Mike's_2nd_Gen

So, I have an 89 non turbo with a stock 13B with 180k on it and a 5 speed. Im wanting to build an all around race car out of it. Drift, street tracks, and drag. I know how to build piston driven engines, but I started looking into the internals of this rotary and was really thrown off. So my questions for yall is how would I go about turning that much HP out of my car? Would I need to completely swap motors? Maybe a three rotor? Twin turbos? Nos? What are yalls recommendations?

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

Rebuild/port a TurboII motor, put it in.

You'll want a turbo drivetrain as well.

large single turbo, aftermarket EMS (of your choice), the obvious fuel system, a rad, FMIC, etc and 500HP is easy.

Flash

iTrader: (2)

Wow. That's an expensive road ahead starting with a 89 NA. I highly suggest using the search function, to see what others have done. Also go to fc3spro.com and view the tech sections. There's cost break-downs, engine swap info etc.

At the bare minimum you must absolutely swap the motor, and practically everything else in a turbo II into yours. You may want to find a TII to start instead and sell your 89 NA. Bottom-line is you will be replacing almost every part on the car and buying a whole legion of after market to make 500+. I hate to say it, but you may want to consider the whole v8 ls1 swap. It's not my thing, but it depends on your goals and how much you want to spend.

dwb87

iTrader: (22)

- 13B-RE
- EMS
- big turbo
- big injectors
- exhaust
- V-mount set-up

wackaloo13

iTrader: (3)

13b-re, haltech e6x at a minimum, aspec 500r or ptrim gt35 or t04z, 760/1600 injectors, a huge intercooler, maybe some methanol injection, suspension stuff, a clutch, tii tranny. and a good tune is going to be really important too.

you can always go with a 20b. 500hp with a 20b is trivial.

good luck

Mike's_2nd_Gen

Well I want to keep the rotary because of the torque band on it. I have fallen in love with that. LS1 really isnt my thing either since I hate import/American hybrids. I have looked into cost efficiency of a complete motor swap and a company up in Dallas sells TII motors with the trans and ECU with it for like $1800. The swap isnt really what Im worried about because I know I can do that on my own. What I am worried about though is buying a turbo charged engine with 40k on it already and having to rebuild it.

But I had planned on having the engine bored for 3mm apex seals instead of the 2mm factory ones. I had heard that was a good thing to do with a turbo's high horsepower rotary. I was also thinking about a twin Turbonetics T6 turbo setup. But I was also considering putting in a 3 rotor engine, but I saw somewhere that those were running upwards of 14 grand, so...

The car already has some aftermarket parts on it, such as a full cat-back exhaust system, upgraded shocks and struts, and a lowering kit. As well as a cold air intake but that doesnt mean a whole lot to me. But I figure if for around $10k I can build and install a 500 HP motor, then I will be doing good because I didnt pay that much for the car to begin with.

But since the stock motor is only pushing around 160 HP and the turbo motor is pushing 200 HP. Maybe it would be more efficient to build it up to 350-400 HP and just add NOS. Swapping motors and getting an added 150 HP out of it shouldnt really be that hard. A few minor upgrades and a good tuning job should do that.

But is 350 horsepower good enough in this car? Will it give me a good ability to road race and drift as well as drag when needed? Plus what will it do to gas mileage?

wackaloo13

iTrader: (3)

if you want to get to 350-400 you can always go with a bnr stage 3 or 4 turbo upgrade.

also, if you want to have high hp and you are swapping engines just go with the 13b-re its a better block. you can easily pick up a trans on the forum.

also it seems like you want to use the stock ecu... that doesnt seem like such a great idea to me.

good luck on your project.

just a warning.... i garauntee you are going to blow your budget... you always forget a bunch of little things and that gets expensive

Mike's_2nd_Gen

Well I plan on upgrading from the stock ECU with something better. But I really dont have a budget for this. Its just something I want to do so I may have to do it piece by piece, but it will be done... one day.

Flash

iTrader: (2)

Check this guys drift vids out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pJrNNK7uUs

His name on rx7club is boostinmys5. He has an s5 with bolt-ons as he says. IIRC he's at around 350 whp.

