6 port auxiliary actuators
07-11-10, 04:55 PM
#1
6 port auxiliary actuators
I have a 88 S4 6 port motor. The one with the 2 auxiliary port that open around 4000 - 5000 rpms by running off the back pressure of the exhuast.
I'm having problems with them not wanting to open up once I revv up the car. ( they open smoothly when I open them by hand).
I have bought a a racing beat road race dual outlet header not knowing that it was meant for a s5 13b. ( No back pressure pick up tube )
So I bought the back pressure pick up tube and had it welded in at the exact same place as the acual 86-88 road race dual outlet header.
( I also have the ac & av blocking plate in place on the lower intake manifold )
I also picked up the Racing beat dual road racing mufflers and took it down to local shop and had them weld in the center section of the exhaust so that I will have a true dual exhuast from engine all the way to the mufflers. ( I didn't use the presilencers and the y pipe that racing beat charges a arm and leg for)
So with all that being said the problem I'm having is that the port actuator arnt opening like they should!!! What a huge bummer!
I know that it doesn't take much to ( 1.2 psi to start and 2.1 at fully open).
I notice that when I pulled the rubber vacumm hose from the header pick up tube and revved the car up that there was exhaust air pushing its way out instead of the air being sucked out to open the auxiliary actuator.
Now I have welded in the pick up tube in the exact same spot as racing beat does on the 86 - 88 six port dual outlet road race header.
*****If anyone that has some good ideas on how to get these ports to open properly with the exhaust set up that I'm running*****
I was maybe thinking of running 2 pick up tubes off of each exhuast pipe and teeing them onto one and having it Run to the actuator tube. I know I doesn't take to much to operate these acuators.
Someone give me some good pointers please.
I'm having problems with them not wanting to open up once I revv up the car. ( they open smoothly when I open them by hand).
I have bought a a racing beat road race dual outlet header not knowing that it was meant for a s5 13b. ( No back pressure pick up tube )
So I bought the back pressure pick up tube and had it welded in at the exact same place as the acual 86-88 road race dual outlet header.
( I also have the ac & av blocking plate in place on the lower intake manifold )
I also picked up the Racing beat dual road racing mufflers and took it down to local shop and had them weld in the center section of the exhaust so that I will have a true dual exhuast from engine all the way to the mufflers. ( I didn't use the presilencers and the y pipe that racing beat charges a arm and leg for)
So with all that being said the problem I'm having is that the port actuator arnt opening like they should!!! What a huge bummer!
I know that it doesn't take much to ( 1.2 psi to start and 2.1 at fully open).
I notice that when I pulled the rubber vacumm hose from the header pick up tube and revved the car up that there was exhaust air pushing its way out instead of the air being sucked out to open the auxiliary actuator.
Now I have welded in the pick up tube in the exact same spot as racing beat does on the 86 - 88 six port dual outlet road race header.
*****If anyone that has some good ideas on how to get these ports to open properly with the exhaust set up that I'm running*****
I was maybe thinking of running 2 pick up tubes off of each exhuast pipe and teeing them onto one and having it Run to the actuator tube. I know I doesn't take to much to operate these acuators.
Someone give me some good pointers please.
07-11-10, 05:17 PM
#2
How do you know they are not opening besides visually looking at them and revving the engine in neutral? Have you done the grease test?
The S4 5th & 6th port actuators will not open unless there is a load on the engine to create the amount of air pressure necessary to engage the actuators, you MAY see them open in neutral if you rev it hard up to redline or so but can't promise anything.
I am not familiar with the routing of the pickup tube to the actuators on S4's, are they just hooked straight to the actuators from the pickup tube on the exhaust and don't go through the lower intake manifold at all?
Either way, hope this helps.
The S4 5th & 6th port actuators will not open unless there is a load on the engine to create the amount of air pressure necessary to engage the actuators, you MAY see them open in neutral if you rev it hard up to redline or so but can't promise anything.
