Air, fuel, or elctrical problem... please help
06-06-07, 09:44 AM
#1
Air, fuel, or elctrical problem... please help
I apologize if this is a long read, but for all I know any of this info may pertain to my problem(s). The car is 87TII. Mods WERE cone filter intake, Motoria 3" turbo back exhaust, blitz bov,greddy tt, TB mod, removed twin scroll and ported stock turbo w/g to 26mm, FD alternator relocated w/ pineapple kit, all emissions & ac/ps removed, premixing. Car has run fine with this setup for over a year. Now, the problems...
I ran my car out of gas about a month ago rolling up to the gas pump (not good, will never do again). It had been run out of fuel once last year, and restarted with no problems. I oiled and gassed up, and on the drive home my car wouldn't idle. When running around 1000 RPM it starts hissing like it is sucking air, or at least trying to before it stalls. It would die unless I feather the gas at a stop. I found my vac line to the bov was cracked and one of the big vac nipples on my tmic had disappeared. I replaced both, and had no change in idle. I thought maybe I burnt out the stock fuel pump or clogged the filter, since fuel seemed to be the beginning of the problem. The oem fuel filter which i replaced under 700 miles ago was completely plugged. I installed a new fuel filter and a brand new walbro pump with a rewire. I fire the car up, no change. My fault this time. While drilling a hole in the firewall for the power wire to the new fuel pump, I drilled into the back of the power brake unit creating a new vac leak. I pulled the unit and JBWelded the hole (hole was as close to the edge of the unit as possible without actually missing it altogether). No change. I pulled off the TB an UIM. I replaced every single vac nipple and vac line after finding almost all of them cracked. Also replaced a leaky clutch master and water pump with new oem.
Unfortunately, at this time I also found liquid pooled between the engine block and LIM. It think it was oil, but looked more blueish like two stroke. It did not smell like fuel though. Is this oil blowby from the turbo that leaked out of the cracked nipples on TB/UIM? Also, the inside of my primary runners are silver, basically same color as the outside of the manifold. The inside of the secondaries however, are black. It looked oily, but didn't rub off on my finger. Seems more burnt or like a carbon. For the life of me I can't remember if they looked like this when I removed emissions, but I don't think so. I put everything back together, CAR STILL RUNS THE SAME.
The car would accelerate, decelerate, and cruise at any speed over 3000 RPM fine. It will not hold idle without stalling, and cruising under 3000 RPM the car seems to hiccup and hesitate. I decided to take her to my friends house to do a boost leak test. Half way there, I have smoke rolling through the passenger side carpet. I pull over and shut down right away TO FIND MY WIRING HARNESS COOKING!!! It appears near the water pump neck some of the old emission wires, and a few deleted sensors the previous owner poorly taped must have arced. I cut 7 wires going to nowhere down short and taped them. Gooey melted electrical tape aside, the rest of the harness looked OK. I swallowed hard and restarted the car. No fires. Running poorly as it had been. I whipped around and drove home. That was a few days ago. The only previous electrical issues were that my left blinker works when it wants, and sometimes when I first start the car i can hear the fuel pump relay clicking while feathering the gas peddle. This happens occasionally, but more often the relay does not click like that when I first start the car.
I attempted starting yesterday, and now the car barely runs. It won't even run under 3000 rpms now. Runs like the AFM is unplugged or something. My last ideas are maybe I plugged the primary fuel injectors (since the fuel filter got instantly plugged when the car ran out of gas). Maybe the TPS went bad. Maybe/ Probably still have a vac leak. Maybe the trottle cable slipped and I need to adjust my throttle plates. Maybe the engine is begging to go in the vert and use that wiring harness. Maybe I will get home today and the car will run perfect, which is about par for the course. Please help. Any ideas welcome at this point as long as it is a serious hypothesis.
I ran my car out of gas about a month ago rolling up to the gas pump (not good, will never do again). It had been run out of fuel once last year, and restarted with no problems. I oiled and gassed up, and on the drive home my car wouldn't idle. When running around 1000 RPM it starts hissing like it is sucking air, or at least trying to before it stalls. It would die unless I feather the gas at a stop. I found my vac line to the bov was cracked and one of the big vac nipples on my tmic had disappeared. I replaced both, and had no change in idle. I thought maybe I burnt out the stock fuel pump or clogged the filter, since fuel seemed to be the beginning of the problem. The oem fuel filter which i replaced under 700 miles ago was completely plugged. I installed a new fuel filter and a brand new walbro pump with a rewire. I fire the car up, no change. My fault this time. While drilling a hole in the firewall for the power wire to the new fuel pump, I drilled into the back of the power brake unit creating a new vac leak. I pulled the unit and JBWelded the hole (hole was as close to the edge of the unit as possible without actually missing it altogether). No change. I pulled off the TB an UIM. I replaced every single vac nipple and vac line after finding almost all of them cracked. Also replaced a leaky clutch master and water pump with new oem.
