CAS Stuck
02-04-17, 05:41 PM
#1
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CAS Stuck
i think my timing is off, so i lined everything up and removed the one 10mm bolt that holds the crank angle sensor in place and the damn thing wont budge. i soaked the base in pb blaster but it still hasnt moved. anyone run into this problem before? 1991 NA
02-05-17, 09:58 AM
#2
Engine, Not Motor
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What do you mean "think"?
The only way to tell if your timing is off is to set the initial set coupler, connect up a timing light and check the timing.
And it's a good thing your CAS is stuck because arbitrarily moving it without a timing light is just going to cause you issues.
Now once you have your timing light, you can check timing and adjust the CAS if necessary.
I have seen them stick many times. Moisture gets between the stem of the CAS and front cover. Usually can be freed up by whacking with a mallet from below. Use a piece of 2x4 to aid in applying blows. Sometimes, the mounting ear can be struck as well but be very careful as you can break it off.
The only way to tell if your timing is off is to set the initial set coupler, connect up a timing light and check the timing.
And it's a good thing your CAS is stuck because arbitrarily moving it without a timing light is just going to cause you issues.
Now once you have your timing light, you can check timing and adjust the CAS if necessary.
I have seen them stick many times. Moisture gets between the stem of the CAS and front cover. Usually can be freed up by whacking with a mallet from below. Use a piece of 2x4 to aid in applying blows. Sometimes, the mounting ear can be struck as well but be very careful as you can break it off.
02-05-17, 01:06 PM
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What do you mean "think"?
The only way to tell if your timing is off is to set the initial set coupler, connect up a timing light and check the timing.
And it's a good thing your CAS is stuck because arbitrarily moving it without a timing light is just going to cause you issues.
Now once you have your timing light, you can check timing and adjust the CAS if necessary.
I have seen them stick many times. Moisture gets between the stem of the CAS and front cover. Usually can be freed up by whacking with a mallet from below. Use a piece of 2x4 to aid in applying blows. Sometimes, the mounting ear can be struck as well but be very careful as you can break it off.
The only way to tell if your timing is off is to set the initial set coupler, connect up a timing light and check the timing.
And it's a good thing your CAS is stuck because arbitrarily moving it without a timing light is just going to cause you issues.
Now once you have your timing light, you can check timing and adjust the CAS if necessary.
I have seen them stick many times. Moisture gets between the stem of the CAS and front cover. Usually can be freed up by whacking with a mallet from below. Use a piece of 2x4 to aid in applying blows. Sometimes, the mounting ear can be struck as well but be very careful as you can break it off.
A very long story short is that this car has sat since 98', funny enough i used your page to properly get it set to come back to life.
i thought my crank no start issue was old injectors but when it didnt start and everything else was off the list. timing or a crapped out ecu was my last two options.
02-05-17, 09:57 PM
#4
timing doesn't magically just go off.
hell, i've retimed engines with 200k miles that matched the factory witness marks perfectly and every time i stab a CAS i can get it within a few degrees just because of how predictable the CAS setting is. there is very little room for error in it, all you really are trying to do is create more problems by not following basic diagnostic steps. so being that it's frozen in place i doubt it has ever been touched, which means it most likely isn't the issue.
test:
spark
fuel
compression
not in any particular order.
hell, i've retimed engines with 200k miles that matched the factory witness marks perfectly and every time i stab a CAS i can get it within a few degrees just because of how predictable the CAS setting is. there is very little room for error in it, all you really are trying to do is create more problems by not following basic diagnostic steps. so being that it's frozen in place i doubt it has ever been touched, which means it most likely isn't the issue.
test:
spark
fuel
compression
not in any particular order.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 02-05-17 at 10:01 PM.
02-05-17, 11:36 PM
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timing doesn't magically just go off.
hell, i've retimed engines with 200k miles that matched the factory witness marks perfectly and every time i stab a CAS i can get it within a few degrees just because of how predictable the CAS setting is. there is very little room for error in it, all you really are trying to do is create more problems by not following basic diagnostic steps. so being that it's frozen in place i doubt it has ever been touched, which means it most likely isn't the issue.
test:
spark
fuel
compression
not in any particular order.
hell, i've retimed engines with 200k miles that matched the factory witness marks perfectly and every time i stab a CAS i can get it within a few degrees just because of how predictable the CAS setting is. there is very little room for error in it, all you really are trying to do is create more problems by not following basic diagnostic steps. so being that it's frozen in place i doubt it has ever been touched, which means it most likely isn't the issue.
test:
spark
fuel
compression
not in any particular order.
