AE Turbo

It's really weird. The engine is a rebuild with about 18k on it. It has shown no signs of problems and had all of it's fluids with no leaks. My brother and I went to the range and the car was driving perfectly. After we were done about 30 minutes later, we returned to the car. When I turned it on, it turned over a few times then stopped. I had it towed to my mom's house since it was nearby. I took off all the accessories to check if the were the cause, but they all turned normally. I then removed the starter to check if it was jammed but it was fine. I've isolated the problem; the engine is seized. The flywheel and the e-shaft pulley will not turn. I've been talking to Suparslinc since he has dealt with some seized engines and will do the following:

1. Remove Spark Plugs
2. Let ATF soak through spark plug holes
3. Try to unlock motor by using a pry bar and turning flywheel opposite of normal rotation
4. Hope for the best

Does anyone else have any suggestons? I'm hanging on the hope that it may be loose carbon build up (not unheard of) that has jammed between the rotor and housing and not the seals going out. I know some (most ) of you have had engine seals go bad on you. What happened when your engine went bad? Does it sound anything like what happend to me?

How about J-Specs or used engines? I know fcturbo2 got one with bad housings and that makes me apprehensive to purchasing one. I think I'd rather just save the money to have Mazdatrix make me a new engine that's streetported.

*personal note:
I thought hard about selling the car after this happened. My first AE had an engine fire and now this? Maybe I wasn't meant to have a 7. Staring at the car, I ended up deciding that I will keep it. It's too damn nice. I thought to myself,"I could use $5000 and just get a different car. But if I used $5000 towards this car, I could get a NEW streetported engine and with my current mods, not many $5000 cars would beat that."

If it needs to be rebuilt, it will be a long time until I can save enough money. Even if the engine is still okay, I have decided not to put any more money towards the FC until I have a second car. The car I am now concentrating on buying is a Nissan 240SX fastback. It will be the daily driver car and I will not modify it except for the C-Westin body kit (without that wing) and maybe the ol' intake and exhaust.

Thanks for any suggestions!

Phungus

My motor seized up last month and suparslinc (the man) helped me out too. Try a search for seized motor and I'm sure my post'll pop up. The tire iron that came with my car ('91) has a slightly curved chisel tip at one end and was perfect for turning the flywheel. But after I got my motor unseized it didn't feel the same-harder to start, easier to stall, etc. I did a compression check and I discovered a lower reading on my front rotor aprt from the fact that my compression was already low. All my seals were intact though. I can't afford a new motor or even new tires so bye bye 7. Our paths will cross again...

Brian P

Before you give up hope on the engine could it be something in the trans? Does the clutch work? Could be something is jammed? There are some cover plates around the engine, where it meets with the trans. Could it be something got inside?

What you might consider rather than using a prybar is to put the car in reverse and push it forward. I think that would be easier than the prybar method.

fcturbo2

Damn MIKE!..You just ruined my week dude!..I feel so bad that it happened to your car. This is my worst nightmare. Remember i was telling you that i will never want to hear you blow your motor. Now i hear this and it feels like i lost an arm or something.

I want you to keep the car because dude!..Your a baptist rotorhead !.. You love your 7 so much and i dont want you to give up on it. There is nothing like an AE..

Did you race your car over the weekend?..I think you told me that you were going to drag it saturday and austoX it sunday. I hope you didnt blow a seal or something. I was even saying to myself why you havent upgraded your fuel with those mod that you have.

One adveice to you my friend. Dont sell the car!!!...you will regret it man!...

PS: what a coinccident!..i just saw a 89GXL 4sale and for 400 bucks. The lady is moving out of state but when i called her she said that she had sold it!..That would have been a nice daily driver for you... Lets do this!.. we go look for a JSPEC motor and we make sure to inspect it real good and we can slap it in your AE. What do you think????

stinkfist

That is wierd that it would lock up with that low mileage. We just got my buddys engine unlocked the other day. He poored a lot of atf in the plug holes and the intake. He let it sit for a day. the next day we put the car in 5th gear and rocked it back and forth for about 5 minutes and the engine finally turned. after about 10 minutes of cranking with a deep cycle battery and the FI fuse pulled it fired up and the neighborhood disapeered in a cloud of smoke.

Good luck,

Mike

AE Turbo

Hey Phungus and Stinkfist; (LoL )

What actually caused those engines to lock up?

Shouldn't I be trying to move the flywheel opposite of normal rotation? If not, then I'm going to try to put it gear and move it like you guys suggest.

Phungus

My motor seized when my oil cooler hose broke and all my oil spilled out.

RarestRX

Yo,


10 AE, check this:

Carbon lock is just what the name implies. A piece of combustion chamber deposit, which is made primarily of carbon, has dislodged from the face of the rotor and wedged in between the rotor apex and the rotor housing, preventing forward rotation.

If the engine has carbon locked, the only direction to turn the engine is in reverse. In-car this should be done only one of two ways. If your bellhousing has a hole aligned with the ring gear teeth, you can pry the flywheel through the hole. Otherwise you must remove the starter to use the flywheel ring gear teeth to force the engine to turn in the reverse direction of normal. Mazda makes a special tool for this purpose, part number 49 FA42 065 for manual transmission engines. Any other in-car method will just compound the problem, further wedging the carbon between the apex and the housing.

