Apex seals on New housings vs Used
10-16-07, 07:51 PM
#1
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Apex seals on New housings vs Used
So, I know that Atkins seals are good, and I've used them on past engines... all with used housings... So I bought them for my current build. I've been gathering parts here and there and I finally splurged on new housings. Should I ditch the Atkins seals for OEM ones? Will I notice a difference? Will my Atkins seals take me to 100,000+ miles again?
How will the Atkins seals wear into brand new housings vs OEM ones... Should I just bite the bullet and get OEM seals? My last engine(s) had Atkins seals and I loved them, I am just concerned about longevity with my very very expensive housings.
How will the Atkins seals wear into brand new housings vs OEM ones... Should I just bite the bullet and get OEM seals? My last engine(s) had Atkins seals and I loved them, I am just concerned about longevity with my very very expensive housings.
10-17-07, 03:13 AM
#2
Based on what I have seen, the atkins seals are good. I have used them up until this last year in all my builds. I never had any issues, and the few times I got one of my engines back later for teardown/extra porting/whatever, I didn't see any real issues. Granted, this was usually after 10k or less miles.
This past year or so I have been getting a great deal on oem 2mm apex seals so I went with those. Not because of any deficiency with the atkins, but I do think that mazda's 40 years of rotary engine r/d put their product ahead of a small aftermarket shop's, and if the price is the same, then the decision is clear. I do think that the mazda seals are probably slightly stronger for the modded turbo applications than the aftermarket seals. I also think that the aftermarket steel seals require a bit more lubrication than the stock hardened oem seals.
I have torn down 2 or 3 motors with atkins apex seals in them for 25-50k miles and saw no real issues. They do seem to wear the housings ever so slightly more than the stock seals. I would say 100k should be doable with them, or the stockers either way. But, that's an unreasonable goal in my mind.
No one here is going to put 100k miles on a 20 year old car. They will either get tired of it and do an engine swap or something more radical, they will get tired of it and sell it, it will get wrecked, or some other issue will cause the engine to tear up (busted coolant hose, bad fuel filter, etc.). Such a goal will never be realized. These cars are not really daily drivers anymore, and even if they were, most people drive 10-12k miles a year in such a car so you do the math as to how long it would take.
This past year or so I have been getting a great deal on oem 2mm apex seals so I went with those. Not because of any deficiency with the atkins, but I do think that mazda's 40 years of rotary engine r/d put their product ahead of a small aftermarket shop's, and if the price is the same, then the decision is clear. I do think that the mazda seals are probably slightly stronger for the modded turbo applications than the aftermarket seals. I also think that the aftermarket steel seals require a bit more lubrication than the stock hardened oem seals.
I have torn down 2 or 3 motors with atkins apex seals in them for 25-50k miles and saw no real issues. They do seem to wear the housings ever so slightly more than the stock seals. I would say 100k should be doable with them, or the stockers either way. But, that's an unreasonable goal in my mind.
No one here is going to put 100k miles on a 20 year old car. They will either get tired of it and do an engine swap or something more radical, they will get tired of it and sell it, it will get wrecked, or some other issue will cause the engine to tear up (busted coolant hose, bad fuel filter, etc.). Such a goal will never be realized. These cars are not really daily drivers anymore, and even if they were, most people drive 10-12k miles a year in such a car so you do the math as to how long it would take.
10-17-07, 10:22 AM
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I would say 100k should be doable with them, or the stockers either way. But, that's an unreasonable goal in my mind.
No one here is going to put 100k miles on a 20 year old car. They will either get tired of it and do an engine swap or something more radical, they will get tired of it and sell it, it will get wrecked, or some other issue will cause the engine to tear up (busted coolant hose, bad fuel filter, etc.). Such a goal will never be realized. These cars are not really daily drivers anymore, and even if they were, most people drive 10-12k miles a year in such a car so you do the math as to how long it would take.
No one here is going to put 100k miles on a 20 year old car. They will either get tired of it and do an engine swap or something more radical, they will get tired of it and sell it, it will get wrecked, or some other issue will cause the engine to tear up (busted coolant hose, bad fuel filter, etc.). Such a goal will never be realized. These cars are not really daily drivers anymore, and even if they were, most people drive 10-12k miles a year in such a car so you do the math as to how long it would take.
