base timing with streetport?
06-19-09, 02:34 PM
#2
OR.... you could use the original pulley and hub from the engine (don't mismatch them, otherwise get a new pulley from Mazda), where the timing marks are made from the factory by a precise machine. Follow the CAS installation procedure in the FSM, and verify the timing with a timing light. Then adjust the ignition advance at particular boost levels with an aftermarket ECU.
There is no substitute for accurate OEM timing marks IMO, only "good enough" solutions which I feel are inappropriate on turbo cars.
There is no substitute for accurate OEM timing marks IMO, only "good enough" solutions which I feel are inappropriate on turbo cars.
06-19-09, 04:13 PM
#3
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Thank you for your posts. I guess you miss understood me and I probably worded it weird. When I built the motor I installed the cas exactly how the fsm states BUT I am curious if I should be looking to adjust the cas in the retarded or advanced direction for better power. It still has the stock turbo and boost.
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06-19-09, 10:23 PM
#9
To the OP: this thread (http://forum.teamfc3s.org/showthread.php?t=41915) will be helpful in getting an understanding of tuning ignition timing. It looks like some of the well-known turners prefer to retard timing on ported engines. And that's not by playing with the CAS; it's done with a standalone EMS.
I hardly know where to begin. I hope you're trolling, because everything you just said is B.S... The spacer only sets shaft endplay. It has nothing to do with how the CAS gear meshes with the gear on the e-shaft. If it did, the CAS would no longer give the ECU proper timing information & the engine would blow due to spark occurring randomly in the stroke.
The O2 sensor measures percentage of oxygen in the EXHAUST. Sticking it in the intake path would be telling the ECU that the engine is running insanely lean because INTAKE air is 21% oxygen! This could make the ECU dump MORE fuel in whenever it switches into closed loop (cruising) to try to achieve a 14.7:1 ratio. Your fuel economy will get WORSE, and that's if the sensor even works at those low temps. If it doesn't work, economy still gets worse due to no functional O2 feedback. Do you think the O2 sensor is actually used under load conditions? It's not. And that crap about allowing the AFM to not "work as hard" is ridiculous. The AFMs use a door or a cone w/ a spring. How can they "work hard"? Engine vacuum does all the work.
Then we have the idea that switching around four injectors of the EXACT SAME SIZE will have some effect on fuel. Do you really believe this? It won't do a damn thing to smooth out the lean spot before the 3800 RPM transition. And even if you do add more fuel there (by tuning), it's done to make the AFRs safer, which actually means slightly LESS power. More fuel does not equal instant nitrous. That's probably the dumbest thing I've read on here in a long time.
Lastly, rotating the CAS to advance timing 2-4* under every condition on a turbo engine is NOT a good idea. 4* of advance on the stock map, with stock fuel will blow the engine. You can get away with some advance on an NA, but a turbo will not react well. The stock turbo timing map is already on the aggressive side.
if the engine has been ported, the timing marks on the pulley are not accurate at all. i know this from previous teardowns, put togethers, and rebuilds. all front hub spacers are different sizes meaning that the cas degree differs. but anyhow, you want more horse right? better fuel economy? advance the timing by 1/8th of an inch, or 2-4 degrees. it will give you horse but not fuel economy. better fuel economy is achieved by taking out the O2 sensor and putting a plug in its place. then connect the O2 sensor to the intake hose where the bac valve air hose goes. trust me, it works well.
it reads clean air all the time meaning that the mass air flow doesnt have to work as hard to provide accurate readings to the ecu. also, you can switch the primary injectors with the secondary injectors. this will not harm the motor in any way. in fact, it gives you more fuel around 3500-4000rpms when the secondaries open. its like having nitrous without the bottle.
The O2 sensor measures percentage of oxygen in the EXHAUST. Sticking it in the intake path would be telling the ECU that the engine is running insanely lean because INTAKE air is 21% oxygen! This could make the ECU dump MORE fuel in whenever it switches into closed loop (cruising) to try to achieve a 14.7:1 ratio. Your fuel economy will get WORSE, and that's if the sensor even works at those low temps. If it doesn't work, economy still gets worse due to no functional O2 feedback. Do you think the O2 sensor is actually used under load conditions? It's not. And that crap about allowing the AFM to not "work as hard" is ridiculous. The AFMs use a door or a cone w/ a spring. How can they "work hard"? Engine vacuum does all the work.
Then we have the idea that switching around four injectors of the EXACT SAME SIZE will have some effect on fuel. Do you really believe this? It won't do a damn thing to smooth out the lean spot before the 3800 RPM transition. And even if you do add more fuel there (by tuning), it's done to make the AFRs safer, which actually means slightly LESS power. More fuel does not equal instant nitrous. That's probably the dumbest thing I've read on here in a long time.
Lastly, rotating the CAS to advance timing 2-4* under every condition on a turbo engine is NOT a good idea. 4* of advance on the stock map, with stock fuel will blow the engine. You can get away with some advance on an NA, but a turbo will not react well. The stock turbo timing map is already on the aggressive side.
06-19-09, 10:36 PM
#11
06-19-09, 10:42 PM
#12
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I understand that, but after I stab it I should NOT rotate the CAS for fine adjustment then? That is all I am trying to get at.
Thank you all for taking your time and replying, it is helping me out tremendously.
Thank you all for taking your time and replying, it is helping me out tremendously.
06-20-09, 10:54 AM
#13
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Set the location of the CAS as per the instructions in the FSM. Stab it, place it in the middle, then start and warm up the engine. With it idling under 1000 RPM and the initial set coupler jumped, hook up a timing light to one of the leading wires and then adjust the position of the CAS until the LEADING MARK on the pully lines up with the pointer. Lock it down.
Any further timing adjustments get done in the ECU.
I am deleting the posts from blackrotary23 because they are wrong, don't make any sense, and are dangerous.
06-20-09, 06:52 PM
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NO, NO NO, NO, NO, NO and NO!
Set the location of the CAS as per the instructions in the FSM. Stab it, place it in the middle, then start and warm up the engine. With it idling under 1000 RPM and the initial set coupler jumped, hook up a timing light to one of the leading wires and then adjust the position of the CAS until the LEADING MARK on the pully lines up with the pointer. Lock it down.
Any further timing adjustments get done in the ECU.
I am deleting the posts from blackrotary23 because they are wrong, don't make any sense, and are dangerous.
Set the location of the CAS as per the instructions in the FSM. Stab it, place it in the middle, then start and warm up the engine. With it idling under 1000 RPM and the initial set coupler jumped, hook up a timing light to one of the leading wires and then adjust the position of the CAS until the LEADING MARK on the pully lines up with the pointer. Lock it down.
Any further timing adjustments get done in the ECU.
I am deleting the posts from blackrotary23 because they are wrong, don't make any sense, and are dangerous.
06-20-09, 07:34 PM
#17
From the factory, the pulley and the hub for the eshaft were meant to be matched together or the timing marks will not be correct. So don't use a pulley from one engine and a hub from the other. I ended up buying a new OEM pulley/hub combo from Ray Crowe at Malloy Mazda for about $190. For a high horsepower turbo build, I just needed the peace of mind.
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