beefing up internals...3mm, ceramic seals...and so on
12-07-04, 09:55 PM
#1
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beefing up internals...3mm, ceramic seals...and so on
How much power should a s5 turbo engine be producing before it is recommended to upgrade to
3mm apex seals?
ceramic seal?
any other internals that should be beefed up?
3mm apex seals?
ceramic seal?
any other internals that should be beefed up?
12-07-04, 09:59 PM
#2
I wish I was driving!
Originally Posted by krazykoncepts
How much power should a s5 turbo engine be producing before it is recommended to upgrade to
3mm apex seals?
ceramic seal?
any other internals that should be beefed up?
3mm apex seals?
ceramic seal?
any other internals that should be beefed up?
Ceramic: When you go for full-fledged race-only driving.
Beef up the oiling system for very high performance levels.
12-07-04, 10:50 PM
#5
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Stock mazda seals are more than adequate, even for very very high horsepower 13B turbo's. From what I've read/heard, 3mm seals will just take more abuse from detonation and ceramics are just plain overkill unless the engine is being built for MASSIVE power and constant extreme load/heat (road racing). Back in the day, Adam Saruwatari (among many others) ran stock mazda apex seals in his drag FD running 9's and 10's. 3mm seals also require a precise rotoary engine builder as I believe the rotors need to be apex-seal-slots need to be shaved to accept the thicker seals.
12-07-04, 11:51 PM
#7
I wish I was driving!
Originally Posted by hondahater
so what is so great about ceramic seals? Do they last forever?
Seriously.
They also seal better, are more tolerant to high revs, make better top end power and betetr low end torque, better fuel economy, and they put almost zero wear on the rotor housing. They're also better at handling detonation.
BUT... if you blow them with detonation... they take out everything... irons, rotors, rotor housings, turbo... EVERYTHING.
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12-08-04, 07:53 AM
#8
damn! So if you spring for the ceramic seals you would almost never have to rebuild your engine?? Man I think that is well worth the extra 2k. After one rebuild on regular seals it would pay for itself. I don't know maybe I'm just looking at it wrong but damn a seal that last that long is well worth it to me.
12-08-04, 08:02 AM
#11
Jesus is the Messiah
Remember, the apex seals are not the only thing in a rotary that can go bad.
It is not like your coolant, side, or oil seals are garenteed to last forever. (Though they certainly seem to in most of the RX-7s around here)
Besides, the stock apex seals seem to be fine lasting to around 150,000 miles or more from the cars I've seen drive through my garage. Theres a TII here with 180,000 miles on it with the stock engine and 94psi on all faces of both rotors.
I mean, $2000 for seals just at a guess that they will last a while is kind of a gamble, what if you get in an accident and total the car? Will it still be worth it?
For me, two rebiulds would cost $2000 :-p
I'm not trying to discourage anyone, just writing down my thoughts.
Since they seal better all the time, would you notice a higher compression test reading then 120psi? Has anyone done this?
It is not like your coolant, side, or oil seals are garenteed to last forever. (Though they certainly seem to in most of the RX-7s around here)
Besides, the stock apex seals seem to be fine lasting to around 150,000 miles or more from the cars I've seen drive through my garage. Theres a TII here with 180,000 miles on it with the stock engine and 94psi on all faces of both rotors.
I mean, $2000 for seals just at a guess that they will last a while is kind of a gamble, what if you get in an accident and total the car? Will it still be worth it?
For me, two rebiulds would cost $2000 :-p
I'm not trying to discourage anyone, just writing down my thoughts.
Since they seal better all the time, would you notice a higher compression test reading then 120psi? Has anyone done this?
12-08-04, 08:20 AM
#16
Respecognize!
if you want a literally bullet proof motor and you have loads of $$$ i would have the housings etc cast of a titanium-scandium alloy (like what they use in turboprop housings) thne 1/2 bridgeport that beast. (bridgeport will NEVER break with the alloy) then run ceramic apex seals, oyu could probably make ceramic side seals too. Oil seals can be made from one of the many space aged plastic and coolant seals can be derived from a soft metal gasket.
12-08-04, 08:25 AM
#17
Jesus is the Messiah
It would be cool if we had a nice strong clear alloy so we could watch the engine work.
. . . and a sideport exhaust like the renisis, and a PP intake that opens with a butterfly valve at high RPMs, and it will run on biodiesel when you run out of gas, or nitrogen, it will use 'smartplugs' . . . and it wont need coolant or oil because or gaskets the clearences are so perfect and accurate and the metal can take the heat . . . Anyone want to add more? Or are we way too far off topic already?
Now ceramic side seals, THAT is an idea I like!!
. . . and a sideport exhaust like the renisis, and a PP intake that opens with a butterfly valve at high RPMs, and it will run on biodiesel when you run out of gas, or nitrogen, it will use 'smartplugs' . . . and it wont need coolant or oil because or gaskets the clearences are so perfect and accurate and the metal can take the heat . . . Anyone want to add more? Or are we way too far off topic already?
Now ceramic side seals, THAT is an idea I like!!
12-08-04, 09:19 AM
#18
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Originally Posted by Tofuball
It would be cool if we had a nice strong clear alloy so we could watch the engine work.
. . . and a sideport exhaust like the renisis, and a PP intake that opens with a butterfly valve at high RPMs, and it will run on biodiesel when you run out of gas, or nitrogen, it will use 'smartplugs' . . . and it wont need coolant or oil because or gaskets the clearences are so perfect and accurate and the metal can take the heat . . . Anyone want to add more? Or are we way too far off topic already?
Now ceramic side seals, THAT is an idea I like!!
. . . and a sideport exhaust like the renisis, and a PP intake that opens with a butterfly valve at high RPMs, and it will run on biodiesel when you run out of gas, or nitrogen, it will use 'smartplugs' . . . and it wont need coolant or oil because or gaskets the clearences are so perfect and accurate and the metal can take the heat . . . Anyone want to add more? Or are we way too far off topic already?
Now ceramic side seals, THAT is an idea I like!!
Side port exhausts don't lend themselves as well to turbo applications.... which is why Mazda has been experimenting with Superchargers on the RX-8, with plans to release a supercharged version in the spring.
12-08-04, 09:46 AM
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Here's a link to another site with more info:
http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/8/8/9
http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/8/8/9
