87 GXL cranks but doesnt start
#1
87 GXL cranks but doesnt start
Hey everyone,
I'm on the verge of getting my GXL running again. For some context, this car had an engine fire, so it was cleaned up and a donor engine from an SE was swapped in. While it was out, 2 apex seals, 1 on each rotor, were verified as stuck into the rotor. I'm hoping it's just a matter of carbon locking it on, rather than a pinched rotor slot, but directly spraying the seals with a solvent hasnt freed them over several weeks. The slots did not look damaged from what I saw though. Anyways, I'm trying to get it to run as is so I can try seafoaming or steam cleaning the engine to free the seals. I've sorted out a bunch of issues so that it cranks, sparks, gets fuel/air, etc. but it's still not quite going. I've included a video of it trying to start on the remaining good faces. I suspect it doesnt have enough compression from the way it almost but doesnt quite run. This is probably mostly from the stuck seals, but admittedly, I haven't lubricated the insides since trying to soak it in MMO and then spraying the seals down with seafoam. Later today, I'm planning on putting 20W50 in the chambers and having another crack at it. Is there anything else I should try?
I'm on the verge of getting my GXL running again. For some context, this car had an engine fire, so it was cleaned up and a donor engine from an SE was swapped in. While it was out, 2 apex seals, 1 on each rotor, were verified as stuck into the rotor. I'm hoping it's just a matter of carbon locking it on, rather than a pinched rotor slot, but directly spraying the seals with a solvent hasnt freed them over several weeks. The slots did not look damaged from what I saw though. Anyways, I'm trying to get it to run as is so I can try seafoaming or steam cleaning the engine to free the seals. I've sorted out a bunch of issues so that it cranks, sparks, gets fuel/air, etc. but it's still not quite going. I've included a video of it trying to start on the remaining good faces. I suspect it doesnt have enough compression from the way it almost but doesnt quite run. This is probably mostly from the stuck seals, but admittedly, I haven't lubricated the insides since trying to soak it in MMO and then spraying the seals down with seafoam. Later today, I'm planning on putting 20W50 in the chambers and having another crack at it. Is there anything else I should try?
#2
i don't quite remember the specific progression of things I did to get it working, but the major milestones I do remember include lubing the combustion chambers, adjusting TPS and the throttle cable, capping a couple of missed vacuum nipples, "deflooding" it (which might have just distributed the oil better rather than deflooded it), got it to start and stay alive entirely on the starter fluid, then remembered the MAF fuel pump switch and reconnected the air intake tube, so now it starts up consistently. It runs like complete crap though, shaking heavily at idle that sort of clears up over ~2000RPM, audibly "missing" (just the stuck seals?) at low RPM, but it doesn't want to go over ~3500RPM ish under load. I did some quick searching and this might point to questionable grounds? But I haven't actually tried revving it over that in neutral. It also has a tendency to die when you come to a stop, and the power steering isn't being compensated by the idle.
So, I'm thinking, first things first is to try seafoam/water injection treatment, double check grounds (I remember having to transfer over a section of wiring from a different car for the oil pressure gauge, which still doesn't work, but I might have done something weird with the grounding from that), go over all the speed-dependent engine functions (6PI, secondary injectors), double check power steering wiring, quadruple check idle control valves (I know one of them is responsible for bumping idle when the power steering is running), check power steering fluid levels, check fuel filter (it's new, but the lines might have been packed with crap), try running injector cleaner... and maybe even see if any of the cats are clogged? I remember having to punch out one of the precats because it was horrendous, but I didn't check the other precat or main. Any other ideas?
Edit: I'll try to get video of its behavior later. It's difficult getting it in and out of the garage and I need a willing victim to hold the camera. I was overly generous with the seafoam spray on the stuck seals while putting the engine together, so it's a ridiculous smoke show. I took it around the block and the neighbor prius owner stopped me to shout me down that I was polluting the earth and that I needed to think about her kids.
