errm wait, I don't really understand the inductive timing light... My timing light is one like this:
Hook hot lead to battery, ground to battery then the clip over the plug wires... Its a cheapie from kraigen auto parts...
It has an on off button

I have noticed it to be a bit touchy sometimes when sparking... Maybe I do have the T1 still working and its my crappy timing light...and the timing is off... Im open to new ideas...

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Thats an inductive timing light

elfking

Well I will try and find a spark checker... The weird thing then would be..

If I can't get a reading form my T1... Why would I be able to get a reading off T1 in my friends 87 NA... Maybe the plug wire is giving me crap. The previous owner had just replaced them, but maybe its defective... Might explan the cold/warm thing a little more too...

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

man, i havent a clue on that one, its very odd... Maybe someone else has a suggestion... I am out of ideas

HAILERS

Did you actually put your friends trail coil in your car? What happened?

Your problem is odd is serveral ways. One thing that caught my eye was where you said the trail coil went dead and the car would hardly hold a idle. That's not even close to normal. I can take my trail coil out of the car and bury it in the back yard and the idle won't change a bit. Something is wrong. Gotta go now, I have to dig up the coil in the back yard and reinstall it now.

elfking

Well ok, I went to my uncles shop this morning and messed around with the car..

It seems my cheap timing light just can't pick up the signal. He's got some snap on stuff so I used the timing light and it picked up all 4 while it was warm, no problem.

So I go and check timing and its bouncing around all over the place. I tried messing with it, but no matter where I turn the CAS it won't get near the proper marks..

The L1 is about 1 cm off from the yellow mark. (But it bounces around like crazy, not staying still like my friends NA) and the T1 is about 3 mm off the yellow mark (I KNOW it needs to be at the red mark, but it wont go any closer.)

My uncle seems to think I either hooked a vac line up in the wrong spot or its leaking vacuum from somewhere... Which could make sense after pulling off all those lines for the Upper Intake Manafold to come off..

I guess its just another fun filled weekend.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Just an FYI-The Snap On lite will light even if the plugs aren't firing. They are that sensitive. To see if the trailing plugs are actually firing, when at idle, just disconnect the leading igniter. The idle rpm will drop, put it will still run. If it shuts off, the plugs aren't firing.

elfking

Yes, I put my friends coil/igniter in and it didn't change the situation one bit. I do beleive there is some weird vacuum leak happening... Though i couldn't hear one and sprayed every vac line I could see with some carb cleaner the other night...

elfking

I did notice that, I put the sensor that hooks to the plug wire down near the trailing lead and it started blinking when it wasn't connected to the wire...

I will give that a try and make sure, but as Hailers said I guess it should idle no problem without trailing... so I think I have some other Vac problem going on...

elfking

Another thing I noticed when I went to lunch today... This morning when it was turning over it would take id say 4 or 5 turns to get it running. My uncle adjusted the Air Flow screw trying to see if we could get it to pass emissions... (which we gave up on for now heh.) and now at lunch time the car started up with 1 or 2 turns.... Which I think is better (from what ive been reading for a rotary..)

But thats different then whatevers going on with my vacuum line setups... Time to start printing out every vac line picture I can find.

Ill post the solution once I find it.. Unless anyone has any other ides to check out.