Trying to turn the stuck engine with the eccentric shaft bolt will only do one of two things: badly overtighten the bolt, preventing its later removal when the engine needs to be disassembled; or, loosen it, again accomplishing nothing regarding the s tuck engine. Trying to turn the stuck engine by pushing or pulling the car rarely works either. You don't have any control if you have to force it that way. Once the engine is broken loose, you don't want to turn it very far without determining if it will again stick going that direction. Once there is some freedom, usually the engine has to be worked back & forth until the carbon breaks into small enough pieces to let the engine turn all the way around freely. Towing or pushing the car in either direction doesn't allow you the use of any finesse.

I got this off of: http://mrmazda.members.atlantic.net/....html#EXTLEAKC

It's Felix's Rotary FAQ.

It looks like you HAVE to turn it in reverse if it's carbon locked. I hope this helps and best of luck!!

KS
1989 GTUs "All Rotor, All the Time."

AE Turbo

Great info rarest!

Suparslinc

My secret is out!
Thats where I got 99% of my info on unlocking a rotary.
I've been looking for that link too I was going to post it.
I think being an expert on locked up engines is kind of a "dubious honor" but thanks anyways

Thing is AE, with only 20k, I don't see how you could have carbon lock already. That usually happens on high mileage engines. Another possibility is a shattered clutch that has pieces lodged in the bellhousing, preventing the flywheel and engine from turning.
Keep at it you'll get it loose.

AE Turbo

Well I won't be able to try anything until this weekend. As far as mileage, the previous owner told me that the engine was rebuilt. I only have a reciept for a used engine and rebuilt turbo but I don't have any record of the engine rebuild. It's possible that the engine was not rebuilt, but just replaced.

I'll know what's up after the weekend.

So what causes the engine to lock besides carbon? Maybe a seal came out and lodged between the rotor and housing? Why would it come out when the engine was off?

Kurgan

Ok, if you are thinking about rebuilding the engine if it is toast, STOP RIGHT NOW! I was going to get it rebuilt, but I decided to try and unstick the engine.

We did the "put it in 5th and push the car along" trick. It didn't work. The only thing that it did was eventually bend one of the rotors, scar a housing and make my core practically worthless.

I wish you better luck. If you are going to get it rebuilt, just remember that whatever you do between now and then may be the difference between $1500 and $2500... just food for thought.

AE Turbo

Damn, I was loooking at the reciept for the engine that was replaced. It doesn't sound too bad:

__________________


Dowa International
Rancho Dominguez, CA

March 20, 1998

1 Mazda 13B-Turbo $650
Used Engine

1 Install Charge $320
Labor

1 New Parts $130
Parts
Int. Exh. Gaskets/Seals/4 Spark Plugs/Oil/
Oil Filter/Hoses/Sensors/Water Pump/
Anti-Freeze/Radiator Rod out.

TOTAL DUE $1100

<ENGINE HAS A 12Mo/12,000 MILE WARRANTY>

_________________

Does that sound like a good price? That was less than what he paid for the turbo rebuild ($1165). I'm probably gonna go back to the same place.

22,000 since the rebuild. Maybe the fact that the car had little use before I had it contributed to the problem:

Between 3/20/98 and 1/6/01 (one year, 9 months) : +7000 miles

between 1/6/01 and 9/15/01 (9 months) : +15000 miles

Geez, I never realized how much I've been driving this car! Before I rebuild, I really gotta get a second car...

RarestRX

Yo,



I'd get that Mazda tool Felix was talkin' about and turn the engine backwards and do the ATF thing. Hopefully you can unstick it and chop up the carbon chunk...


KS

Suparslinc

Good luck finding one. I called they dealer and they thought I was nuts.
prybar works just as well.

relvinnian

This does not make sense. True a car with less miles will have less time to accumulate carbon buildup, and the seals/internal components will generally be in better condition to prevent the FORMING of carbon deposits. But, basing whether carbon lock could occur on mileage is not correct! A higher mileage car that is properly maintained AND driven the way it's supposed will prevent the forming of carbon deposits! On the other hand a car that is not driven much, or has sat for periods of time, combined with possible fuel problems (running rich) will lead to carbon lock or a blown engine MUCH sooner in an engine's life! My TII came with 71k original miles, and that was one of my main concerns! I did the ATF trick and the car seems alot more free-revving and generally more stable. Never discount the fact that a lower mileage engine can buildup carbon just as easily as a higher mileage engine.

-Brian

supergoat

I agree, even though it seems he drove it hard for 9 months, prior to that only 7000 miles were put on it in 1 year and 9 months. That is only about 333 miles per month...roughly just a tank of gas. If it was driven so little I can imagine that it was not driven very hard either. So I would not be suprised by a good bit of carbon build up.

AE Turbo

I called 3 Mazda dealers around here. Two could order it, one thought I was nuts. It's around $80 and would take 2-6 weeks to recieve it. I'll just go with a prybar.

The engine is running perfectly, I turn it off, come back 30 minutes later, and no more? I hope it's just carbon lock. I'll know by the weekend. Either way, I'm still getting a 240SX and signing up for AAA.