I drive a LOT, I had 40k on my last rebuild in 2 and a half years. You can bet that I'll have this car for another 5-6 with as much work as I'm putting into it right now. Thats atLEAST 80-90k... heh.The lubrication need is probably a good enough reason to go with OEM over Atkins on my new housings. Another justification would be the excessive wear you say MIGHT be occurring with the Atkins seals. If and when I do wreck the car, decide to upgrade, etc.. I'll still want those housings to be in tip-top shape. Just because the car might not last 100k, doesn't mean I don't want my 1000 dollars worth of housings to die before then.
Anyways.. thanks for the information Kevin. I think I'll probably switch to OEM seals if I can muster up the extra couple hundred bucks.
10-17-07, 11:48 AM
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if i had new housings theres no way id use anything other than OEM seals.
10-17-07, 07:01 PM
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Based on what I have seen, the atkins seals are good. I have used them up until this last year in all my builds. I never had any issues, and the few times I got one of my engines back later for teardown/extra porting/whatever, I didn't see any real issues. Granted, this was usually after 10k or less miles.
This past year or so I have been getting a great deal on oem 2mm apex seals so I went with those. Not because of any deficiency with the atkins, but I do think that mazda's 40 years of rotary engine r/d put their product ahead of a small aftermarket shop's, and if the price is the same, then the decision is clear. I do think that the mazda seals are probably slightly stronger for the modded turbo applications than the aftermarket seals. I also think that the aftermarket steel seals require a bit more lubrication than the stock hardened oem seals.
I have torn down 2 or 3 motors with atkins apex seals in them for 25-50k miles and saw no real issues. They do seem to wear the housings ever so slightly more than the stock seals. I would say 100k should be doable with them, or the stockers either way. But, that's an unreasonable goal in my mind.
No one here is going to put 100k miles on a 20 year old car. They will either get tired of it and do an engine swap or something more radical, they will get tired of it and sell it, it will get wrecked, or some other issue will cause the engine to tear up (busted coolant hose, bad fuel filter, etc.). Such a goal will never be realized. These cars are not really daily drivers anymore, and even if they were, most people drive 10-12k miles a year in such a car so you do the math as to how long it would take.
This past year or so I have been getting a great deal on oem 2mm apex seals so I went with those. Not because of any deficiency with the atkins, but I do think that mazda's 40 years of rotary engine r/d put their product ahead of a small aftermarket shop's, and if the price is the same, then the decision is clear. I do think that the mazda seals are probably slightly stronger for the modded turbo applications than the aftermarket seals. I also think that the aftermarket steel seals require a bit more lubrication than the stock hardened oem seals.
I have torn down 2 or 3 motors with atkins apex seals in them for 25-50k miles and saw no real issues. They do seem to wear the housings ever so slightly more than the stock seals. I would say 100k should be doable with them, or the stockers either way. But, that's an unreasonable goal in my mind.
No one here is going to put 100k miles on a 20 year old car. They will either get tired of it and do an engine swap or something more radical, they will get tired of it and sell it, it will get wrecked, or some other issue will cause the engine to tear up (busted coolant hose, bad fuel filter, etc.). Such a goal will never be realized. These cars are not really daily drivers anymore, and even if they were, most people drive 10-12k miles a year in such a car so you do the math as to how long it would take.
I would like to remind you of the little car they call the "rx-3" Those are still on the roads, along with a LOT of SA first gens! If I am going to do anything I can in order to keep rotaries on the roads longer. Even if that means buying shoddy ones, and making them roadworthy again before I resell em to someone worthy!
People are doing that with cars like the Datsun 510, and that's they only reason some cars are on the road at all! I do see your point, but I'm planning to actually DRIVE my car, not let it sit in a garage untill judgement day!
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10-17-07, 07:07 PM
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I would like to remind you of the little car they call the "rx-3" Those are still on the roads, along with a LOT of SA first gens! If I am going to do anything I can in order to keep rotaries on the roads longer. Even if that means buying shoddy ones, and making them roadworthy again before I resell em to someone worthy! People are doing that with cars like the Datsun 510, and that's they only reason some cars are on the road at all! I do see your point, but I'm planning to actually DRIVE my car, not let it sit in a garage untill judgement day!
People are doing that with cars like the Datsun 510, and that's they only reason some cars are on the road at all! I do see your point, but I'm planning to actually DRIVE my car, not let it sit in a garage untill judgement day!
/\ Yeah, Michaeli!
Used= Atkins FTW!
New= OEM FTW!
Used= Atkins FTW!
New= OEM FTW!