I am not familiar with the routing of the pickup tube to the actuators on S4's, are they just hooked straight to the actuators from the pickup tube on the exhaust and don't go through the lower intake manifold at all?
Either way, hope this helps.
07-11-10, 05:44 PM
#3
How do you know they are not opening besides visually looking at them and revving the engine in neutral? Have you done the grease test?
The S4 5th & 6th port actuators will not open unless there is a load on the engine to create the amount of air pressure necessary to engage the actuators, you MAY see them open in neutral if you rev it hard up to redline or so but can't promise anything.
I am not familiar with the routing of the pickup tube to the actuators on S4's, are they just hooked straight to the actuators from the pickup tube on the exhaust and don't go through the lower intake manifold at all?
Either way, hope this helps.
The S4 5th & 6th port actuators will not open unless there is a load on the engine to create the amount of air pressure necessary to engage the actuators, you MAY see them open in neutral if you rev it hard up to redline or so but can't promise anything.
I am not familiar with the routing of the pickup tube to the actuators on S4's, are they just hooked straight to the actuators from the pickup tube on the exhaust and don't go through the lower intake manifold at all?
Either way, hope this helps.
And yes I was revving it up in neutral and was trying to visually see them open but they didn't.
The only reason I thought that they should be opening up with me free revving the motor was because before I put this set up on it was all stock beside a magnaflow cat to replace the old stock ones it would open up by free revving it in neutral.
And the s4 actuators have a hard line that runs from both "actuators" into one that is located on the very lower portion on the intake manifold it goes in to a rubber vaccum line that also runs into a hard line that with taps into the stock main cat so it can use the back pressure to suck open the 2 actuators on a vaccum that is created by the back pressure of the exhuast.
I would post pictures but I'm doing all thins from my phone and it won't let me up load or I'm just not that computer smart.
But if it helps I can email pics if what I have going on.
07-11-10, 06:01 PM
#4
That makes sense how the actuators are hooked into the exhaust. On S5's it runs through the ACV and a lot of other fun stuff. So long as your actuators are connected straight to the exhaust you will be fine on that part.
The actuators don't operate on vacuum for S4's (i thought they did at one point also), but operate by the pressure generated by the exhaust during load.
Your exhaust is probably free flowing much better now and in idle you cannot get the required air pressure to activate the actuators (they require around 1.5PSI of pressure).
Grease test: Apply generous amount of grease to the base of the actuator rod, where the rod meets the actuator body (s4's rod gets pushed INTO the actuator to open the port). Drive the car around spiritedly, making sure to go past 5k rpm. Go back home, check the actuator.
On properly working actuators, the grease will get smeared all over the actuator rod when it gets pushed into the actuator body as it opens up your ports. If not working, grease will only remain where you applied it.
You cannot do this test on S5's as the rod pushed OUT, so the grease will not get smeared on the rod like the S4's will.
Do this and report back.
The actuators don't operate on vacuum for S4's (i thought they did at one point also), but operate by the pressure generated by the exhaust during load.
Your exhaust is probably free flowing much better now and in idle you cannot get the required air pressure to activate the actuators (they require around 1.5PSI of pressure).
Grease test: Apply generous amount of grease to the base of the actuator rod, where the rod meets the actuator body (s4's rod gets pushed INTO the actuator to open the port). Drive the car around spiritedly, making sure to go past 5k rpm. Go back home, check the actuator.
On properly working actuators, the grease will get smeared all over the actuator rod when it gets pushed into the actuator body as it opens up your ports. If not working, grease will only remain where you applied it.
You cannot do this test on S5's as the rod pushed OUT, so the grease will not get smeared on the rod like the S4's will.
Do this and report back.
07-11-10, 10:22 PM
#6
That makes sense how the actuators are hooked into the exhaust. On S5's it runs through the ACV and a lot of other fun stuff. So long as your actuators are connected straight to the exhaust you will be fine on that part.
The actuators don't operate on vacuum for S4's (i thought they did at one point also), but operate by the pressure generated by the exhaust during load.
