Nihilanthic

Ive heard those two cars compared a lot, probably because theyre both smallish japanese imports that handle well and drifters seem to be attracted. The whole "240sx is a better drifter because of steering angle" stuff is something Ive read a lot of the forums here.

I am because of the bang/buck and the sleeperness. Most people expect just a ricer.

As it is Im either gonna go with a TurboII or a 5-lug (4pot brakes/vented discs) and swap in a T-II rear and a LS1/T56. But after hearing 240SXs compared to FCs so damn much, I was just wondering what does each have on the other in terms of braking, suspension, and power?

I know the 4pot FC brakes are AMAZING, and that with the DTSS elminated its a great handler. Ive also seen what they can do with engine swaps, turbos on the stock engine, and coilovers. Not a bad car. Does a 240SX chassis compare favorably? I know it has the 300ZX brake swap option...

How does a 240SX compare? strut front, multilink back, HIVAC instead of DTSS (seems comparable) and most guys get a SR20DET swap because the prices have gone down a lot. I know they can be made capable, but then again almost any car could. SR20DET wont compare to a 13BT too easily because of the lower displacment, but it is obviously more knock-resistant and more efficient at making power from the same airflow relative to a rotary.

What would win in teh end bang for buck wise? (Well, other than a cheapbastard LS1/T56 I could get for $2500 if I shop around :P)

I know theres gonna be a bias towards the FC here (which is one I share) but I was just wondering if anyone here might have hard knowledge about it. other forums Ive found with google are rampant with ricers

Thanks in advance!

Icemark

I Hate Ricers

I have found the S14 chassis to be superior to the FC, in terms of rigidity and overall balance. The S14 wasn't stock, but it wasn't a gutted race car either.

Although the S14 might be better as a drift car overall, why bother? When drifting, the amount of skill is more important then the finer points of the car. The FC seems to be the better choice when one factors in rarity. There are so few FCs out on the tracks compared to 240sx, that fact alone is enought for me.

I don't like S13s much, but that's just me.

Taka87

Before I got my FC I wanted a 240sx. I wanted an old sports car that was rear wheel drive. A car that I could take to the track and have fun. So it was between an FC, 240, and if I had enough cash maybe a 300.
I liked the Look of the FC better then that of the 240. Plus I think you get more for your buck if you get an FC

BUT if you don`t know anything about cars. I think the 240 is a good car to learn on. plus you can find aftermarket parts for the 240 everywhere. you also need to maintain the FC a lot better than the 240`s. But as long as you drive it nice, replace oil and parts on time it should last a long time no problem.
And if you just want to drift I recommend 240. I`v heard the chassis is better for it.

oh and if you want to carry more than 1 passenger you might fit a small person in the back of the 240 hehe

Nihilanthic

Im not going to drift. And if I did the v8 swap I wouldnt THINK of drifting because the average crowd Id find would **** all over me for doing it :P Millen can drift his GTO and try to get blood from a turnip but I'll stick to 'grip' racing where people dont care about flashyness or have displacement-phobia.

Im looking for bang/buck in terms of braking, handling, and power. I KNOW a LS1/T56 is basically going to annihilate everything out there in terms of out of the box power and ultimate power levels (turbo LS1s hit 4 digits eeasy), but the SR20DET swap has gotten *CHEAP* these days. I knowa FC is VERY capable if you eliminate DTSS with proper bushing s, get a 5 lug 4pot vented disc setup to begin with and get coilovers, but then again I was wondering how that compares to a 240SX with its HIVAC eliminated. IHateRicers seems to think the S14 is better in the end, but it wasnt stock.

The SR20DET wont reach the same levels as a LS1 or 13BT because of the displacment disparity - 2 liters vs 5.7 and 2.6 respectively, but its more reliable and most importantly cheap to do.

