Chris Blankenship

Im wanting to build an N/A with strong, reliable power getting the most from the stock fuel system possible without going completely full stand alone. I want to know from those experienced ones what the best formulas are from the ground up. I want to know what you N/A guys are doing to your throttle bodies, intakes and auxilary ports for mods and how to. What about using S5 rotors in S4 engines? I have a couple of S4 engines that run but are showing some age and I want to build one really nice N/A. I know swaping a T2 in would be easy but Ive had forced induction before but im more into driving a well balenced car than brute power. My Car:
87 Sport
RB Header and mid section
Dynomax cat back
HKS intake
RB pullleys
Magnacore plug wires
RB oil pan
Most emissions and AC removed (non-power steering)
Intrax springs
KYB AGX's
RB sway bars
Mazdatrix front strut bar and camber plates
roll bar and stripped interior

socalrotor

iTrader: (1)

start by reading this.



https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-gen-archive-72/how-make-beefy-n-need-your-recommendations-31410/

Nitrometano

Make big intake ports, j-bridge in the middle plate, and open the housing exhaust ports, replace the stock appex seals to 3mm Atkins or Hurley. If you want to go carburetor, use a J-Tech intake manifold, is better than the Racing Beat manifold. Use a 650 cfm Holley carburetor. If you want aftermarket proglamable ECU, buy the ECU and you can use the Holley style 4bbl throttle body with the injectors and the fuel rails. That will be enought to run into 11 seconds in a street car. We are running 9.98 in a Toyota Starlet N/A

Jager

iTrader: (10)

I'm going to try and break this down with proper quotes (hoping that I can help).

I had the same questions when I started to talk to my engine builder. His recommendations were (I started with an S4): S5 rotors, s5 stationary gears, virton oil seals (not needed but his preference), and just a full rebuild. This would be accomadated by his "Stage 1 Port" that has turned 195 HP on a s5 just using a safc, then car ran out of fuel at high RPMs ;o.

For fuel a Walbro (because it's new) was recommended and he told me to deal with the richness or replace my FPR. I personally will probably just do a FD fuel pump (both drop in).

Most NA's run out of juice with stock fuel systems at 195HP depenending on the tune, so 550 secondaries are needed at minimum. 550ccx4 should suffice what you want. Run a SAFC to tune it and lean out your air fuel ratios.

Alot of NA guys use a s4 NA LIM and an s5 na UIM with VDI. This gives a killer/flat torque curve. Check out Buzz in the dyno section, he makes 193.9 using a full s5 combination, others claim that the s4 bottom end is better, so its up to you want you're willing to try. Port the throttle body for better reponse.

AUX ports have 3 choices that to me seem logical: Totally removing the 5th and 6th ports (sleeves and all). Pineapple Sleeves, or just not messing around with them.

Great choice! Lightest FC ever!
I actually suggest since that you're aiming for the best that you can do. I'de go two ways if I were you:

RB header and presilencer with a cat-back of your choice. Dynomax isn't a bad choice but why not go SS for roughly $30 more with a Borla system (that only weighs 11lbs MORE then a Corksport ;O!)

or

Custom! Kahren 3" header, RB inline presilencer, custom cat-back with 6" or 7" can with tip of your choice.

I've heard bad things about that filter, but if you want it go nuts. I suggest in the minimum a cold air box or a fenderwell intake, search will supply you with both.

Is this a race car? For a street car the pullies will just tax an already taxed electrical system and is typically not recommended. Magnecore wires aren't bad, but there is no documented gain espcially since the added protected is on the cold side of the engine.

Track car? If not its probably overkill. Unless it is on the track often I don't see the point.

Don't forget about tar in the back, spare, jack, lighter seats, lighter flywheel, and so on, check out some of the weight reduction threads, some people document what they remove.

Intrax's have soft spring rates, so if you are on the track alot you won't like them. KYB AGX's are fine, RB sway bars are fine, but according to Bukwild the convertable sway bars are close to the same diameter. I picked my Vert sways up for free. Just buy the endlinks (that should be added onto this list) for the sway bars. Racing Beat makes them.

Mazdatrix strut bars and camber plates is just fine.

For a street car I find that a totally stripped interior is sorta gay and a waste of a car. Its your choice but at least keep whats up front. Make sure you get the tar under the carpet too. Lighter seats will also knock some weight off.

!!!!

Jager

iTrader: (10)

Oh and don't forget a new clutch and suspension bushings.

!!!!!!

Needa13b

One guy spent all day chipping that sound deadening stuff up, put it in a bag a weighed it to be about 5 lbs. So 5 lbs. plus the 15lbs. you'll lose during the workout trying to get it all out. That's 20 lbs. right there. For a street application, you should probably keep it, or gut that **** out, and replace with dynamat.

Jager

iTrader: (10)

It looks tacky and just makes the car louder. The carpets don't even weigh that much.

I only took off dead weight from the engine.

adrock3217

First, you do NOT run 3mm on NA, it will decrease power if anything. 3mm is for constant high BOOST, 30+PSI.