Slammedblk7

iTrader: (7)

Forgot to mention, a drawer full of money.

killinit937

20b garret g48 turbo. 550cc primary's. 1680cc secondaries
571+ hp to the wheels. :-)

j n

i would get some racingbeat race rotors, lighter housings, a bridge port, and get the full exhaust from RB.

MidnightOwl

NOS stickers and a K&N!!

ericgrau

iTrader: (1)

$20,000++. No joke. Do a search and find the 500+wHP 2nd gens. ~250HP, OTOH, shouldn't be too hard on a TII engine. 300+HP takes a bit more work, but still do-able w/o getting insane.

TehMonkay

iTrader: (-1)

$20K? AHAHAHA. Doubt that alot.

Buy a J-spec engine and transmission from an S5, have it rebuilt and ported, buy an hks log manifold and a T-78, get some big *** injectors a 6 puck act clutch and some meth injection. Run an aeromotive A-1000 and a haltec. Corksport intercooler kit and radiator.

Then do the suspension and brakes. Wheels tires etc.

It will cost far less than $20k.

250WHP is ottainable with a stock clutch stock turbo stock intercooler and a stock ecu set aside an rtek 2.0 perhaps. Just a racingbeat exhaust, or any 3" exhaust for that matter.

BNR turbos can make up to 350whp, some laim more, but the lag is bad. I know two people, one runs a bnr stage 2 and the other had a T4 setup, the guy with the T4 setup said he had about as much lag as the guy the the bnr stage 2, except he was making 360whp.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

$20k is on the high side, but expect to be nickled-and-dimed with all sorts of little bullshit like rebuilding drivetrain parts, couplers, tuning, wheels & tires.

FelixIsGod29X

iTrader: (50)

Your way in over your head. First do a lot of searching. Do a full T2 swap and slowly upgrade it. About BNR turbos i heard the only one with lag is the stage 4, which still spooled around 4k. I rather a bnr hybird over a turbonetics anyday.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Hmmm...while I'm sure you are aware, the setup for all of these is totally different. For drag you're going to ned that 500HP, but not so much for (yuck) drifting and road racing. In fact it may be a hinderance....A drag car is going to be crappy on the road course, and a car set up to drift is going to be crappy everywhere.

To make this power reliably and with the broadest torque curve, you should use the 20B. 500HP is easy from a 20B with a moderatly sized turbo (GT40) and you'll maintain turbo response as well.

A safe estimate for cost on getting the engine in there alone would be approximately $20,000 - $25,000 if you do most of the work yourself.

dean23

if anything get an s5 tii engine. i have a streetport on mine with a microtech (which are cheap and easy to get) aftermarket exhaust and a large FMIC and im pushing 317 at the flywheel. atleast thats what my max out injectors are saying. my compression is also at 125 in the front and 130 in the rear....

just stick with either a 2nd gen or 3rd gen motor. itll be easier and cheaper than most other options. dont waste your time thinking about rx8 engines. theyre a pain in the *** to install and although the hp numbers look good, theres no torque to back it up. a lightly modded tii would kill a new rx8 off the line, and probably the rest of the way down the track. if you do get a jspec engine, get it rebuilt, ported and have the internals upgraded (ie. 3rd gen springs, rx8 eshaft, possibly even lightened rotors, etc). those engines just sit in junkyards in japan until they are bought, so nobody knows how bad they really are.

bigger injectors will be a must, along with the fuel supply system. for your hp goals, i would run dual walboro 255's with 1680cc secondaries and 720cc to 1000cc primaries at least. that should get you all the fuel your going to need.

60-1, gt35 or gt40 turbos will work well with meth injection and if your up for it, nos could help a lot if done correctly.

ignition should be looked at also... hotter plugs, hotter wires, hotter coils... you get the picture.

like aaron cake said, you first need to decide what this car is going to be used for. and how much your going to drive it off the track.

Juiceh

iTrader: (4)

For big power you want colder plugs, not hotter.

Slammedblk7

iTrader: (7)

Damn....most of yall just don't know. It is attainable but, not as easy as you make it sound.

