Because I would like the 2nd Gen section to chime in;
#1
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Because I would like the 2nd Gen section to chime in;
#2
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I would think that the higher degree will allow the turbo to spool to a higher psi but the lag is going to be more evident because there is less force on the outer blades of the turbo. If the degree was not so steep it would probally spool faster but max out when the pressure of the exhaust gas is maxed. By putting it in further it can spool faster but takes longer getting here. Then again I could be wrong, just my take on the way it works.
#3
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well my local builder said that the main reason to clip a turbo is weight reduction, for inertia but he said there is alot better ways to acomplish that same objective.
we shall see,
P.S. still looking for turbine wheel advice
we shall see,
P.S. still looking for turbine wheel advice
#4
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I always thought you clipped the turbine to make the wheel smaller. Having a smaller wheel in the same size housing wont choke the motor as much at high rpm's.
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Originally posted by Mark'sMazda
I always thought you clipped the turbine to make the wheel smaller. Having a smaller wheel in the same size housing wont choke the motor as much at high rpm's.
I always thought you clipped the turbine to make the wheel smaller. Having a smaller wheel in the same size housing wont choke the motor as much at high rpm's.
#6
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nope if you clip the wheel you actually loose some of it's original desing of the turbine, which is in essence take away from it's performance. In some instances some can be taken off without detrimental consequences however, in this case it seems to have huge consequences...
RPECK have you talked to the *BUILDER* of the turbo in person he migh warantee it, tell him you have a second opinion and they think that the turbo was clipped too much!
RPECK have you talked to the *BUILDER* of the turbo in person he migh warantee it, tell him you have a second opinion and they think that the turbo was clipped too much!
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#8
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Originally posted by jreynish
RPECK have you talked to the *BUILDER* of the turbo in person he migh warantee it, tell him you have a second opinion and they think that the turbo was clipped too much!
RPECK have you talked to the *BUILDER* of the turbo in person he migh warantee it, tell him you have a second opinion and they think that the turbo was clipped too much!
-Robert
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Okay the more I read the more confused I get. I have questions.
Okay, my understanding is that the compressor end of this turbo is a 60-1. I assume that is the size? Of the wheel? Now does that have anything to do with the amount of blades, shape or style of the wheel, or is that just the size?
Being that it is a hybrid my understanding it that the exhaust side is a stock Hitachi HT-18? Is that close? What blades can/will go into that? What do the different Stages mean? What blades am I looking at getting .. should I look for T3 turbines? Or HT18? Or T04?
This just all seems a lot more confusing to me then it should be ..
Thanks.
-Robert
Okay, my understanding is that the compressor end of this turbo is a 60-1. I assume that is the size? Of the wheel? Now does that have anything to do with the amount of blades, shape or style of the wheel, or is that just the size?
Being that it is a hybrid my understanding it that the exhaust side is a stock Hitachi HT-18? Is that close? What blades can/will go into that? What do the different Stages mean? What blades am I looking at getting .. should I look for T3 turbines? Or HT18? Or T04?
This just all seems a lot more confusing to me then it should be ..
Thanks.
-Robert
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Originally posted by carx7
I have a lot to say, but no time right now since I"m at work. I think I can explain it all....I'll reply when I get home this evening
-Chris
I have a lot to say, but no time right now since I"m at work. I think I can explain it all....I'll reply when I get home this evening
-Chris
J/K Please explain some it when you can, thank you.
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the exhaust wheel can be a T04 turbine however it will have to be clipped to fit into the exhaust housing! You will loose some of the wheels capability, But you do have to realize one thing is the stock exhaust turbine housing is "Impact" type, thus the stock exhuast housing will allow a clipped T04 wheel however you will have trouble venting this, Ie waste gate should be severely ported and preferably have a custom WG flapper door installed.
Mine has a T04 wheel machined and the stock housing was machined also to lessen the "impact" properties of the stock Manifold!
I hope that helps you in your quest for knowlege to make an educated decision.
Mine has a T04 wheel machined and the stock housing was machined also to lessen the "impact" properties of the stock Manifold!
