idsigloo

So anyway I've been looking into Cermet B and getting my internals coated with it. Does anyone have there engine Cermet B'd and how do you feel about it? Positive reaction? Also, how does this effect the longevity of the engine.

FirstRotaryExp

iTrader: (3)

I think Kevin has been offering Cermet housing now for a premium price....so for an answer id check with him unless we have another builder whos done it.

Boostmaniac

I was curious mostly about coating the housings AND the rotors. Anything that reflects heat, offers better compression, and lasts longer on a rotary shouldn't be an option to buy. It should come standard on all rebuilds. If this stuff is as good as it sounds on paper, I'd probably even do a Cermet coating of paint on my car.

FirstRotaryExp

iTrader: (3)

I believe the reason its not standard is its high cost....its a $1200 option from kevin with usable cores...but I also remember seeing a thread sometime last year about a shop that did a full motor in it, was a thing of beauty, cant remember it so you can disregard this as heresay.

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

I researched this about 6 months ago, and there didnt seem to be anyone with an engine with any large number of miles on a cermet rebuild. That could have changed since. The company that does it is JHBperformance, if I remember correctly. They told me to use Mazda OEM seals on a street car. They offer their own seals, but I believe they are ceramic and not really suited for street use. There is one person that had a bad experience with a housing they coated. Basically, there was a flaw and he didn't want to send it back and it ended up flaking off. I'm sure you can find it if you search.
Theres some more, but I'm kinda busy at the moment. Ill try to post it later tonight.

Boostmaniac

Thanks, I searched Cermet B and found some info, but not much on how the motors actually ran with it. Thanks for any input you have.

iceblue

I cryo treat all my blocks and parts now and ceramic coat my Irons and rotors. We will know how they last soon under a high boost motor. I do not know of anyone else running this combination but only individually. The results from other builders that I talk with have shown very good results and some mixed. It really depends on who does the coating for you.

doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

the fact that this company upped pricing, from an already premium price and refused to provide even the simplest of data regarding housing and seal wear, the fact they blatantly lie on thier site about the product ( saying it's the product that one lemans.. when, they admitted it's a propritary product..) .. speaks volumes of the people running the operation and thier obvious distain to be up front with ANYONE.

it's now cheaper to get a new housing.

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

Where did they say that it is a proprietary product? I also don't recall the price going up recently.
I was exploring cermet as a cheaper alternative to a new housing, but it turns out mine were still in great shape, so I havent looked into it recently.
The other stuff I was talking about was some PMs with a fellow forum member. He actually met Rick Engman, one of mazda's rotary gurus. The member said Engman told him "that while the coating itself is the same coating that Mazda used in the 787B engine, it is not so much the material but how the housing is ground and prepped for it that makes it really good. Rick said preparation is everything and an improper grind can really hurt the ability of the material to stay attached to the housing." He hadn't tested them at the time, but warned to "be wary" of them until proven. I will leave the member anonymous unless he wants to join in out of courtesy to him.
That said, I would just wait a bit and see how Iceblue's stuff turns out.

doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

in the Canadian section JHB came online and claimed that it WAS propritary.

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

Ah, ok. That definately puts a spin on things. Still, I'm curious about how iceblues stuff turns out. Also, engman mentioned something about how you could actually send the housings to mazda for cermet coatings (possibly on end housings only) but for something like 1k per face. No details at all, just something I thought I'd mention.

Node

iTrader: (1)

it makes me feel all warm and gooey on the inside!

iceblue

Total cost for everything is 900$ allot cheaper then "Kermit" I call it.

If you are looking for coatings go this route. Some people have coated the rotor housings with ceramic but I know of brand new housings coming out warped from the baker getting to hot. So I only Cryo the rotor housings.

EJayCe996

If you're talking about the incident I'm thinking of, the coating on the guy's housing was too thick by a few mm or something and JHB said they'd take it and redo it with OEM tolerances but the guy had refused since they had taken a while to get his housings back to him in the first place and took it to some local machine shop to have it ground to tolerances and the surfaces smoothed because they didn't "look" smooth. I'd say that particular incident really has no bearing on JHB coatings holding up since the guy decided to take it somewhere else and probably did more harm to the coatings himself than anything. I just can't see someone complaining of faulty coating issues when they modified the coating. That's like throwing a GT45 turbo on a naturally aspirated car fresh off the showroom floor then getting all upset when the motor blows 2 days later and taking it back to the dealership. What will they tell you? They will tell you that you voided the warranty by doing what you did. Once he took it elsewhere it was out of JHB's hands. Believe me, I'm not standing up for JHB but you also have to take into consideration what the end-user did as well.

Carzy Driver

www.turblown.net does similar coatings and I recently got a quote for (2) housings at $300 plus the cost of shipping.

idsigloo

I'm getting my engine built my pineapple racing. I messaged rob asking if they do Cermet B coating on there rebuilds. If so, I'll prolly get that option.

Boostmaniac

Just to let you know, proprietary means "to exclusively hold the rights for." So other than the fact that it has nothing whatsoever to do with not releasing wear statistics.

Sorry, had to correct that. Upon research I found a bunch of posts that referred to "proprietary" in incorrect sentiments.

Basically, does anyone have any info on motors that have had this done to them. I'm basically curious as to how they run and how well they respond to power.

Thanks.

idsigloo

^^^ Also, I'd like to know about longevity inceases of engines with this stuff!

staticguitar313

iTrader: (2)

well: does the **** work or NOT!!!?

Boostmaniac

Hoping so...

:::fingers crossed:::

Phantomkid

haha looks like we got a bunch of people who wanna know if its worth it. im looking for housing depending on the shape of the housing i mightbe getting this coating. but as far right now im with all the others wanting to konw if its worth the cost. 900 is crazy your right about the cost of new ones

Boostmaniac

Yeah, but if this coating is worth a damn and offers a better surface than a new stock replacement....

It would definitely be worth the cost.

doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

'developed In house, exclusive to thier use' is usually how the word works when looking at any literature or sales information in the last 15 years or so..

AS I said, I've asked these questions to them ( JHB ) and the Ontario Rep only to be aggressively attacked for doing so y the Ontario rep and his buddies and in the one instance that JHB did come online to answer questions they chose to lie about information availability and skirted the other questions.

They've lost ~ 8-12 customers this year alone from me based on thier practices and unwillingness to even devulge the simplest of information like a basic wear test or what seals work the best..

One of the reasons they could not answer any of these questions months ago was the fact that NO ONE had even put together an engine and run with these new coatings. the peole they chose to referr to as ' long time users ' hadn't even put a motor together with thier housings yet.

BoostedRex

So nobody has any info as to what seals would work best? Because I'd like to run RA seals in my next motor, but I won't do that unless the rotor housings are brand new or coated. Just curious if the coating can hold up to the seals or not.

iceblue

OEM with cryo treatment