So, I'm thinking, first things first is to try seafoam/water injection treatment, double check grounds (I remember having to transfer over a section of wiring from a different car for the oil pressure gauge, which still doesn't work, but I might have done something weird with the grounding from that), go over all the speed-dependent engine functions (6PI, secondary injectors), double check power steering wiring, quadruple check idle control valves (I know one of them is responsible for bumping idle when the power steering is running), check power steering fluid levels, check fuel filter (it's new, but the lines might have been packed with crap), try running injector cleaner... and maybe even see if any of the cats are clogged? I remember having to punch out one of the precats because it was horrendous, but I didn't check the other precat or main. Any other ideas?
Edit: I'll try to get video of its behavior later. It's difficult getting it in and out of the garage and I need a willing victim to hold the camera. I was overly generous with the seafoam spray on the stuck seals while putting the engine together, so it's a ridiculous smoke show. I took it around the block and the neighbor prius owner stopped me to shout me down that I was polluting the earth and that I needed to think about her kids.
Last edited by pzr2; 10-15-18 at 03:15 PM. Reason: Added text
#3
I tried to run seafoam through it, but things went south. Car may be flooded or something. It went from consistently starting and (very shakily) idling on it's own to starting but dying if throttle wasn't applied to not starting and not sounding like it's even trying to start. I tried the lazy deflood by disconnecting the fuel pump and cranking for a bit, but I dont think I did it long enough and I didnt bother taking out the plugs. I'll have to poke at it more. Some searching I did indicated that me disconnecting the MAP sensor vacuum line as a way to feed in the seafoam was probably a terrible idea. BACV clean and adjust is on the list already, but I'm thinking it'll help if I prioritize it, to be certain.
Last edited by pzr2; 10-18-18 at 03:41 AM.
#5
I dont have anyone available who could help me pull start it. As mentioned, I did take the plugs out and cranked it for 20 seconds. Nothing came out. I put a little motor oil in and that sounded stronger, but still no attempt to start. It had some reaction to the starter fluid again, but I was hoping not to need it, and ran out. I'm going to the shops to get more. Utterly baffled right now.
#6
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I tried to run seafoam through it, but things went south. Car may be flooded or something. It went from consistently starting and (very shakily) idling on it's own to starting but dying of throttle wasnt applied to not starting and not soundly like it's even trying to start. I tried the lazy deflood by disconnecting the fuel pump and cranking for a bit, but I dont think I did it long enough and I didnt bother taking out the plugs. I'll have to poke at it more. Some searching I did indicated that me disconnecting the MAP sensor vacuum line as a way to feed in the seafoam was probably a terrible idea. BACV clean and adjust is on the list already, but I'm thinking it'll help if I prioritize it, to be certain.
Get used to pulling them because you're probably going to have to do it several times. The plugs can give you a good idea of what's going on.
when you disconnected the map sensor and dumped seafoam, you probably flooded the **** out of your engine.
#7
I think you misinterpreted what I said. Earlier I said I reckoned it was flooded and planned on performing the deflooding procedure. The last post of mine was after I did it properly with the plugs pulled and the EGI fuses out. While the plugs were out, I saw some loose carbon. Most of it came off with a light rub with a shop towel. One of the plugs needed a little carb cleaner. When I'm back, I'll try firing it up again, and if that fails, I'll put new plugs in it. As for now, they seem fine. Deflooding didn't seem to do anything, since it's behaving exactly as it did before trying the procedure. I've included a partial video I took to show my friend that one of the seals sounds like it unstuck finally, if you really care that much.
Last edited by pzr2; 10-18-18 at 12:30 AM.
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#9
Battery is good and I keep it charged constantly with a smart charger. I applied starter fluid and it kept dying or stopped trying to start every time I tried to connect the intake hose, so I checked the airbox. Stupid maf door stuck shut. She starts again now, but the air pump pulley bolts chose now to back out and chuck the belt. I think one of them stripped on it's way out so I need to retap it and find new bolts.
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