I hope that helps you in your quest for knowlege to make an educated decision.
#13
Originally posted by Rpeck
well my local builder said that the main reason to clip a turbo is weight reduction, for inertia but he said there is alot better ways to acomplish that same objective.
well my local builder said that the main reason to clip a turbo is weight reduction, for inertia but he said there is alot better ways to acomplish that same objective.
Originally posted by Mark'sMazda
I always thought you clipped the turbine to make the wheel smaller. Having a smaller wheel in the same size housing wont choke the motor as much at high rpm's.
I always thought you clipped the turbine to make the wheel smaller. Having a smaller wheel in the same size housing wont choke the motor as much at high rpm's.
Originally posted by Rpeck
Okay, my understanding is that the compressor end of this turbo is a 60-1. I assume that is the size? Of the wheel? Now does that have anything to do with the amount of blades, shape or style of the wheel, or is that just the size?
Okay, my understanding is that the compressor end of this turbo is a 60-1. I assume that is the size? Of the wheel? Now does that have anything to do with the amount of blades, shape or style of the wheel, or is that just the size?
Originally posted by Rpeck
Being that it is a hybrid my understanding it that the exhaust side is a stock Hitachi HT-18? Is that close? What blades can/will go into that? What do the different Stages mean? What blades am I looking at getting .. should I look for T3 turbines? Or HT18? Or T04?
Being that it is a hybrid my understanding it that the exhaust side is a stock Hitachi HT-18? Is that close? What blades can/will go into that? What do the different Stages mean? What blades am I looking at getting .. should I look for T3 turbines? Or HT18? Or T04?
Leave the wheel alone
Clip the wheel 5, 10, or 15 degrees
Machine the housing to fit an "O" trim
Machine the housing to fit a "P" trim
Each step up the ladder will result in more flow, more top end, less spool and better boost control. I wouldn't recomend a P trim b/c enough material will need to be machined from the housing that it will tend to fail. An O trim seems to be a fairly good option. I'm not sure why you would clip a T4 type wheel (O trim for example) to fit in the stock housing. Usually you'd just modify the housing.
Either way you will certainly need to increase the W/G flow capability with heavy porting, different flapper door or an adapted external W/G. My problem with all this machining, custom work etc, is that by the time you do all that, you are well on your way to buying small T04B manifold etc.
So, if you are going to stick with the hybrid theory, you might consider an "O" trim turbine wheel with a machined housing..... but be sure to watch out for boost creep, it'll kill a motor if you're not watching.
Does all this help any?
-Chris
#15
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Yeah, right.
Seeing what your wife just posted, I'm betting $10 that she has all the RX-knowledge and does all of the wrenching, and your job is to sit pretty in the passenger seat.
Seeing what your wife just posted, I'm betting $10 that she has all the RX-knowledge and does all of the wrenching, and your job is to sit pretty in the passenger seat.
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Thanks Carx. The married wastegate is ported as large as it will really go, infact it has a bigger cover on it also. I hope thats good enough .. if it is not I will do a divorced wastegate setup of some kind. I am thinking I will see about going P trim with 0, or very little clip. I am sure i will not have a problem producing the ~12-13 PSI or so i want to max out at ... so of all those choices what one would your recomend for responce, but still reach 12-14?
Thanks,
Robert
Thanks,
Robert
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Originally posted by Roro
Maybe, but the main reason for clipping the turbine wheel of a hybrid turbo is to reduce the efficiency of the wheel, which will reduce spool, increase flow capability and ultimately help to control boost creep. There will be a slight decrease in spool but it shouldn't really be that noticeable. A 15 degree clip is fairly normal FWIW.
-Chris
Maybe, but the main reason for clipping the turbine wheel of a hybrid turbo is to reduce the efficiency of the wheel, which will reduce spool, increase flow capability and ultimately help to control boost creep. There will be a slight decrease in spool but it shouldn't really be that noticeable. A 15 degree clip is fairly normal FWIW.
