KrazyRX-7

lol, clokker....your amazing, i know your smart. i have read many posts from you with lots of info...but you missed somthing. if you want Scroth RACING HARNESSES click the page NEXT to tuning.....their tuning set belts mount one way, their racing belts are mounted to meet ANY RACING GUIDLINES...just thought i would thow that out there lol. their tuning belts are for STREET car's and dot approved(and can be used for MINOR tracking), their competition belts are for cars to be taken to the track and mount another way, says so on their site. Please reseach out somthing befor you open your mouth and blast it....it also might help to speak with a sales member about the in's and outs of their product. regaurdless, their product is about as safe as you can get. you want a full track belt, dont buy their tuning belt simple as that.Sorry, but i thought i would lol while you blast a street product for not being track ready.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

So, their "tuner" belts are basically poorly mounted "racing" belts then.
What would be the incentive for me to want them over stock belts, the looks?

KrazyRX-7

Look, Clokker. Nothing personal. The OP asked about seat belt's and what he can do that isnt the factory belts. I posted the site, and clued you into the fact that their are belts out there that are dot approved and dont need a cage to give safty. I dont care what you or anyone else in this fourm dose to their car so I cant give you a reason to add that item to your car. sorry.

Lets take a step back and think, if your not going to be using this car on the track, then its a street car, and we all know that you are not going to go faster than around 75 on ANY ROAD in america(Well there is ONE road in montana), We also know that chances you will flip your car while driving in a legal maner on public roads is slim(Compared to at the track). It dose happen but its slim. The tuner belts would be for this car if this is the thing your into.

If you want to do somthing at the speed of crazy on a race track or other approved area(Not a public road), Then fliping your car becomes a very real ending to your fun, You now might be moving in speeds of over 160mph and pushing your car and yourslef to the very limit. The comp belts would be for this car if its the thing your into. HOW EVER! Once you remove the factory safty belts(And do not replace them with dot compliant belts) your car is no longer DOT compliant, and you can't legally drive it on public roads.

The OP made no mention as to if his car was a street or track car and you stated that as far as you knew if he wanted a haness, a cage was the only option. I was going to be lazy and just post a company that i feel takes pride and care in saving peoples lives with their product. As to witch product he picks is up to him and maby the sales team at Scroth Racing. I never suggested witch belt simply because safty equipment is somthing you need to research untell your so sick of safty guidlines you wanna hurt small dogs, then go read some more. why? I have a simple answer, I think I can speak for everyone human that is in the auto racing hobbie or profession when I say that no one wins on race day if some one get's hurt, or god forbid die enjoying this amazing sport. Common sence saved the day?Best of luck to all.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Well, you're right, nothing personal about it and you deserve credit for responding to the OP's request.
I was simply pointing out that the "tuner" belts are more likely to cause injury than even the stock belts...they are essentially all looks and I stand behind the assertion that a four/five/six point harness can only be correctly installed with a cage/rollbar, DOT approval be damned.

It's this bit:
...where things start to derail.
The vast majority of traffic fatalities occur at speeds less than 50mph.
People can and do flip cars at speeds far lower than 160 and should be confident in their safety equipment at any speed.

I would say that these tuner belts are nothing more than an attempt to make money by selling an adaptation of real racing tech to street gleeks.

KrazyRX-7

Yes, most fatalities occur at speeds less than 50mph. I was only making the point that Fliping your car over, is not somthing people manage to do. Statisticly, Everyone will "Wreck" their car at some point in their life. How many poeple manage to FLIP their car in a lifetime? Take out Auto Sports and the precentile of people that flip their car drops. It dose happen, but you are far more likly to hit a parked car head on, merg into some one in a blind spot or some other sort of mayhem. And lastly, I couldnt not agree more that you can never be fully confedent in your safety equipment what ever they may be doing in their car.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

You seem to be assuming that the poor mounting location of these belts only matters in case of a rollover and I don't believe that's true.

Just out of curiosity, would you install them in your car?

MadScience_7

An extreme example, but rolls do happen.
https://www.rx7club.com/se-rx-7-forum-35/rx7-t2-vert-totalled-708249/

KrazyRX-7

No, I Would use the Autopower Sport roll bar, IF I where to add a "racing" harness. however, i drive an 86 NA, and dont plan to take it to the track. In any "fast car" I own, I only mess with the factory seat belts if i plan to take it to the track, stockers work fine IMO for street use in a slow car such as the NA. Long story short I feel the same way about Racing harnesses on a street only car as I do about putting performance parts on an econo car like the civic or neon(SI's and SRT4's too). Just my opinion, please take with a grain of salt, to each their own

KrazyRX-7

It is a miracle that he lived! However, IMO i have alway's been terrified of vert's, and would never be in a vert of anykind that didnt have some form of roll cage. One should also note that I wont ride a motorcycle on public roads, but that is because of the other people's lack of respect. You may now call me names at will

rx7racerca

iTrader: (1)

Rollovers are both common, and one of the most common causes of fatalities. While they are more common with SUV's, cars can and do roll at normal highway speeds, and even without leaving the highway - I've witnessed it, and seen the results. Lots of rollovers happen on ramps, or when cars enter the ditch (either from taking corners too fast, sliding due to rain or snow, or driver inattention/dozing). I've seen car rollovers that occurred on slight bend wide and flat 80km/h (50mph) multilane freeway in slippery conditions near where I used to live - how the hell people managed I don't know, but they did, regularly.