Mike's_2nd_Gen

Rebuilding a race motor never is easy.

Look I really appreciate your help, but for those of you saying Im in over my head or whatever, please just go away. I really value yalls help, but dont be stupid. I have built piston driven race motors before and know my way around a garage. I know what I can and cant do. When it comes to electrical and hooking up the turbo's yeah I will have to have someone do it for me. But as fars as building a high-horsepower ready motor, Im fine.

I basically was asking what is the most common, and what yall have done, ways of getting more power. This being my first rotary I am looking for as much insight into them before I start gutting mine so I know what to expect and look for. Not if you think I should do it because its gonna cost too much. Im basically just looking for insight into rotary motors.


But anyway, back on topic now that that is out of the way. I was thinking about going to a salvage yard and picking up a 13B-RE block thats already turbo charged and rebuilding from there. That way I am not having to rip my motor out and be out of a car for a few months. So what kind of parts should I be looking at for rebuilding that kind of motor?

Eternal_Gamer

iTrader: (10)

1. I'm just curious, you can't put on a turbo, but can rebuild a high horsepower engine? Electrical is also very important to a car. If you can't do these you will spend lots of money to have someone else do it. What kind of car/engines did you build. Piston motors are more complicated with more moving parts.

2. The S5 t2 motor would be the cheapest route. But should get you into 500whp with a big turbo like a gt40 series. 300whp should be done easily with a t2 motor.

3. How much money do you have to play with? You should be looking to spend at least $5k, not including the cost of the motor and rebuilding it or buying a running t2. If you don't have these funds, there's no sense in helping you. but if you do, be prepared to spend more for things here and there.

Mike's_2nd_Gen

OK...

1. Piston driven engines may be more complex in theory given the amount of moving parts, but they are also the typical form of engine so they are easier to work on. They are actually easier in complexity then an engine that i have never worked on. But yeah, I am used to building engines that are capable of handling high horsepower, which I believe is what I said, but when it comes to adjusting compressions ratios and avoiding detonation, I just dont like doing it. And yeah I can do electrical work, but it will take me longer to do it myself then it would for me to pay someone to do it for me.

2. I was looking into S5 motors. Im planning on buying one and just rebuilding it from ground up. I saw S4's but have heard better things about S5's.

3. As far as money goes, I have more then enough. I bought this car and had money left to rebuild it. I dont really need you looking into my financial matters. I can afford to rebuild this car. Its honestly not going to cost as much as yall are saying. Im not a total moron who is planning on getting ripped off. I plan on spending plenty of money to have a high horsepower, reliable engine. I know where things typically add up and where the hidden costs come in and I know how to avoid them, so...

Eternal_Gamer

iTrader: (10)

I'm not trying to get all in your financial matters, but just a simple question if you have at least $5K. And Trust me, you will need at least that, and thats if you do the work yourself. You mentioned earlier "Well I plan on upgrading from the stock ECU with something better. But I really dont have a budget for this. Its just something I want to do so I may have to do it piece by piece, but it will be done... one day.", and thats exactly why I asked such a question. A lot of people try to do things and end up stopping because of financial reasons. Let's break down the costs a bit with low prices since you think its NOT gonna cost as much as some of us are saying. rebuildable complete motor - $500. rebuild kit and you do it your self - $1000. T2 Drivetrain and 4POT Brakes(you will need because NA cant handle much) - $500, Radiator - $500, Turbo - $500, Intercooler - $500, Standalone - $500 Full 3" exhaust - $500, Boost controller and gauges - $500, Wideband - $500, Fuel injectors, Fuel pump, Fuel Pressure Regulator - $500, thats already past $5k which is with hookup prices. This doesnt include suspension, lots of labor, and other misc stuff. So I'm pretty sure I'm not lying when I say you need at least $5k and thats getting cheap parts. You get what you pay for.

But if you accidently typed that quote, and really have the funds, then go ahead. And getting a S4 motor would be dumb, because the s5 harness will not work on the s4 motor without some hacking and to me would be a huge waste of time. so get a s5 since you already have a s5 chassis.