jinxed4dub

iTrader: (7)

Ok so I'm on my 3rd turbo to manifold gasket each one only lasts a few days before it starts to leak. car has larger than stock injectors, and a stock ECU. Not sure on size, but the guy I got the car from assures me there aftermarket his son put them in and he said he'd ask him, but I haven't talked to him since then. I trust this person's integrity to the fullest, so if he says there big there big. If I had to guess I'd say 720's, but IDK. the first gasket was the one I got on the car it was an OEM gasket, that one blew out the side. the second and third was an after market graphite gasket from Pineapple, I torqued the first one to 33 ft/lbs and drove it. when I replaced it a few weeks later there was only a small peace of gasket left... IDK what happened to the rest of it. so the next one I torqued to 45 ft/lbs. heated it up cooled it down and re torqued it down to 45 ft/lbs. lasted a little longer, but has started to leak again in a week and now a week later. its gotten alot worse. not as bad as last time, but It obviously kills my low end and was only letting be boost to 5.5 PSI without the boost controller. with it I boost to what ever I set it to it just lags a little.

Please help, I have a sweet sounding exhaust when its not leaking.

Also is there a cheaper alternative than the $75 oem gasket, that may hold up. a friend of mine suggested red silicone. He claims you can hold a blow torch to it and it holds up. that's much hotter than 2100*. so could I just use a **** load of RTV red?

more info, I've changed the turbo, and the manifold, since this started. so its not a warped problem, I also checked it with a strait edge last time I had it out.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

there is no alternative to the OEM gaskets that i have ever found that work as well as they do.

you probably have warped mating surfaces, get a straight edge and check the manifold and turbo for warpage and excessive cracking.

jinxed4dub

iTrader: (7)

at the bottom of the original post, I stated I already did that, and I've changed both turbo, and exhaust manifold since this problem showed up. the turbos bearings where going out, so I replaced that, but found my manifold had like 4 cracks, one of them huge. so I replaced that. I've checked all 4 with a strait edge, all are fine.

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

Make sure you use some sort of locking fastener to hold the manifold to the engine. I prefer ATP Turbo's locking nuts -

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...egory_Code=FST

They have a copper ring on the top that locks them in place, but they're still easy to remove down the road. The heat cycles can make non-locking fasteners back out.

Also a good idea to back those nuts up with flat washers so you get a large clamp load.

I haven't used the Pineapple gaskets, but the OEM gaskets are definitely winners. Might also want to look for some good used ones, I've sold a bunch in the past, they can be re-used many times if they seal properly.

Also, you NEVER want to use RTV on exhaust gaskets. Clean, true mating surfaces and a good gasket with good locking fasteners is all you need.

Dale

FirebirdSlayer666

iTrader: (3)

Do you have a wideband? If you have big injectors and a stock ECU, you could be running pig rich and blowing the gaskets out. Do you back fire or shot alot of flames?

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

why would running rich blow out a gasket? running rich allows the exhaust to run cooler, not hotter.

i agree with Dale, the only other thing i can think of is your fasteners are backing off. however i haven't had any success with the brass lock type nuts anywhere near the turbo on these engines, maybe they were just cheap compared to the ATP turbo ones though. they couldn't take the stress of much torque and were hardly usable for one use.

the FD turbo manifold to block fasteners are the best i have yet to use but they also cost about $8 each or so.

K-Tune

iTrader: (26)

have you checked your turbo manifold for warpage?

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

last line in the post. i didn't get that far because i was wondering what the fuel system had to do with the exhaust gasket.

K-Tune

iTrader: (26)

ah i see now... an OEM metal gasket torqued properly should not leak for many years.

jinxed4dub

iTrader: (7)

I didn't think the silicone would work, it was my friend corys idea, but would loctyte or somthing work to lock the nuts down , but figured I'd ask maybe someone did it with success. I just can't afford 75 bucks this month. I'm barley getting by as it is. alot of things came up that cost too much money, and I don't have a job or real source of income. I just do side jobs, and fix my friends cars for cash here and there. I guess I'll look for a used OEM

I was talking about the fuel system thinking it may be the cause. I know it runs pig rich. cause the pineapple gaskets should last more than a week. but I do boost allot, pretty much any time I can. But I do think something is up. cause the first thing that happened was the cat failed internally, and went from perfect to a bunch of broken bits. I didn't even have to work to get it hollowed.

I checked my timing once before, but I didn't rev it up to 4 grand, and I didn't put the set coupler in. but it was pretty far from the line. but I think it may be my timing light. I let my friend borrow it and he left it outside during the rain, so it may be messed up. it has adjustable advance control on it so its not just a basic light. but it was like 24* advanced (according to my light) at Idle, I haven't changed it cause it idles fine, It could use some tuning its kind of low, its steady but somtimes its as low at 500 somtimes its at 750. plus I've boosted to 14 once on accident, I have it set for 9.5-10 PSI now. so it it was that far off wouldn't I already be blown up?

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

just find a used one in decent shape and try to find some locking nuts or at least replace the OEM lock washers so they work properly. after get the idle down below 1k RPMs and check the timing, if it is too far retarded then it will overheat the exhaust.