What Id love is for somehow a nice T-II FC and a 240SX with a SR20DET show up in raleigh and have some nice friendly owners on a nice dry day... but thats REALLY likely...

aznpoopy

overall i think the 240 is going to win budget wise.

if u you look at aftermarket parts for the 240sx vs the FC, the FC is crazy expensive. i have a hard as hell time finding something simple like brake rotors for my friend's S4 n/a. and when i did find them they were expensive as hell. just for comparison i did a full brake job on my s14. it cost something like 300 bucks. thats for 4 rotors (brembo blanks), a full set of pads (hawk hps), junkyard rear calipers, new brake lines (oem) and 2 cans of ATE superblue. for comparison, a set of rotors from mazdatrix for a FC costs 80 bucks PER ROTOR! thats 320 bucks just for rotors. insane man. insane.

btw i think you mean HICAS. unlike rx7's, not all 240sx's came with HICAS. in fact, most 240sx's don't have it. and there are hicas eliminators just like there are eliminators for the rx7.

brakes : 300zx front brakes + s14 rears + s14 auto master cylinder = stock silvia K brake setup in japan. that's what i'm going to do. other options are q45 brakes, or 300zx all around + 300zx m/c. not to mention there are different 300zx brakes. 30mm, 26mm, iron, aluminum, etc.

honestly though, you don't need it. i know people who run stock 240sx brakes with decent quality blanks and high temperature racing brake pads (like cobalts). no fade on road course. and you can lock up your wheels. in other words, stock brakes are fine. just get some serious tires.

suspension : well, um. its good. you need to fix alot of stuff just like the FC. some ppl on 240sx forums mumble all day about how the suspension design is like awesome and made the 180sx a 300zx killer in japan. honestly, i just think its good because its FR and not some archaic suspension setup. lots of aftermarket options. just about every arm on the 240sx has a couple of aftermarket replacements available. they are relatively cheap too.

engines:
ka24de - u can get one for a few hundred bucks. and they're everywhere! they also handle low boost quite well. 5psi ~ 200whp. not bad for a 'truck engine'. people build it for higher boost. also a great engine when you're just starting out. theres a community built around this engine, despite what drifter fanboys say about it.

redtop sr20det - for $2000 bucks u can get a stock turbo charged engine that puts out 200 bhp 200 torque or so. a few things like exhaust, i/c and boost controller can get you more power relatively quickly. what else is there to say?

other sr20dets - get a little more hp for alot more money. some are fancier engines with nissans version of vtec - vvt something. i forgot. anyway... s13 blacktop, s14 sr20det, s15 sr20det. the s15 sr20det puts out like 250bhp i believe. it also doesn't fit in a s13 nearly as easily as the other sr20s. you also need the s15 helical LSD for some reason that i forgot.

i believe sr20dets in near stock trim still get 30mpg. yay for 4 bangers!

on the other hand:

13BT - take it out of your car and get it rebuilt and ported from kevin for 1500 bucks. might need a new turbo too. oh, and its 100% legal, unlike the sr20det. budget and headache wise a 13BT is the winner for sure. gets shitty mileage though.

which one is better probably depends on what you want to do with it and how much power you want to make. there are other engine options for a 240 besides a sr and ka.

eriksseven

iTrader: (6)

I've had both the s13 and FC, the FC > s13 IMO.

For non-drifting, the FC will ultimately handle better than the s13. And from my perspective, the FC is actually more predictable in the turns.

Don't get me wrong though, I like both cars, I just like the FC more.

jdmsuper7

iTrader: (1)

Having become rather familiar with both cars (my best friend has a rps13), I figured I should give my input. Stock for stock, esp non-turbo, the FC wins hands down: its as light, has a more exciting engine, better brakes, and it seems to respond a bit better to basic mods. His KA has been much more reliable than my 13bt, but it doesn't have the exotic rotary response to it either. Having used the rear seats on the S13 on many occasions, I've found them to be functional, if not comfortable, which is more than can be said for the FC rear seats. That said, although the KA is more reliable, my FC (stock suspension) is a little stiffer and corners harder, espcially before he got volks to replace the stock rims. I won't compare engines beyond reliability since I have a 50hp+ advantage with my slug. However, with a LS1 in the front, I might have to give the edge to the S13. I think it is a much easier car to handle and has a (technically) more advanced suspension with the wishbone rear. Also, I hate to see a piston engine swapped in a rotary, so my heart would prefer you do it to the S13. Take what you will from this, as it isn't very conclusive. I'd drive either car and be most pleased with it.

Nihilanthic

First off, the v8 FC and v8 FD guys here have proven time and time again the weight distribution is either unaffected or HELPED with the v8 swap and doesnt impact handling regardless. So the engine I put into it is a non-issue in terms of handling :P If you oppose piston engines in a chassis that came with a rotary my only reply is Im mating the best bang/buck of engine with the best bang/buck of chassis out there, basically, by putting a v8 in a RX-7. GNX7's LS1/FD is a damn MONSTER, including the handling department.