Your exhaust is probably free flowing much better now and in idle you cannot get the required air pressure to activate the actuators (they require around 1.5PSI of pressure).
Grease test: Apply generous amount of grease to the base of the actuator rod, where the rod meets the actuator body (s4's rod gets pushed INTO the actuator to open the port). Drive the car around spiritedly, making sure to go past 5k rpm. Go back home, check the actuator.
On properly working actuators, the grease will get smeared all over the actuator rod when it gets pushed into the actuator body as it opens up your ports. If not working, grease will only remain where you applied it.
You cannot do this test on S5's as the rod pushed OUT, so the grease will not get smeared on the rod like the S4's will.
Do this and report back.
The actuators don't operate on vacuum for S4's (i thought they did at one point also), but operate by the pressure generated by the exhaust during load.
Your exhaust is probably free flowing much better now and in idle you cannot get the required air pressure to activate the actuators (they require around 1.5PSI of pressure).
Grease test: Apply generous amount of grease to the base of the actuator rod, where the rod meets the actuator body (s4's rod gets pushed INTO the actuator to open the port). Drive the car around spiritedly, making sure to go past 5k rpm. Go back home, check the actuator.
On properly working actuators, the grease will get smeared all over the actuator rod when it gets pushed into the actuator body as it opens up your ports. If not working, grease will only remain where you applied it.
You cannot do this test on S5's as the rod pushed OUT, so the grease will not get smeared on the rod like the S4's will.
Do this and report back.
07-11-10, 10:31 PM
#7
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As the man stated.they won't Activate unless you are under load.so you have to drive it to see if the actuators are working.
smearing grease on the rods will show you if they are working or not( because it is kind of hard to look at them while you are Driving!!!).
smearing grease on the rods will show you if they are working or not( because it is kind of hard to look at them while you are Driving!!!).
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07-12-10, 05:57 PM
#9
TADA! Activating aux. ports with the stock airpump: https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/activating-aux-ports-vdi-rpm-switches-907824/.
You mentioned in your first post that you felt exhaust gases flowing out of the hose when you disconnected it. That's exactly what you should feel. The actuators get pulled in, but that doesn't mean they have vacuum applied to them. They will see positive pressure from the air being forced against the diaphragm.
What diameter tubing was used for your pick up tube? If I were to do it that way, I'd use something very small like 1/8" ID to help ensure the actuators saw enough pressure. Two small tubes on either side of the header would behave more like a tube located in a collected exhaust, so I would think it could produce more pressure than a single tube coming off one side alone.
You mentioned in your first post that you felt exhaust gases flowing out of the hose when you disconnected it. That's exactly what you should feel. The actuators get pulled in, but that doesn't mean they have vacuum applied to them. They will see positive pressure from the air being forced against the diaphragm.
What diameter tubing was used for your pick up tube? If I were to do it that way, I'd use something very small like 1/8" ID to help ensure the actuators saw enough pressure. Two small tubes on either side of the header would behave more like a tube located in a collected exhaust, so I would think it could produce more pressure than a single tube coming off one side alone.
07-13-10, 01:24 AM
#10
That makes sense how the actuators are hooked into the exhaust. On S5's it runs through the ACV and a lot of other fun stuff. So long as your actuators are connected straight to the exhaust you will be fine on that part.
The actuators don't operate on vacuum for S4's (i thought they did at one point also), but operate by the pressure generated by the exhaust during load.
Your exhaust is probably free flowing much better now and in idle you cannot get the required air pressure to activate the actuators (they require around 1.5PSI of pressure).
Grease test: Apply generous amount of grease to the base of the actuator rod, where the rod meets the actuator body (s4's rod gets pushed INTO the actuator to open the port). Drive the car around spiritedly, making sure to go past 5k rpm. Go back home, check the actuator.
On properly working actuators, the grease will get smeared all over the actuator rod when it gets pushed into the actuator body as it opens up your ports. If not working, grease will only remain where you applied it.
