nsomnia_redline

my buddy mat is a mechanic for the us army. he is here on leave and approached me with an idea. i thought id ask you guys what you thought. im running 88 n/a with a coolant leak. i don't have long before i have to overhaul my motor at witch time mat suggested i run a stock turbo at 5psi with no inter cooler. i am completely skeptical but he wants me to try it out for a few extra under the hood. but nothing extreme i guess. everything i know about this tells me this is a vary bad idea that also in theory will be less efficient with out the inter cooler plus the n/a drive train sucks nut sack as is. honestly i don't even give a **** about turbos and like my n/a just fine but is it possible and if not what part of this idea is doomed and why. just learning if you cant tell. thanks

RETed

Sure, it's possible.
It's not the most efficient way of running a turbo, but it should work.
As a rule, keep it under 7psi, and running without an IC is okay.
I think the first gen Celica All-trac did not run an IC and running low boost.

I dunno he's so persistent on having you try this...
It's not his car, and you've already stated that you're happy the way your car is running.

The "problem" with boost is that you always want more.
This is when you get into trouble!


-Ted

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

But why? It's in no way worth the effort to run 5 PSI.

Acroy

iTrader: (3)

"hot" turbo is a scary way to go but it has been done... I believe there were sevral hot turbo setups from the factory in addition to the Celica RETed mentions. Therer's a low-pressure hot turbo kit available for my 2.0 liter Protege as well, has been used with some success.

I'd be interested in using a hot turbo + water injection for cooling. Could be an easy, cheap, fairly safe way to go.

If this was my car, I'd just put a big port on the motor, add supporting fuel/timing control, and get plenty more power while staying with the simplicity and reliability of n/a.

Cheers

HKSpoweredFC3S

So you have a coolent leak, and your wanting to run boost now? I'm confussed about your intentions.

nsomnia_redline

yes coolant leak vary bad... no not wanting to run boost... i just want to know more about possibilities. he did spark that interest yes but i would like to keep my motor as complicated free as possible. as far as mods are concerned i do NOT intend on building my motor on a coolant leak. im not entirely sure you read my post so i will make it clearer for you so its less confusing. my motor is on its way out as i stated at this juncture im thinking about the future witch included rebuilding my motor and like any good car enthusiast if i have to rebuild then i might as well do as much "while im in there" work as i can get in. which could include but not limited to porting, hot turboing, and other such mods. also the usual things such as clutch and tranny rebuilds.

Acroy

iTrader: (3)

I'd suggest start with a stout rebuild with a big streetport or even half-bridgeport if you are willing to sacrifice a bit of mpg.

Then, when (if?) the n/a isn't enough, go turbo. Word of warning: tubo system of ANY type increases the complexity and thus chance of failure quite a lot.

I have a strong n/a and honsetly it has been more fun as a daily street-driven car than my old 400whp turbo monster.

nsomnia_redline

EXACTLY!!!!! my friend argues with me that turbo is the best. i really like running just n/a. do they have rebuild kits that will hold up to more abuse or are we all using the same stuff that Mazda did when they built these engines? additionally whats a stout rebuild? and street port or half bridge port? i just half to be honest here i hear people talking about this but am not familiar with what they are or do or where do get them. or if i can do it myself.

beefhole

iTrader: (29)

Why bother going the lengths of turbo charging, and not going the little extra to use an intercooler? People in the F/S sections are selling stock intercoolers all the time for like 20 bucks.

Black91n/a

The increase in temperature from a low boost turbo system will be much less than a higher boost system, and an intercooler can only cool the air so much, so there's a point where it's really not worth it for a couple degrees drop in temperature. There's really nothing wrong with a non-intercooled low boost turbo system, as long as you keep the boost low, but then there's not as much point in doing all that work.

gkarmadi

iTrader: (20)

^^^ Like he said... BOOST is addictive. Once you feel it...you only want more and more and more.

If you wanna do the work once...and if and only if you decided to go turbo, then get an fmic.

HKSpoweredFC3S

Your cheapest and best bet, is to port the motor and make a badass N/A.

philyII

dont do it..

killalot13601

iTrader: (5)

IMO, if you can afford to put gas in your car you can afford to save up 200 dollars for a cheap intercooler setup. Theres nothing wrong with them as long as u can cut the pipes yourself and its incredibly easy. They work great untill you get into higher boost numbers then they suck because the pipes dont stay together for nothing.

Chris

NJGreenBudd

iTrader: (1)

It's your car man, do what you want. But the idea of just strapping a turbo onto the motor and running like that is misleading. The difficult part of adding boost isn't fitting an intercooler, in fact adding an intercooler is one of the easier aspects of the conversion.

Sounds like your best bet would be to have the motor street ported by a rebuilder when the time comes, that way you stay NA and still have more power.

tmc3

I didn't see if anyone answered the question to what a streetport or a half bridgeport is. I'm not an expert, but basicly, you're taking the valves and making them bigger. Unless you REALLY REALLY know what you're doing you can't do it your self, but there are a lot of shops that will to it and it doesn't cost a whole lot of money as long as you have the motor out already.

tmc3

I also forgot to mention about the porting that by making them bigger, it increases the amount of time that they are open and when during the cycle that they are open, essentially changing the overall intake and exhaust timing. It's like adding an aggressive cam in a piston motor.

ITSWILL

iTrader: (12)

"valves"???

Blackfc3srx7

iTrader: (1)

No valves on rotary motor. Porting can be done with the right tools but getting someone who has done it before would be better unless you have extra irons to practice with.

noshow

imo waste of time and resources.
go big or be resourceful.

V8what?!

Forget going turbo; if you want to do that, buy an old TII.

Stick with your N/A; when you get your motor rebuilt, get a street port.

It sounds like you're pretty new to this, but at least you'll find some really good opinions here. Unlock all the mysteries of the legendary wankle using the "search" function, then read for hours and hours...

tmc3

The standard understanding of a "Valve" is a hole that closes and opens. A "Port" is a "Valve" that opens and closes depending on the position of the rotor, rather than the standard "Valve" on a piston motor that opens and closes from a camshaft against spring pressure. I'm not an idiot, and I understand that it's called a "Port" on a rotary engine, but for the sake of explanation, that's the term I used. Thanks for the correction smarta$$!!

ITSWILL

iTrader: (12)

I was just kidding, it was actually a good way to describe it.

NinjaGUYdan

There are so many things wrong with this it's silly. Low boost hot turbo is strictly dumb. You might as well just plum a fan into your intake hooked to a full throttle switch. The heat generation alone will make things dumb, let alone scourcing all your parts just to have a 150whp at best motor. Then you have to deal with fuel management, and if your smart, timing control. Not meaning to rant hear but hot-turbo systems are ok for some small piston engines, but no good for our rotaries. Power gains would be almost none. If you look at the american sold 200sx from the mid-late 80's: 2.0L NA motor=102 flywheel hp........ 1.8L hot-turbo=120 flywheel hp, add an intercooler and you can gain as much as 25hp with proper sizing on stock boost.

Port your stuff, get a weber DCOE and have up to 180 rear wheel horsepower with no headaches!

KhanArtisT

iTrader: (2)

Yeah I don't think its a good idea. If you don't want to deal with the extra plumbing just spend $200 and get a water injection kit. Just in case you don't know the air will not only be hot because its from the exhaust but also the added heat from the pressurization from the compressor (friction from the air molecules and compressor wheel). Rotary engines are already prone to quick damage from detonation and pre-ignition and the fact that its a higher compression engine won't really help.