EvenOlder

I'm pretty sure the starter is going bad.
Reasoning:
At different cold starts, sometimes it's fast easy revs, sometimes nearly slow as molasses.
Yesterday, it clicked a bunch and aaaallllmmost turned over. I put it in first gear with the key out and ebrake off, jumped out and shoved the car forward real hard until it started to try and turn the engine, then when I turned the key it started normally.

Question,
any experience with different starter motors?

autopartswarehouse.com has:
1. NSA starter complete, no core needed $147
2. USA industries, core charge applies $106 + $19.23
3. Bosch core separate $101 + $55

Any thoughts? What does the core refer to?
I'll do a writeup as there isn't one in the archives

steve

SpeedOfLife

iTrader: (16)

It could be your ignition switch. My old switch was sending less than 12V to the solenoid (sometimes 6-8V), and often none at all. It had exactly the same symptoms. I installed two new starters, two new batteries, and an S5 alt looking for a solution (all those things needed to be replaced anyway, but they didn't solve that problem).

Check the voltage on the solenoid switch line while you turn it over. If it's less than 11-12V I'm betting that's your problem.

farberio

iTrader: (7)

The core is the starter in your car now.
Basically, a re builder takes someones crappy old starter, takes it apart and cleans everything, replaces wires and needed parts, and then sells it to you for $$ Plus your starter.

The one with no core needed is brand new everything.

As SOL referred to, it could be a bunch of different things, though a starter is always prone to going out at some point being as old as it is.

HAILERS

NAPA has the brushes for approx 30 bucks including tax. Pull the cover off and take a look. I'd bet you find two of the four brushes are minimal. Just a thought. Cheaper than a rebuild.

EvenOlder

SpeedOfLife-
If you're feeling generous, would you mind saving me the time of looking up things in my Haynes manual and the FSM and direct me to the solenoid switch line?

I'm going to try and remove the starter assembly and:
1. When turning the key to start the car test the voltage of the thin line to starter and some ground after re-reading the fairly nebulous threads on this topic for the location of things

and

2. Open it up and look at the brushes.

Side Note- could a poorly performing starter cause low compression readings? -you know, slow turning of the motor.

Thanks everyone,
steve

pfsantos

iTrader: (1)

Yes, a slow turning starter will show lower compression readings. To check voltage going to the solenoid, unplug the wire that goes to the solenoid. You'll see a female connector on the harness, going to the smaller cylinder beside the starter. Make sure you're in neutral, wheels chocked, etc. (yes, I know the starter solenoid is unhooked at this point, but just being safe). Have someone turn the ign. key to start, and check voltage.

SpeedOfLife

iTrader: (16)

I found it was easiest to access it right at the solenoid, which is attached directly to the starter. There are three wires that touch the starter/solenoid unit:
1) + line straight from the battery
2) power cable from the solenoid to the starter
3) solenoid switch line.

The switch line will be about a 14ga wire coming from the engine bay; if you don't know wire sizing, the whole wire with insulation will be significantly smaller than 1/4" in diameter. Also, IIRC, it will be colored black with a white stripe. Using alligator clips or spring hooks on the ends of your test leads will make this easier. Connect straight to the switch line where it meets the solenoid and ground your common contact and watch the voltage while trying to start.

EvenOlder

This will document my starter motor/solenoid/switch testing and replacement. Mods might consider this for the archives. Everyone please critique it.

Orientation of the 3 lines, a. Solenoid switch line b. Direct-from-battery line c. Solenoid-to-starter line
Refer To Picture 1
The solenoid grounds both the switch line and the direct-from-battery line against the transmission housing via contact with the starter, which is in contact with the transmission, which is grounded.
When you turn the key, power from the solenoid switch line slides the solenoid forward (The "click" you can hear) and power from the direct-from-battery line then travels across to the solenoid-to-starter line.

Testing the Solenoid Switch Line
Refer to Picture 2 and 3.
1. Unplug the solenoid switch line
2. Connect the hot (+) line from your test to the line (Pic 2)
3. Ground against the mounting plate holding the wires at the front side of starter, because this plate is held by the long bolt holding the starter itself (Pic 3)
4. Set your tester to measure voltage in the range of 12V
5. Push in the clutch and turn the key. You should find voltages from 11-12 volts. If it's lower, then your problem lies not with the solenoid or starter, but the power getting to it.
(In my case, it was exactly 11.57 volts every key turn, which led me to the next step, in the next reply)

EvenOlder

Removing the Starter Motor and attached Solenoid
Refer to picture 1
1. Disconnect your battery negative terminal hookup
2. Disconnect the Solenoid Switch Line (Probably already done from testing it)
3. Remove the upper, long bolt. You will likely need a wrench for each end of it. When you're taking it out, remember it's through the wire routing plate at the front.
4. Get something that the starter can rest on just below it, because it's heavy and after the next step it's easier if it's supported.
5. Remove the lower, short bolt. Gently wiggle the starter towards the rear of the car around 5-6" to get it out of the transmission housing, but don't yank it as it's still connected to the direct-to-battery line.
6. Push the rubber boot to the side and remove the nut holding the direct-to-battery line, then slip off the line.
7. Starter is out.

EvenOlder

Dropping out of writeup mode, this is what I found in the starter:
1. Rust inside the cap
2. Black dirt/coating the entire main inside
3. Rust on the inner thing.

Question- where are/which are the brushes?

Thanks for following/helping, SpeedOfLife
Hailers guessed right I believe

Time to order a new starter
then finish writeup
steve