02-06-17, 11:47 AM
#6
i'm not the one who thought it was a good idea to mess with the timing without a timing light. the timing light can even tell you if you were barking up the wrong tree in the first place.
anyways, i'd do diagnostics as follows:
do a basic compression test if the engine is unknown condition, since yours has been sitting it certainly is unknown even if it ran years ago
if compression is ok, check for spark at both leading plugs. not just any random plugs but the ones physically in the engine you are using
if you have spark then i would check fuel by spraying starting fluid into the intake by removing the AFM, placing it on the snorkel, open it and spray inside a few shots. if the car starts and runs for a few seconds then stalls you have a fuel issue.
if everything i test continues to give no results to get the engine to fire then i do a pressure test of the cooling system and see if the plugs come out wet with coolant. a car with a faulty coolant seal may in some cases never run again.
in most cases it is something overlooked but somehow checked off the list as being ok.
anyways, i'd do diagnostics as follows:
do a basic compression test if the engine is unknown condition, since yours has been sitting it certainly is unknown even if it ran years ago
if compression is ok, check for spark at both leading plugs. not just any random plugs but the ones physically in the engine you are using
if you have spark then i would check fuel by spraying starting fluid into the intake by removing the AFM, placing it on the snorkel, open it and spray inside a few shots. if the car starts and runs for a few seconds then stalls you have a fuel issue.
if everything i test continues to give no results to get the engine to fire then i do a pressure test of the cooling system and see if the plugs come out wet with coolant. a car with a faulty coolant seal may in some cases never run again.
in most cases it is something overlooked but somehow checked off the list as being ok.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 02-06-17 at 11:55 AM.
02-06-17, 12:07 PM
#7
Originally Posted by Tairon
yo smart *** you think i havent done all these tests? this isnt my first time around, the engine sounds like the timing is off. considering that everything else is in place and i done the basic and advanced diagnostics tests i think its fair to say that i should check the timing. now if you dont have any actual relevant advice, move along.
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02-06-17, 12:24 PM
#8
well i kind of started it, but if he wants more help hes going to have to list what he has done to diagnose the problem. i just get a bit annoyed when people start creating more problems because they don't know where else to turn.
if the cas has the black anti tamper plug on it then it likely has never been touched and almost definitely won't be a timing issue at that point. even if the plug is removed you can usually tell if the CAS has been moved by the disturbed oil, dirt, grease and corrosion. the fact its stuck means it probably has never been moved in its life, which probably is a good thing unless you need it out to test other things like injectors.
if the car has been sitting 7 years and the injectors haven't been out then those are most definitely seized, i assume the pump has been changed though because that wouldn't survive that long just sitting in old fuel or even dry. the whole fuel system pretty much needs to be rebuilt on stored cars for that long before even getting to the point of figuring out why the car was parked in the first place. personally i'd do the aforementioned tests before sinking a bunch of money into a car that has been sitting because you do not need a functioning fuel system to know if the engine will run.
people also tend to have higher hopes than they should with a barn find, i always assume the engine is toast until proven otherwise.
if the cas has the black anti tamper plug on it then it likely has never been touched and almost definitely won't be a timing issue at that point. even if the plug is removed you can usually tell if the CAS has been moved by the disturbed oil, dirt, grease and corrosion. the fact its stuck means it probably has never been moved in its life, which probably is a good thing unless you need it out to test other things like injectors.
if the car has been sitting 7 years and the injectors haven't been out then those are most definitely seized, i assume the pump has been changed though because that wouldn't survive that long just sitting in old fuel or even dry. the whole fuel system pretty much needs to be rebuilt on stored cars for that long before even getting to the point of figuring out why the car was parked in the first place. personally i'd do the aforementioned tests before sinking a bunch of money into a car that has been sitting because you do not need a functioning fuel system to know if the engine will run.
people also tend to have higher hopes than they should with a barn find, i always assume the engine is toast until proven otherwise.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 02-06-17 at 12:46 PM.
02-06-17, 01:31 PM
#9
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Nah. Your message was completely civil. You didn't start anything. Noob just flew completely off the cuff.
Aaron Cake and I are in here, so noob is being watched.
Thanks to the anonymous reporter in this thread.
Agreed that timing is the LAST thing to check unless the CAS has been completely removed and put in wrong. I've had plenty of engines fire up at both ends of timing adjustment.
Decade old fuel, stuck seals, mouse chewed or corroded wiring. Check fuel, compression, and spark.
Aaron Cake and I are in here, so noob is being watched.
Thanks to the anonymous reporter in this thread.
Agreed that timing is the LAST thing to check unless the CAS has been completely removed and put in wrong. I've had plenty of engines fire up at both ends of timing adjustment.
Decade old fuel, stuck seals, mouse chewed or corroded wiring. Check fuel, compression, and spark.
02-06-17, 01:38 PM
#10
i've had engines running with the CAS put in about 90 degrees off, since the firing sequences are so close together in these engines the timing can be off quite a ways and the engines will still run.
won't run well but it'll run, if the engine is healthy that is.
won't run well but it'll run, if the engine is healthy that is.
02-09-17, 12:16 AM
#11
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Aaron's suggestion though about HOW to get the Cas out is a good one.
I use the 2x4 trick and also a floor jack.Car propped on jacks...I pump the jack up with the wood on the Cas.. and it goes POP...
One good suggestion is to Spray the **** out of it(Deep creep is my Fave) where the CAS actually meets the Cover,then with some light taps try to move the CAS back and forth like you are adjusting timing.
The corrosion in the hole where the CAS gets stabbed is usually pretty crusty and that is why the damn thing tends to get stuck!
I use the 2x4 trick and also a floor jack.Car propped on jacks...I pump the jack up with the wood on the Cas.. and it goes POP...
One good suggestion is to Spray the **** out of it(Deep creep is my Fave) where the CAS actually meets the Cover,then with some light taps try to move the CAS back and forth like you are adjusting timing.
The corrosion in the hole where the CAS gets stabbed is usually pretty crusty and that is why the damn thing tends to get stuck!
