86 RX7 TII conversion wont start.
09-28-18, 04:51 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
86 RX7 TII conversion wont start.
Hello everyone,
I have tried to search for answers but I have not found anything that helped.
I have a 86 n/a that i recently put a 87 tII motor in. converted the NA harness to work with the N332 ecu(cut PIN 1R, 2K, 3D) TII AFM, TII Boost sensor N370. Emissions removed, still have the BAC. I have spark, and fuel but i cant get it to stay on. so here is what happens. I time the motor (yellow mark on crank, notches on CAS), go to start it and it will start for like 2 seconds and get to like 3k rpm and just die. it doesn't matter if i hit the gas. Then if i try to start it again it will crank and sound like it wants to start but it just wont. If i take the CAS out and spin it by hand it sparks and burns what ever fuel is in the the motor and it does about a full rotation. then when i re time it it will do the exact same thing. im stuck in a constant loop right now. Im sure im missing info that will help you guys understand so just let me know what else you guys need. Thanks
I have tried to search for answers but I have not found anything that helped.
I have a 86 n/a that i recently put a 87 tII motor in. converted the NA harness to work with the N332 ecu(cut PIN 1R, 2K, 3D) TII AFM, TII Boost sensor N370. Emissions removed, still have the BAC. I have spark, and fuel but i cant get it to stay on. so here is what happens. I time the motor (yellow mark on crank, notches on CAS), go to start it and it will start for like 2 seconds and get to like 3k rpm and just die. it doesn't matter if i hit the gas. Then if i try to start it again it will crank and sound like it wants to start but it just wont. If i take the CAS out and spin it by hand it sparks and burns what ever fuel is in the the motor and it does about a full rotation. then when i re time it it will do the exact same thing. im stuck in a constant loop right now. Im sure im missing info that will help you guys understand so just let me know what else you guys need. Thanks
Last edited by FeedBack159; 09-28-18 at 04:53 PM.
09-30-18, 10:53 AM
#2
Rotary Enthusiast
Hard to say what's wrong with your setup. Why didn't you use the harness designed for the TII engine?
FYI -- Atkins Rotary still sells these harnesses (https://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/8...2-18-051K.html)
FYI -- Atkins Rotary still sells these harnesses (https://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/8...2-18-051K.html)
09-30-18, 05:36 PM
#4
Converting the NA harness is indeed easier than switching over to a TII harness. Some pins don't match and others don't exist on the other harness.
My setup in terms of wiring is exactly the same as yours.
Have you checked if the flap in the AFM moves freely?
It shouldn't be able to enrich to the point where the car floods, but turn the idle mixture screw all the way to lean and see what happens.
Adjust TPS/BAC.
Gonna be a fun one to diagnose, lol
My setup in terms of wiring is exactly the same as yours.
Have you checked if the flap in the AFM moves freely?
It shouldn't be able to enrich to the point where the car floods, but turn the idle mixture screw all the way to lean and see what happens.
Adjust TPS/BAC.
Gonna be a fun one to diagnose, lol
09-30-18, 07:11 PM
#5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Converting the NA harness is indeed easier than switching over to a TII harness. Some pins don't match and others don't exist on the other harness.
My setup in terms of wiring is exactly the same as yours.
Have you checked if the flap in the AFM moves freely?
It shouldn't be able to enrich to the point where the car floods, but turn the idle mixture screw all the way to lean and see what happens.
Adjust TPS/BAC.
Gonna be a fun one to diagnose, lol
My setup in terms of wiring is exactly the same as yours.
Have you checked if the flap in the AFM moves freely?
It shouldn't be able to enrich to the point where the car floods, but turn the idle mixture screw all the way to lean and see what happens.
Adjust TPS/BAC.
Gonna be a fun one to diagnose, lol
09-30-18, 07:14 PM
#7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Hello everyone,
I have tried to search for answers but I have not found anything that helped.
I have a 86 n/a that i recently put a 87 tII motor in. converted the NA harness to work with the N332 ecu(cut PIN 1R, 2K, 3D) TII AFM, TII Boost sensor N370. Emissions removed, still have the BAC. I have spark, and fuel but i cant get it to stay on. so here is what happens. I time the motor (yellow mark on crank, notches on CAS), go to start it and it will start for like 2 seconds and get to like 3k rpm and just die. it doesn't matter if i hit the gas. Then if i try to start it again it will crank and sound like it wants to start but it just wont. If i take the CAS out and spin it by hand it sparks and burns what ever fuel is in the the motor and it does about a full rotation. then when i re time it it will do the exact same thing. im stuck in a constant loop right now. Im sure im missing info that will help you guys understand so just let me know what else you guys need. Thanks
I have tried to search for answers but I have not found anything that helped.