-Chris
Click here to see the dyno sheet if you wnt to now how bad it really was;
Dyno sheet of boost
Unreal huh? for a hybrid? they are getting less lag out of T78+'s
One more question, Garret makes staged wheels .. Stage 1, 2, and 3. Are those compressor end, or Turbine? and what is the diference with those? are they usable on my setup?
Thanks again
-Robert
Last edited by Rpeck; 11-26-03 at 01:43 AM.
#18
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Originally posted by scathcart
Yeah, right.
Seeing what your wife just posted, I'm betting $10 that she has all the RX-knowledge and does all of the wrenching, and your job is to sit pretty in the passenger seat.
Yeah, right.
Seeing what your wife just posted, I'm betting $10 that she has all the RX-knowledge and does all of the wrenching, and your job is to sit pretty in the passenger seat.
On the turbo:
I would say an O trim. I was told by a turbo builder, and based on my knowledge I believe him, that you will need to cut so much material from the turbine housing to run a P trim that you run the risk of the housing cracking and failing.
I should state that I have never used a hybrid turbo, HOWEVER I did research them THOROUGHLY before I purchased the monster that I am running now. Having said that, if I were building a hybrid for myself, I would have chosen the O trim with the 60-1 compressor.
As for stage 1, 2 and 3... that's the turbine wheel, but I don't know really what it means. If I were guessing, I'd say that was just another way of saying that it was clipped 5, 10, or 15 degrees....
#20
Hm. Makes me wonder what exactly is done to my hybrid. Here is what I know:
T04B compressor housing/wheel
Stage 3(whatever that means) turbine wheel and turbine housing machined to fit
360 degree thrust bearing
wastegate ported all to hell with a larger flapper door welded on
Boost is strong as hell, but it falls off towards redline.
T04B compressor housing/wheel
Stage 3(whatever that means) turbine wheel and turbine housing machined to fit
360 degree thrust bearing
wastegate ported all to hell with a larger flapper door welded on
Boost is strong as hell, but it falls off towards redline.
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Originally posted by Ryde _Or_Die
Hm. Makes me wonder what exactly is done to my hybrid. Here is what I know:
T04B compressor housing/wheel
Stage 3(whatever that means) turbine wheel and turbine housing machined to fit
360 degree thrust bearing
wastegate ported all to hell with a larger flapper door welded on
Boost is strong as hell, but it falls off towards redline.
Hm. Makes me wonder what exactly is done to my hybrid. Here is what I know:
T04B compressor housing/wheel
Stage 3(whatever that means) turbine wheel and turbine housing machined to fit
360 degree thrust bearing
wastegate ported all to hell with a larger flapper door welded on
Boost is strong as hell, but it falls off towards redline.
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Ya, Like I have said in some of my other threads concering this. My local turbo guy thinks my severe lag is from huge overkill on the clip... So thats prolly why you seem to boost fine with a similar setup, my boost was still going up at 7.8k though .. so, need a happy medium. I am going to have the **** modded out of this turbo .. then if I am still not happy full T04 is next.
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rpeck,
I know thy hyrbid sounds like a good fix, and you have already invested huge amounts of money into it, but have you sourced out good T04 turbos as it may be just as economical and you would have way more tunability with a to4 then with the hybrid! It may be just a thaught but it may be better for you in the long run!
I know thy hyrbid sounds like a good fix, and you have already invested huge amounts of money into it, but have you sourced out good T04 turbos as it may be just as economical and you would have way more tunability with a to4 then with the hybrid! It may be just a thaught but it may be better for you in the long run!
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Originally posted by jreynish
rpeck,
I know thy hyrbid sounds like a good fix, and you have already invested huge amounts of money into it, but have you sourced out good T04 turbos as it may be just as economical and you would have way more tunability with a to4 then with the hybrid! It may be just a thaught but it may be better for you in the long run!
rpeck,
I know thy hyrbid sounds like a good fix, and you have already invested huge amounts of money into it, but have you sourced out good T04 turbos as it may be just as economical and you would have way more tunability with a to4 then with the hybrid! It may be just a thaught but it may be better for you in the long run!