Point being, rollovers are not especially rare - and a four-point harness with upper attachments near the rear floor, as was pointed out by Clokker, is likely to cause spinal compression injuries and broken collar bones in ANY type of accident, besides holding you fatally upright, using your head to brace the collapsing roof in the event of a serious rollover. So DOT approved or not (more about which in a moment), no racing sanctioning body, even autocross, will allow four point belts mounted with a downward angle on the upper belts lower than 10-15*, and a roll bar at minimum. Sanctioned racing has both a lot of knowledge and interest in safety, I'd put their requirements ahead of DOT/NHTSA.

The OP asked about replacement belts. Regardless of rating, four point belts without a roll bar and proper, near horizontal mounting on the upper belts are not safe. The OP would be better obtaining replacement factory retractors and belts, similar aftermarket pieces, or if going to an aftermarket harness, if 4 or more point, he should install the necessary roll and harness bar to do so safely. If he has the hated American S5 mouse belts, he could replace those with fixed three point belts from Canadian and other market S5 or any S4, he would just need the trim to go with to look proper and finished.

As far as the "DOT approval" of the various "tuner" Schroth belts - if you read the NHTSA letter, it is not really an approval of the design. It dates from 1993, and merely notes that if Schroth makes belts that comply with various aspects - factory mount points, single point of release, and fire-resistance of NHTSA regs on seatbelts, they would be eligible for DOT approval. So it's a bit of a stretch for them to suggest they are DOT approved, merely that they comply with those particular aspects of DOT regs. Which is a misrepresentation that has made me lose a whole bunch of respect for Schroth. The belts comply with some specific regs, but they are not "approved" as a system.
http://www.schrothracing.com/docs/NH...f_Approval.pdf

clokker

iTrader: (2)

T'would seem that you and I agree about most of this stuff.

I am interested by your separation of fast/track cars from slow/86 NA cars regarding accidents though.
A Lada is fast enough to kill you.
Even stationary- a very common scenario- your speed (or lack thereof) is less important than the speed of the car that hits you.

Of course, even caging the car presents problems if it's street driven.
Racing requires helmets, street driving does not and you've just installed all sorts of nice steel bars all around your head.
You can see the potential here.

KrazyRX-7

IMO if the car is not going to be a "race" car, then stockers are fine, safest bet no joke, yes the addition of roll bars makes alot of nice things to bounce your head off of, and even the padding you can get sucks at best for a bare head. And yes the speed has nothing to do with it, I agree. I have used roll cages in street car's in the past, its give and take, the only thing that realy bothers me about the FC in a wreak is its size. Nothing to disipate kenetic energy or enersha(gessing on that spelling sorry). If it wernt so darn fun to drive it would be dumb from a safty/eco mind set. "One more thing" best pice of safty equpment you can place on/or in your car, is a compatent driver. MOST of these situations could be avoided if people would show the road/track/car's the proper respect, but even then its not enough. its a shame too.

Demonsniper1

iTrader: (2)

Please inform me how that post was nonsence?

KrazyRX-7

Go read some review's on their product( or maby even try it befor you bash it?), then post.I'll bet you have no experiance with them or their product so you are forming an opinion with out full understanding.
Food for thought: you can get their product as a factory option on BMW's.

lunardeathgod

so after being lost in my question i have come up with the answers from reading


1) Almost any seat will fit as long as i work on the rails, especially the passenger side.

2) a harness will work, but if i want to mount it correctly and the right way (the safe way) i should install a roll cage

and the last question i had was that I have the back seats in my car, can I mount a bar from were the 2 back seat belts are located? I know some cars have this option, but is it safe for the rx7?

KrazyRX-7

yes, Please check your Local law's about what is street legal or not if you intend to drive it on the street, I had a mustang in SoCal with a NHRA legal roll cage and harness. It was NOT street legal. I would hate for you to mod your car only to get into trouble with local LEO's From what i hear Auto power has one of the better bolt in cages for a FC, but I have no expreiance with that product, some say the mounting of their cage is a tad on the iffy side.Best of luck, and post pics of the seats when/if you get them in. as far as the bar idea you have i have no idea if that would be safe or legal.