I have a 86 n/a that i recently put a 87 tII motor in. converted the NA harness to work with the N332 ecu(cut PIN 1R, 2K, 3D) TII AFM, TII Boost sensor N370. Emissions removed, still have the BAC. I have spark, and fuel but i cant get it to stay on. so here is what happens. I time the motor (yellow mark on crank, notches on CAS), go to start it and it will start for like 2 seconds and get to like 3k rpm and just die. it doesn't matter if i hit the gas. Then if i try to start it again it will crank and sound like it wants to start but it just wont. If i take the CAS out and spin it by hand it sparks and burns what ever fuel is in the the motor and it does about a full rotation. then when i re time it it will do the exact same thing. im stuck in a constant loop right now. Im sure im missing info that will help you guys understand so just let me know what else you guys need. Thanks
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09-30-18, 10:52 PM
#9
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Ill Check them out tomorrow. thanks. do you also think maybe i could have put the injector connector on the wrong injector? i cant seem to find a write up on which connector goes where but as far as i could tell they can only go one way because of the length of the wire.
09-30-18, 11:07 PM
#10
The lengths of the wiring should be a common sense thing in regards to what goes where but you never know I guess.
Light green + Black/yellow is front primary
Light green/black + Black/Yellow is rear primary
Light green/white + Black/yellow is front secondary
Light green/red + Black/yellow is rear primary
Keep in mind the wiring may have changed colours over time.
Light green + Black/yellow is front primary
Light green/black + Black/Yellow is rear primary
Light green/white + Black/yellow is front secondary
Light green/red + Black/yellow is rear primary
Keep in mind the wiring may have changed colours over time.
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ayeenomi (05-22-19)
09-30-18, 11:17 PM
#11
Junior Member
Thread Starter
The lengths of the wiring should be a common sense thing in regards to what goes where but you never know I guess.
Light green + Black/yellow is front primary
Light green/black + Black/Yellow is rear primary
Light green/white + Black/yellow is front secondary
Light green/red + Black/yellow is rear primary
Keep in mind the wiring may have changed colours over time.
Light green + Black/yellow is front primary
Light green/black + Black/Yellow is rear primary
Light green/white + Black/yellow is front secondary
Light green/red + Black/yellow is rear primary
Keep in mind the wiring may have changed colours over time.
10-01-18, 01:08 AM
#12
The S4 tii ECU like all the S5 cars has a fuel pump resistor relay. Your chassis being a S4 N/A never had that, did you add one or are you bypassing it(switched relayed battery voltage to pump)? It seems like the car is only starting on whatever fuel is in the system from the pump priming.
Also your car being an '86 model would have the low ohm injectors along with the resistor box, '87(the engine your using) is a mid model year change where it could have either low or high ohm injectors. You should have around 11-14ohm of resistance per injector, that either the injector on its own, or a low ohn injector + the resistance of the injector box. If you have the high ohm injectors and still have the resistor box from your '86 N/A harness you need to bypass it, if you have low ohm Tii injectors in it ignore that part.
Also your car being an '86 model would have the low ohm injectors along with the resistor box, '87(the engine your using) is a mid model year change where it could have either low or high ohm injectors. You should have around 11-14ohm of resistance per injector, that either the injector on its own, or a low ohn injector + the resistance of the injector box. If you have the high ohm injectors and still have the resistor box from your '86 N/A harness you need to bypass it, if you have low ohm Tii injectors in it ignore that part.
Last edited by SpikeDerailed; 10-01-18 at 01:13 AM.
10-01-18, 05:22 AM
#13
^^^That's an excellent theory. It would make a lot of sense that the injectors would not work properly or at all if the resistor box was still being used.
I would have just swapped in an entire TII harness and ecu. For me this would have been much easier as all of the wiring would have matched and be plug and play. No de-pinning and or shortening or extending any wiring. It takes maybe an hour to pull the dash..you could have just laid the entire TII harness in half a day and have no guess work in diagnosing issues. That's just me though.
I would have just swapped in an entire TII harness and ecu. For me this would have been much easier as all of the wiring would have matched and be plug and play. No de-pinning and or shortening or extending any wiring. It takes maybe an hour to pull the dash..you could have just laid the entire TII harness in half a day and have no guess work in diagnosing issues. That's just me though.
10-01-18, 12:36 PM
#14
Junior Member
Thread Starter
The S4 tii ECU like all the S5 cars has a fuel pump resistor relay. Your chassis being a S4 N/A never had that, did you add one or are you bypassing it(switched relayed battery voltage to pump)? It seems like the car is only starting on whatever fuel is in the system from the pump priming.