Unfortunately, at this time I also found liquid pooled between the engine block and LIM. It think it was oil, but looked more blueish like two stroke. It did not smell like fuel though. Is this oil blowby from the turbo that leaked out of the cracked nipples on TB/UIM? Also, the inside of my primary runners are silver, basically same color as the outside of the manifold. The inside of the secondaries however, are black. It looked oily, but didn't rub off on my finger. Seems more burnt or like a carbon. For the life of me I can't remember if they looked like this when I removed emissions, but I don't think so. I put everything back together, CAR STILL RUNS THE SAME.
The car would accelerate, decelerate, and cruise at any speed over 3000 RPM fine. It will not hold idle without stalling, and cruising under 3000 RPM the car seems to hiccup and hesitate. I decided to take her to my friends house to do a boost leak test. Half way there, I have smoke rolling through the passenger side carpet. I pull over and shut down right away TO FIND MY WIRING HARNESS COOKING!!! It appears near the water pump neck some of the old emission wires, and a few deleted sensors the previous owner poorly taped must have arced. I cut 7 wires going to nowhere down short and taped them. Gooey melted electrical tape aside, the rest of the harness looked OK. I swallowed hard and restarted the car. No fires. Running poorly as it had been. I whipped around and drove home. That was a few days ago. The only previous electrical issues were that my left blinker works when it wants, and sometimes when I first start the car i can hear the fuel pump relay clicking while feathering the gas peddle. This happens occasionally, but more often the relay does not click like that when I first start the car.
I attempted starting yesterday, and now the car barely runs. It won't even run under 3000 rpms now. Runs like the AFM is unplugged or something. My last ideas are maybe I plugged the primary fuel injectors (since the fuel filter got instantly plugged when the car ran out of gas). Maybe the TPS went bad. Maybe/ Probably still have a vac leak. Maybe the trottle cable slipped and I need to adjust my throttle plates. Maybe the engine is begging to go in the vert and use that wiring harness. Maybe I will get home today and the car will run perfect, which is about par for the course. Please help. Any ideas welcome at this point as long as it is a serious hypothesis.
06-06-07, 10:45 AM
#2
Seduced by the DARK SIDE
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Orange Park FL (near Jax)
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First pull the fuel pump & see if the pickup sock is dirty or if there is still more trash in the tank.
Read out the ECU check codes to see if it's unhappy about something.
Re-check for vac leaks, especially the TID.
Make sure the BOV is closing under vacuum.
The non-fuel puddle between the LIM & the block is no biggie.
-Bill
Read out the ECU check codes to see if it's unhappy about something.
Re-check for vac leaks, especially the TID.
Make sure the BOV is closing under vacuum.
The non-fuel puddle between the LIM & the block is no biggie.
-Bill
06-06-07, 10:59 AM
#3
First pull the fuel pump & see if the pickup sock is dirty or if there is still more trash in the tank.
Read out the ECU check codes to see if it's unhappy about something.
Re-check for vac leaks, especially the TID.
Make sure the BOV is closing under vacuum.
The non-fuel puddle between the LIM & the block is no biggie.
-Bill
Read out the ECU check codes to see if it's unhappy about something.
Re-check for vac leaks, especially the TID.
Make sure the BOV is closing under vacuum.
The non-fuel puddle between the LIM & the block is no biggie.
-Bill
Also, compression is about 103 front 101 rear
06-06-07, 12:16 PM
#5
Before you start replacing parts, do some more diagnosis...
Check the fuel injector solenoid resistor to make sure all injectors (especially the primaries...see above) are getting power. Check fuel pressure at the rail just to be sure it's within spec.
Remember also that running out of fuel could be completely unrelated, since you seem to be having these problems at lower RPM's. I've been thrown off track before by things happening at the same time. Also, check your Air Flow meter and TPS and wiring.
Check the fuel injector solenoid resistor to make sure all injectors (especially the primaries...see above) are getting power. Check fuel pressure at the rail just to be sure it's within spec.
Remember also that running out of fuel could be completely unrelated, since you seem to be having these problems at lower RPM's. I've been thrown off track before by things happening at the same time. Also, check your Air Flow meter and TPS and wiring.
06-06-07, 02:55 PM
#6
Seduced by the DARK SIDE
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Most of the "running out of fuel" issues tend to be high rev related.
Stalling & poor idle issues keep saying you probably have more vac leaks.
Time to try the spray carb cleaner test.
Stalling & poor idle issues keep saying you probably have more vac leaks.
Time to try the spray carb cleaner test.
06-11-07, 09:44 AM
#7
Thanks to all who helped. I traced the problem back to my TID afterall. It was split in the middle between the ribbed section, which I somehow overlooked earlier. I replaced it with a 1G mitsubishi eclipse TID and now I have a solid idle at 850 rpms. I will post a pic soon. It fit pretty good, and they are a dime a dozen from the local DSM guys. Mine was free from my buddy 
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