FirebirdSlayer666

iTrader: (3)

No, it doesn't. You've obviously never seen raw fuel hit a hot exhaust manifold or seen one glow bright red from running rich. That would also cause his cat to burn up also which it did. He's running bigger injectors with no way to control them. igniton of the fuel in the manifold will blow the gaskets out

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

you're right, i haven't because it won't, which is why i mentioned ignition timing... more fuel cools exhaust leaner will heat it up to an extent, not the other way around. do some research before calling me out please.

FirebirdSlayer666

iTrader: (3)

Don't need to. I've actually seen it first hand. I've watched headers glow red hot on warm up from running rich. I'll go back to saying you've obviously never seen raw fuel hit a hot manifold. Where do you think the flames come from on 7's when they have straight exhausts? Unburnt fuel is hitting the manifold and igniting.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

wth, wrong thread.

jinxed4dub

iTrader: (7)

Well one thing to mention is all the rest of the stainless gaskets are holding up. engine to manifold is fine, down pipe to cat is fine, cat to cat back is fine. I do get flames, but not tons. I'm just tired of pulling this turbo every 2 weeks. its cool for a week then it starts, just a slight put put sound, can barley hear it, then over the next week it completely blows out! I actually may be running lean even with the big injectors. I'm not sure if the fuel pump is stock or not. I'm thinking stock. see the guy I got it from knows alot about the stock rotary, but not alot about modding anything. he knows a little. he knew to put in bigger injectors with higher boost, but he thinks the boost would be safe at 12, I'm happy with 10 untill I get some sort of engine management. I'm planning on getting R tec 2.1 He was into rotarys for years, but only had the turbo for a few of them years, and didn't really study the whole theory of forced induction. he thought using low octain gas was fine, and he modded it put an FCD and a catback on without installing a boost gauge. but he said he's too old to drive this car, and he doesn't wan't to work on it anymore. He now drives a Chevy Aveo, He didn't wan't it just sitting anymore, so He gave it to me.

More info of things that could be wrong. I know the wiring is junk. I've already had to splice tons of burnt and broken wires. all just do to excess heat over the years.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i'm still leaning towards the bolts working loose causing the exhaust to begin to leak. once you develop a leak it will blow torch that gasket right out of there. my turbo gets cherry red all the time and the stock gasket has been fine for years pushing 300 to the wheels, the stainless manifold however can't say the same.

jinxed4dub

iTrader: (7)

well I think you may be right about them just backing out. but why. I put it at 45 foot pounds. I did notice today that my engine and tranny mounts mostly my tranny mount are toast. I can grab the DP and move the tranny over about 3/16 of an inch side to side, and it stays where ever I leave it.

alexdimen

iTrader: (13)

Repeated expansion and contraction from heat. Split/spring lock washers will not work after being heated to those temps. Regular nuts will loosen. Vibration and additional loads don't make things better.

SpeedOfLife

iTrader: (16)

I have this same issue. I haven't been able to tackle it yet, but having considered this for months and hearing different things I'd have to go with making sure the mating surfaces are flat, using an OEM gasket, and getting GOOD locking nuts, maybe even replace the studs. After all the moving around the turbo and nuts have done the threads could be wearing, too. Most of these cars are 0ver 20 years old, might as well. That'll be what I do once I get to it.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

http://mazdatrix.com/e7.htm

93-95 Nut, Downpipe to Turbo
and Manifold To Engine 01-0010-9YB1

4 of those, they won't back out. i usually put anti-sieze on them just to be sure they actually come off..



http://mazdatrix.com/d5.htm

86-88 Turbo to Manifold 13-4570-N318
Only 1 left- discontinued by Mazda

unfortunately it looks like the original lock plates will no longer be available from mazda although i'm sure you can find them at other places like mcmaster carr for induvidual nuts.

jinxed4dub

iTrader: (7)

Ok, so I'm almost positive my issue is the engine/tranny mounts causing the nuts to back out. I've picked up new lock washers, and some thread locker to glue them down. I may also drill the studs to put some wire through them to help lock them in place. yeah, it will be a PITA to take off the next time but should work out.

I also picked up 4 hockey pucks, 2 are being put to the lathe to make a new tranny mount bushing. and the other 2 will obviously be for the engine. the only problem I seem to come across is the bracket won't come off the bolt to change the mount. I took the 4 14MM bolts off and the 17MM bolt, the center of the mount fell out telling me its toast, but it won't come off no matter how hard I pull/pry. so obviously I can't get it done till I get that off. or I'll just be replacing the next gasket.

jinxed4dub

iTrader: (7)

Ok so I got it all fixed. engine mounts and tranny mounts. and new gaskets (thanks to rob at pineapple) the tranny mount was in peices and was only atached to the tranny by 1 bent bolt, passanger side engine mount was in 2 peices, and the drivers side was about to break in half too. good thing I noticed it when I did or I would of spun the engine out for shure. there wasn't much holding it in place. to be honest a tow strap would of done more for bracing than those engine mounts. the hockey pucks are deffanatly stiff. I can feel the engine really well. but it doesn't shake anymore, and is overall smother than before. I'll save my money for some comp engine mounts.

I'm still running the pineapple gaskets, but I rob ordered me a OEM gasket. I'll change it if this one goes. I hope it holds up though since I used loc tite red. not wanting to break them free agian.
I'll let you guys know next week if the gasket holds. if it last longer than a week I'm claiming success