You cannot do this test on S5's as the rod pushed OUT, so the grease will not get smeared on the rod like the S4's will.
Do this and report back.
The actuators don't operate on vacuum for S4's (i thought they did at one point also), but operate by the pressure generated by the exhaust during load.
Your exhaust is probably free flowing much better now and in idle you cannot get the required air pressure to activate the actuators (they require around 1.5PSI of pressure).
Grease test: Apply generous amount of grease to the base of the actuator rod, where the rod meets the actuator body (s4's rod gets pushed INTO the actuator to open the port). Drive the car around spiritedly, making sure to go past 5k rpm. Go back home, check the actuator.
On properly working actuators, the grease will get smeared all over the actuator rod when it gets pushed into the actuator body as it opens up your ports. If not working, grease will only remain where you applied it.
You cannot do this test on S5's as the rod pushed OUT, so the grease will not get smeared on the rod like the S4's will.
Do this and report back.
I did notice that the tube I had welded in isn't getting a direct flow of exhuast. It is kind of going in at a angle inside the header. Instead of the opening of the pick up tube facing the the exhaust opening of the engine port.
I guess I could just see about rewelding anothing pick up tube and doing away with the bad one.
Is there any other way of making this work?
07-13-10, 07:28 AM
#11
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Get a couple of feet of vacuum hose that will fit on the air feed tube at the actuators. Blow as hard as you can into the hose. The actuator rods should retreat into the actuators. If they don't...........you have a air leak at the acturators or at one of the banjo bolts that hold the air feed tube to the assy.
If an air pump was on this car...........you could buy a rpm switching device from ?????(can't remember the name this minute...........ooops, SUMMITRACING.COM. Follow the instructions for attaching this item to your trail coils diagnostic port for rpm (single wire bullet connector).
Set the switch for???? try 4 grand for right now to make life simple for me.
Now I think you have a EGR solenoid on that car. So pull that solenoid off the engine and plug the two vacuum lines that were attached to it.
Move it to the left side of the engine and near the boost/pressure sensor area. Find a switched source of power for the solenoid. The BLACK/WHITE wire in the TPS check connector is just fine and dandy....and attach that to one of the solenoids electrical prongs. Matters not which.
Then if memory serves, the SUMMITRACING instructions give you two ways of using that device. You can have it output a GROUND or a VOLTAGE signal. You want a ground signal in this case to be outputted at 4 grand. So run this gnd wire to the solenoid and install it on the other prong of the solenoid.
Now buy a ?? 3/16" plastic vacuum tube from PEPBOYS or some such place. They are made by VAcuumTite I think. Now find the large hose that goes from the airpump to the ACV to feed the ACV ......air. Get a drilll smaller than 3/16" and drill a hole in that hose. You should have to PUSH the VacTite tube into the hose. Like a press fit almost.
Attach a vacuum hose to that plastic VacTite tube and run the other end to the solenoid. Then get another piece of vacuum hose and run it from the other nipple on the solenoid to the feed pipe for the actuators.
Start the engine and rev it over four grand. The actuator rods will retreat and all will be fine in the world again.
I think the EGR solenod is yellow on that car. Might be wrong.
That's a general outline of how it could be done. Personally on my non turbo I use the RTEK to send the gnd to the solenoid. I used a spare solenoid in lieu of the EGR solenoid.
If an air pump was on this car...........you could buy a rpm switching device from ?????(can't remember the name this minute...........ooops, SUMMITRACING.COM. Follow the instructions for attaching this item to your trail coils diagnostic port for rpm (single wire bullet connector).
Set the switch for???? try 4 grand for right now to make life simple for me.
Now I think you have a EGR solenoid on that car. So pull that solenoid off the engine and plug the two vacuum lines that were attached to it.
Move it to the left side of the engine and near the boost/pressure sensor area. Find a switched source of power for the solenoid. The BLACK/WHITE wire in the TPS check connector is just fine and dandy....and attach that to one of the solenoids electrical prongs. Matters not which.