Also your car being an '86 model would have the low ohm injectors along with the resistor box, '87(the engine your using) is a mid model year change where it could have either low or high ohm injectors. You should have around 11-14ohm of resistance per injector, that either the injector on its own, or a low ohn injector + the resistance of the injector box. If you have the high ohm injectors and still have the resistor box from your '86 N/A harness you need to bypass it, if you have low ohm Tii injectors in it ignore that part.
Also your car being an '86 model would have the low ohm injectors along with the resistor box, '87(the engine your using) is a mid model year change where it could have either low or high ohm injectors. You should have around 11-14ohm of resistance per injector, that either the injector on its own, or a low ohn injector + the resistance of the injector box. If you have the high ohm injectors and still have the resistor box from your '86 N/A harness you need to bypass it, if you have low ohm Tii injectors in it ignore that part.
10-01-18, 04:02 PM
#15
Junior Member
Thread Starter
RotaryRocket88 said in his s4 TII swap guide that
"Pin 3D is for the fuel pump resistor/relay on turbos, but is unused on manual NAs. However, on Automatic NAs, it runs to the inhibitor switch. But lets face it, no ones converting to turbo and using an AT transmission
. So the wire at this pin can really be ignored in most cases."
so i dont think it would be a resistor/relay problem. but i also cut that wire so maybe ill try re attaching it. if that also does not work ill try to just wire the pump to a 12v and see it i can get it to run.
"Pin 3D is for the fuel pump resistor/relay on turbos, but is unused on manual NAs. However, on Automatic NAs, it runs to the inhibitor switch. But lets face it, no ones converting to turbo and using an AT transmission
. So the wire at this pin can really be ignored in most cases."so i dont think it would be a resistor/relay problem. but i also cut that wire so maybe ill try re attaching it. if that also does not work ill try to just wire the pump to a 12v and see it i can get it to run.
10-02-18, 10:36 AM
#19
Junior Member
Thread Starter
10-02-18, 11:57 AM
#21
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Thanks to all that have posted. I will try these this Wednesday or Thursday when I have the time and let you know if anything comes of it. Unfortunately my boost sensor wont be in for a while so I'm at least hoping to get it started with this one. I will see how it goes.
10-03-18, 07:12 PM
#22
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Hey everyone
so i switched my primary injectors with my secondary injectors and made sure all the wiring looked good. had to strip them pretty far back to actually see some wire colors. After i did that i re timed it and attempted to start it. it turned on and ran for about 35 seconds. longest i ever got it to stay on. after it died to tried to crank it over again and it wouldn't start but it sounded like it wanted to more then before i switched injectors. i did not play with the idle resister switch or the BAC because it started raining. do you think my next step is throwing a timing light on it? do i have a vac leak? I cant really do the brake cleaner or whatever check because i cant keep it running long enough and Iv been over the motor so many times and cant see any loose wires.
so i switched my primary injectors with my secondary injectors and made sure all the wiring looked good. had to strip them pretty far back to actually see some wire colors. After i did that i re timed it and attempted to start it. it turned on and ran for about 35 seconds. longest i ever got it to stay on. after it died to tried to crank it over again and it wouldn't start but it sounded like it wanted to more then before i switched injectors. i did not play with the idle resister switch or the BAC because it started raining. do you think my next step is throwing a timing light on it? do i have a vac leak? I cant really do the brake cleaner or whatever check because i cant keep it running long enough and Iv been over the motor so many times and cant see any loose wires.
10-03-18, 08:26 PM
#23
Unplug the boost sensor or temporarily install the S4 NA one. See if it helps.
DO NOT DRIVE THE CAR WITHOUT THE N318 SENSOR.
I'd figure out the resistor situation for the injectors as well.
Note: If your NA injectors are low impedance and your TII injectors are low impedance, there's no changes to be made.
When I did my swap, my NA injectors were low impedance and my TII injectors were high impedance, so I had to delete the resistor pack.
DO NOT DRIVE THE CAR WITHOUT THE N318 SENSOR.
I'd figure out the resistor situation for the injectors as well.
Note: If your NA injectors are low impedance and your TII injectors are low impedance, there's no changes to be made.
When I did my swap, my NA injectors were low impedance and my TII injectors were high impedance, so I had to delete the resistor pack.
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FeedBack159 (10-03-18)
10-03-18, 09:45 PM
#25
Full Member
I've tried 2 remanufactured AFM's from A1 cardone before and both were bad. I've also heard from others that the remans for s4 TII's have been bad and I'm currently using the 30+ year old one. If you have the original AFM or know someone that has one switch them out and try.