Anywho, Im really just working on how to be as cheap as I possibly can, and still do it "right". I could conceiveably get a auto and a 302 in a FC and a shift kit and call it a day, but its not quite what I want. It would be extremely cheap, and responsive to NA mods or a turbo, but finding a manual tranny to work with a ford v8 isnt exactly as easy as a T-56/LS1 pullout, and probably would cost the same in the end.

If the 240 would really end up costing less, I might want to consider that. But I can say that a LS1 FC would quite honestly spank 99% of the cars out on the street and even a majority of modded cars with good tires and a tank of gas. 400 whp is a matter of a cam swap and headers... and its hardly unreliable. While relatively cheap, though, its still going to require a bit of an investment in terms of getting the engine/tranny pullout, and there is the issue of the FC parts prices. The money saved in that could be spent towards the engine or the turbo - like, say, a stroker kit or some head porting or a cam swap, or just a bigger turbo

Im not hating on rotaries here, but I dont want to have to spend money in the future on rebuilds if I do anything with the turbo and Id rather give the 13B to someone who WOULD, especially when cheap *** (price of a rebuild) SR20DETs are out there for 240's and a somewhat more expensive LS1/T-56 would make any recepient FC run 12s on street ries and 11s with slicks.

And no, I dont want a camaro, Id rather step up to a sorted-out chassis and light weight. I just want to have some real power in it too... which means a turbo or a v8 swap

Taka87

I have an FC right now but I plan to get a 240 just for a daily driver because I need to make trips to San Jose from Pleasanton (around 60 miles there and back)like 3-4 days a week. and as everyone knows Rotaries have crappy gas Mileage.

So yea another point Gas prices suck

hIGGI

iTrader: (7)

http://fc3spro.com/TECH/DRIFT/DCOMPARE/dcompare.html

TwinTurbineZ32

how much power are you looking to make? i myself would go with the 240sx with a KA-T engine. the s13 have more aftermarket support. with more aftermarket support there is going to be more competitive pricing. i personally don't think the FC 4 pot calipers brake are AMAZING. they don't bite IMO. if your planning to beat your motor a lot i would still pick the s13 they last forever.

DarkAngelKamui

Not quite true.... Ever hear of "Bubba Drift"?

http://www.bubbadrift.com/

gerbraldy

stock for stock any fc, base model or not is better than a 240. I have driven both many times and the 240's suspension is not good at all. It resembles a passenger car more than a sports car. My friend has an s13 coupe with an sr20swap and some suspension work and that is a nice car, only weighs 2680lbs w/o the driver and it goes pretty fast. 240's are a dime a dozen, I live in a really really small town and theres about 12kids with s13's. Everybody has one or is trying to get one as you know, I'm just glad most people don't own rx7s, me and my friend have to only turbo ones in town and I hope it stays that way.

88 SE

sigh.. drift arguments ...

Overall the 240sx is a newer chassis. Even the S13 has a more advanced and more sophisticated suspension setup.

SR20DET prices have only gone up, contrary to rumor. You'd be lucky to get a swap done for $3000 (the right way)

The 240sx is a better made, more reliable car.

You can't do a $3000 turbo 240sx (unless you know how to fabricate), but you can buy a $3000 turbo FC, and therein lies the "value" difference.

Knock resistance is a load of crap. Bad tuning is bad tuning and will blow up any engine. A piston engines rings are just as brittle and easily damaged as a rotarys apex seals.

Early S13 SR20DET's are pretty much comprable in every way to the 13BT as far as power output.

88 SE

That is completley ignorant. You've obviously never seen the rear subframe and the multilink rear suspension on a 240sx.

Bukwild

I remember about 2-3 years ago before the drift craze you could not give away a 240. A friend had one forsale for almost a year for 3500 and it was in great condition. Now it would be sold in minutes. Funny how trends or movies can increase prices of cars

Nihilanthic

Ok, the FC is better for racing (or 'grip'), the 240 better for drifting. Im probably going to end up doing a LSx swap in the FC, and I've yet to see kits for mounting it in a 240 like I have for the RX-7s, so I think a FC is for me.

gerbraldy

Sorry, I didn't mean to come off ignorant. My experience with driving a stock 140,000mi. 240 was that it was loose, the body just rolled everywhere. My 142k vert is nice and tight, hardly any body roll.