Then if memory serves, the SUMMITRACING instructions give you two ways of using that device. You can have it output a GROUND or a VOLTAGE signal. You want a ground signal in this case to be outputted at 4 grand. So run this gnd wire to the solenoid and install it on the other prong of the solenoid.
Now buy a ?? 3/16" plastic vacuum tube from PEPBOYS or some such place. They are made by VAcuumTite I think. Now find the large hose that goes from the airpump to the ACV to feed the ACV ......air. Get a drilll smaller than 3/16" and drill a hole in that hose. You should have to PUSH the VacTite tube into the hose. Like a press fit almost.
Attach a vacuum hose to that plastic VacTite tube and run the other end to the solenoid. Then get another piece of vacuum hose and run it from the other nipple on the solenoid to the feed pipe for the actuators.
Start the engine and rev it over four grand. The actuator rods will retreat and all will be fine in the world again.
I think the EGR solenod is yellow on that car. Might be wrong.
That's a general outline of how it could be done. Personally on my non turbo I use the RTEK to send the gnd to the solenoid. I used a spare solenoid in lieu of the EGR solenoid.
07-14-10, 03:02 AM
#12
Ok guys I really do appreciate all the info givin to me on this subject I actually understand how the port actuators really work. I really thought it was vacumm that opened up the 5th & 6th port.
But I had a look at what they really did with the header. I pulled it off late last night and took a peek at the air pick up tube that I had them weld on. Well it wasn't anything like I told them I wanted and that they told me they could do! Instead of them drilling it in right on the bend of the right tube of the header where the header meets up with the engine they put it in at the top of the header and they didn't put the tube inline with the exhaust port so that it would catch the most air possible they cut the air pick up tube and welded it flush with the header tubing.
Not only that but they backed off one of the engine/ exhaust post out of the engine and replaced it with a bolt and about 4-5 washers!!!
Oh and that not all!!! Out of 2 flippin retards couldn't figure out that the o2 sensor was only hand tight and it WASN'T PLUGGED IN TO THE HARNESS!!!
VERY BAD, and LAZY workmanship form "PERFORMANCE MUFFLERS" in phx az off of 19th and cactus.
I don't normaly bad mouth people like this but god d*mn my 4 year old daughter could have done better! Lol.
Well now I can sleep alittle better knowing that it wasn't something worse.
Hell I might even go the rout of building the air pump and rpm switch to activate the acuator.
***Thanks to all that took the time to listen to my issue and give great advice on the subject!***
But I had a look at what they really did with the header. I pulled it off late last night and took a peek at the air pick up tube that I had them weld on. Well it wasn't anything like I told them I wanted and that they told me they could do! Instead of them drilling it in right on the bend of the right tube of the header where the header meets up with the engine they put it in at the top of the header and they didn't put the tube inline with the exhaust port so that it would catch the most air possible they cut the air pick up tube and welded it flush with the header tubing.
Not only that but they backed off one of the engine/ exhaust post out of the engine and replaced it with a bolt and about 4-5 washers!!!
Oh and that not all!!! Out of 2 flippin retards couldn't figure out that the o2 sensor was only hand tight and it WASN'T PLUGGED IN TO THE HARNESS!!!
VERY BAD, and LAZY workmanship form "PERFORMANCE MUFFLERS" in phx az off of 19th and cactus.
I don't normaly bad mouth people like this but god d*mn my 4 year old daughter could have done better! Lol.
Well now I can sleep alittle better knowing that it wasn't something worse.
Hell I might even go the rout of building the air pump and rpm switch to activate the acuator.
***Thanks to all that took the time to listen to my issue and give great advice on the subject!***
07-14-10, 06:33 AM
#14
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Actually should open even at close to idle that way. But they are supposed to only open somewhere over 3800rpm. They stay shut below that speed so the engine will have more torque at lower rpms.
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