Use RA or OEM seals, atkin's and hurley have run into bad products as of late..

Toyota Starlet => Rotary? No? No? Why compare??

CrispyRX7

iTrader: (139)

More like 20lbs! I know...I did the work and saved every last chip of that crap!
http://www.negative-camber.org/crisp...c/fcpart14.htm
FWIW
Crispy

Needa13b

I stand corrected, nice page.

Jager

iTrader: (10)

Ironic when you call him a retard when his build is just fine for him. He swapped the rotary into a Starlet. I'm not familiar with the car but maybe he did and he had a reason for it?

He can run 3MM seals if he'd like, its not your motor so don't fret? It also won't decrease horsepower. Don't you remember what 3MM apex seals were in all RX-7's until 86?

So don't call him a retard. Btw, don't you run true duals , some might say the same about you (not me atm).

Jager

iTrader: (10)

Nice build btw, I seen its name as rusty and was like wtf?

Then I went to the second page. I think all you do is correct people today !

Chris Blankenship

Thanks a lot man, all that stuff that i listed is what i have done to my car already though and as far as the RB oil pan, pulleys and other things go.......i do autocross and do some minimal tracking so they seem to help. Yeah the Intrax's suck but i didnt know and i didnt have the money at the time and i just wanted to go low so you know how that goes. Im going Ground Control coilovers or maybe Mazdatrix but I dont know if i will be able to afford the later of the two. I would like to find some used coilovers if anybody has any. I didnt know Borla made an exhaust for these cars, had i known i would have got it instead. I like their mufflers a lot on my VW's.

adrock3217

I'm also not trying to make maximum horsepower :P I haven't heard anything sound better at cruising speeds or WOT then true duals :P

But eh, notice, Mazda changed over from 3mm? They noticed that they are overkill for NA, and never went back to them, even in the "higher horsepower" turbo versions.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

if you read the factory training manual, Mazda went to a 3 piece 2mm setup in 86 because it seals better than the older design

socalrotor

iTrader: (1)

FTR...... sport models are not the lightest, 4 lug base models are the lightest. The brakes make it heavier.

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

He wants to still use the stock fuel system and stock fuel injection system. How does any of this help him? That's everything he DOESN'T want. That setup would be worthless on the street.

Chris Blankenship

Exactly....................thats a little overkill, time consuming and perhaps somewhat unreliable. I want the absolute most from stock without going completely stand alone.

Chris Blankenship

No Carbs................

ddub

Edited your post for unnecessary flaming

3mm apex seals will not decrease power... It will decrease sealing at low rpms, but mid to high rpms should remain the same. And it has nothing to do with boost, it depends on how much stress you are putting on them.

Cripes, in my opinion 3mm isn't even needed on any boosted application, only drag type engines with some crazy power.

Atkins products haven't changed at all lately. Just because a few people had engine issues doesn't mean the seals are all of a sudden worse than they used to be. The design is still the same. I'll agree with you on hurley, though, but I only have hearsay, no first hand experience.

ddub

True but you seem to quote in many many exhaust threads that they make such great power. He was probably just referencing the fact you say that stuff, when in fact it's untrue.

Mazda changed to 2mm because the the design and strength of the seal got better. Has nothing to do with overkill or not. The engines became more efficient and the seals became stronger. Why not quote how some very early apex seals used to be 6mm! Because the engines were not strong enough for smaller, as well as the seal design. Times change, seals get better, tuning gets better, and smaller is required. In fact, the rx8 uses differently designed 2mm apex seals than our 13b's, does this mean we should use them? No, in fact we wouldn't be able to with our rotors.

Jager

iTrader: (10)

Most people at least want to make usable power ,

!!!!!!

coldfire

iTrader: (1)

SOME things on my list so far:
- S5 rotating assembly
- new housings, or the best you can find
- renesis front and rear stationary gears
- racing beat/Mazda race rotor bearings
- TII oil pump
- RB 80psi oil pressure regulator
- Mazdacomp oil jets
- RB oil pan baffle

sounds like you want reliability so especially pay attention to having a good oil and cooling system. a good oil cooler and aluminum radiator can help a lot.

as for porting, if you do it right it's not going to affect reliability, so it just depends how much more power (and money willing to spend) you want. all the mods i mentioned are good with or without porting. it's always good to "over-build" an engine, and to really pay attention to the details. not enough people do that...

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

Amen. The way I see it you should just spend the money up front instead of half-assing it and it not working well. I'm going to be building a similar engine to that (big on the oil/cooling mods, etc.), but I'm def getting new housings and plan on getting a standalone down the line. Is it necessary to get the TII oil pump, though? I thought the NA one was plenty for our needs.

coldfire

iTrader: (1)

yes, standalone is essential if you really want to get the most out of a non-stock engine.

the TII oil pump? well i can't say if it is really a big difference. you are right, the NA pump is most likely adequate. but hey, it's not an expensive item to find, might as well