iceblue

We know it makes the metal stronger so less grooving. I would have to call them but from what we have seen yes it wears less. Cryo is very cheep though 75$ a housing.

One of the upcoming things I want to test is. Cryo Eshaft, stats having the assembly balanced if I can achieve more REVs from the crank not flexing as much and the stats being much stronger.

idsigloo

Can you cryo treat my alternator too?

Boostmaniac

I think the point he is trying to make there is that the E-shaft is extremely strong from the factory and cryo treating it would most likely be useless.

But...

If you could cryo treat the ring gears (stationary and rotor) then you would definitely be able to make a high revving motor, seeing as these are the parts that normally fail at high revs dues to cracking and deformation. I'd be really interested to see the wear rates on cryo treated ring gears in a high revving application. It would make some of those super expensive (high rev) gears that certain companies make completely useless if you could simply make the stock gears stronger.

I also want to cryo treat my air pump in addition to my alternator.

tinvestor

Wow you people are dense or just dont grasp the concept of the strength involved with a perfect cristaline structure. Or maybe you dont understand the flex in the center of the shaft that causes the rotors to change angle slightly. They (the rotors) then need to be race clearenced. now you have some idiot trying to reinvent your rotor! All of this equals power loses in exchange for higher RPM. If you can get the RPM without messing with your rotor not only do you save the money from the clearencing you minimize the risk of someone F**ING UP your rotors. If you dont believe the E shaft flexes in the middle check out this link
http://www.xtremerotaries.com/main2/guru/eshaft.htm

LINK FIXED OOPS.

idsigloo

Your link doesn't work. I'm not trying to build an engine that red's at 12k rpms. That would require a whole lot of money. So I'll save the cryo treated e-shafts for the race teams.

tinvestor

Yes that is nice but what I am saying is dont be an *** about it he is taking time to explain a valid solution for a real problem and you come back with "cryo my alternator" Just keep an open mind when people are trying to enlighten you.

Fixed the link sorry.

Boostmaniac

I'll be honset, I looked at that Eshaft page and it IS nice, but I have no idea when I should use it. At what RPM does the Eshaft flex? I've only heard of Eshaft failure once and it was a complete freak accident (it snapped in half). I've heard stories of a stock Eshaft spinning to 14k rpm. Now I am certain the rotors were race clearanced so now I am curious at what rpm does race clearancing become neccesary?

I really would like those answers though, not trying to be an ***, just trying to see a different point of view.

But to be honest, I'd probably race clearance because it costs less.

idsigloo

Someone in the RX-8 forum said he was going 11.5k rpms with no problems. I did a search for eccentric shaft flex in google and it came up. The only positive to cryo treating the e-shaft is to raise the rpm roof of it. How high is that roof? We don't know. Will it work better then the two piece e-shaft? Don't know. But it would be a cheaper alternative to the two piece. Race clearencing will make the rotor operate better above 8500rpms but how high will it go. And if the stock e-shaft can go to 11.5k like the RX-8 guys says, or even 10k with out older engines, that is still alot higher then 8500rpms. I don't think there is any use for cryoing an e-shaft because no one will be making an engine that reds at 12k or 14k or whatever, unless this is like a racecar that a group of people can drop a load of money into.

Boostmaniac

I searched and couldn't find it. Still can't actually.

idsigloo

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=89479

idsigloo

The past two pages have had nothing to do with Cermet B. I hope a mod closes this thread.

Boostmaniac

Actually, I was wondering if they could post those JHB specs again. I was trying to make sense of some of it, but I was to drunk at the time.

Carzy Driver

does anyone know what JBH's definition of a "re-usable" core is? I thought it doesn't really matter how many miles a housing has seen or what condition it's in because it going to be machined, resurfaced, and machined again.

idsigloo

They remove the chrome facing from the housing, so anything that isn't warped or where the coolant passages aren't damaged. Any damage in the facing itself, like something that went through the chrome facing, won't be usable.

Carzy Driver

flaking is ok? but deep scoring isn't, correct?

idsigloo

Ya, they remove the chrome and replace it with the cermet coating

idsigloo

What's the different between A and B?

My5ABaby

iTrader: (7)

Although they don't have much to do with Cermet B, there's still a lot of useful information in this thread along with good discussion (for the most part). Just because it's gotten off topic doesn't make it useless.

As far as I'm concerned, **** the heat factor. I don't see the heat transferability as being the main factor when it comes to cryogenics. The main point of it, in my mind, is the increased durability.

I can always upgrade my radiator or what-not to increase cooling, but I can't just magically make my rotors/housing/seals last longer... WITHOUT some sort of treatment, whether it be Cermet or Cryogenics.

Once again, the cooling isn't the main issue. Improving the cooling in your car isn't hard. However, improving the life of your engine is. I'll take a longer lasting engine anyday, regardless of if I have to throw in a Koyo (or whatever) with it.

To clarify, I'm not saying that it will NEED better cooling. All I'm saying is, who cares about the cooling factor? That's not the main point of the treatment.

Cermet A's facts have been posted up, what little of them I could find. I would assume Cermet B is an advancement of the Cermet A formula. However, it would be nice to have JHB or someone else using "Cermet B" (a name they made up I believe) to post up some facts.

I just don't think people are getting the idea of the cryogenic treatment. IT MAKES YOUR ENGINE MORE DURABLE. Whether it's worth the money or not is up to you. I can't say how much cryogenic treatment affects our engines, but it has been PROVEN to provide increased hardness in metals along with dimensional stability.

I also don't think people are grasping the idea of Cermet's. Believe it or not, plain metal isn't the best substance available for every application. There's a reason Cermet's have been developed.

In general they provide better thermal characteristics, lower friction coefficients and increased durability. They're made for high strength/high heat situations... gasp... like an engine.

Now, whether or not the upgrade is worth the cost... we'll see.

My5ABaby

iTrader: (7)

Possibly informative.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...v96/ai_6321225

idsigloo

The Cermet A option on jhbperformance.com costs twice as much than the Cermet B option. I don't believe an advanced Cermet, B, would cost less. I would e-mail jhb asking the difference but any information I get I wouldn't be allowed to put on the board for some reason so I'm not going to bother.