pyro_racer_0016

I am getting ready to purchase a cosmo front clip from japan and am going to put the 20b in my 88 FC but am looking for motor mounts that shift the motor and transmission 4-6 inches backwards so that the weight distribution won't be thrown off, as this will be used as a drift car. I know that this is the proper way to do the swap in an fd. I am having trouble finding mounts other than banzai racing and i don't know how their mounts position the engine.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

You got some metal and a welder? Make a set of mounts if you are not sure about it. I don't know about the Banzai mounts but he'll find the thread and probably comment as to where they locate the engine.

Honestly though, mounts are only a tiny bit of the fabrication you'll need for this project.

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

Our brackets leave the trans in the stock location. There are no changes to the driveline. You will need to make custom mounts for the engine and trans if you want them to sit further back in the tunnel. You will also need to shorten the driveshaft.

87 t-66

iTrader: (133)

i would check with logan @ definedautoworks. he has a vendor section here and posts in the 20b section a lot. i dont know if his move the motor back though.

Evil Aviator

That is not necessarily the 'proper' way to do the swap in an FD. See the article on the Petit Banzai in which they were able to maintain the static weight distribution and even lighten the car a bit by moving and replacing a few simple components.
http://www.geocities.com/evilaviator/banzai1

As stated earlier, you will need more than just mounts to do that, and it is not likely that you have the driving skill, money, and/or fabrication skill to warrant that modification. FYI it would cost about $40-50K to build a serious 20B drift car. You should read through our 20B forum before you buy that Cosmo front clip.
https://www.rx7club.com/20b-forum-95/

pyro_racer_0016

i have a 400hp fd that i drift right now and don't want to take a chance on damaging since i have 50k tied up in it already and the loan for it was a graduation present. So driving skill and money are taken care of and i have unlimited access to a full machine shop since i work at baldor in valley park and have made friends with the machinist that owns his own shop so fabrication is also taken care of i was just looking to save some time if someone already had mounts to shift it backward it wouldn't be worth fabing them myself. My goal is to have th front plate of the engine exactly where it is with the 13b in the car the battery is already being relocated. I am not leaving this engine turbod the 20b will be peripheral ported and ITB'd. U have to remember this will be going in an fc which was a lighter car and will be affected more by where the mass is centered.

Oh BTW don't assume that just cause someone doesn't post very often it means they don't know what they are doing.

Havoc

Im not drift expert, but I would of thought with that extra 0.1% of the weight being moved further forward would not affect drifting at all ? I thought it would be better to have a bit of extra weight up front then out back anyway.

If you going NA your almost going to be as light as a turbo block. The weight distribution difference is going to be sweet FA (Id be guessing like 30kg..)

If your going to go full custom and make bloody everything then why not lower the whole engine and all the rest for better centre of gravity, you going to have to cut up everything anyway.

Even though you have the resources seems like a waist of time for the benefit.

pyro_racer_0016

having more weight on the front isn't good it makes the car slide too easy and will cause the car to snap when straightening or transitioning. In this case it will be like putting an rb20 in an s13 rather than an sr20 more mass will be located farther forward causing the car to understeer on entry and snap oversteer on exit. I like my cars to have as much of the mass centered as possible. I don't want to lower the engine too much as i will still be driving this to and from the track and on the touge where i do the shakedown on my suspension and cars. I am going na to be able to drive it hard with out the worry of boost problems or engine problems. This will cause it to be a more reliable track car.

Evil Aviator

Trust me Nate, your post count has nothing to do with it.

pyro_racer_0016

Who is this????? Do I know you?????

Evil Aviator

Muhahahaha!

pyro_racer_0016

i don't know anyone with a 20b and only one person with a vert, and i don't normally hangout with 41yr olds

farberio

iTrader: (7)

Logan's is for and FD and keeps the transmission in the same spot.

Q: Can I keep the stock transmission, and will the transmission stay in its factory place?
A: Yes, the factory transmission is retained, and not moved from stock. This means no cutting of the PPF frame is made, thus making a much safer 20B powered Rx-7.

87 t-66

iTrader: (133)

fc's have a ppf? is there another name for it with the fc?

farberio

iTrader: (7)

Logan's kit is for an FD!!!

Though he would still be a good person to contact, supreme fabricator and knows his ****.

pyro_racer_0016

well lets meet up and let me see this 20b coupe i want to see how you did it and if i really am wasting my time moving it back

Evil Aviator

My 20B car is currently down in Florida getting new fuel lines and ignition. I will bring it up to St. Louis in a few months once the weather gets warm, and you are welcome to check it out. It is turbocharged with a huge intercooler up front, but other than that it should be fairly close to what you would have on a good drift car (roll cage, fuel cell, stripped interior, race seats, etc.). Unfortunately, it still has the stock-sized TII wheels and tires which I can't do anything about until I install a wide body kit (hopefully next year).

If you can't wait until this summer to check out my car, why don't you just get yours running with the 20B in the stock location and see how you like it? That will save a LOT of time, money, and headaches, and you can always rework the car later if you don't like it. Just tell your header fabricator that you may end up moving the engine back a few inches, and that way he can bend the pipes for clearance and install a slip joint at a point that will make it easy to cut off a few inches if needed.

BTW, my fabricator is The Man, and he made me a special modified TII bell housing that can take either the TII flywheel/starter or NA flywheel/starter. This is a huge advantage because it lets me use a low-inertia NA flywheel with the stronger TII transmission. Since I do not drift, I am not sure if this would be good or bad for you, but my fabricator says he doesn't mind me telling his secret because it is a pain in the rear and he will never do it again himself, lol.

I am not joking, you are looking at $40-50K for a good 20B drift car. I don't see the logic in building a $40-50K drift car because you don't want to risk damaging your $50K FD, especially in this economy. I guess you could build a crappy 20B FC for half that price, but given your personality I don't think you would want to go that route. Only you know your true financial situation, so I hope you at least listen to my cost estimate so you can make a good decision.


I like a bit of weight up front because I am not a pro driver and the extra weight helps keep the car pointed in the right direction. Besides, I am a crusty old American who is more accustomed to a slightly front-heavy sports car. Also, with everything else being equil, the difference is closer to 2% rather than 0.1%, which would move the distribution from 51/49 to 53/47. However, most people move the battery, remove emissions and engine accessories, maybe lighten the hood, etc., so the car can get back to its original weight distribution if desired.

Comparison of popular drift cars:
51/49 Stock FC RX-7
52/48 S13 240SX
53/47 FC RX-7 with 20B but otherwise close to stock form
53/47 Corolla GTS
53/47 350Z
53/47 MkIV Supra
55/45 S14 240SX
60/40 EVO 8

pyro_racer_0016

seriously no more joking do i really know you or are you a moderator or something cause i never mentioned my name and i really don't think i know you.

pyro_racer_0016

Quote from Mazda rx7 performance handbook by mike ancas

"Since the 20B has one more rotor, the engine block is longer by the length of the rotor housing plus the width of the intermediate housing (160 millimeter total). One of the experts performing this conversion is Peter Farrel Supercars, who has done two different versions of this transplant.
Version One: Add that estra 6 inches toward the front of the car. This produces exception power but with a cramped engine compartment. Also, there is more weight ahead of the front wheels, resulting in a less balanced car overall. The advantage is that it's a simpler conversion and requires a minimal amount of cutting.
Version Two: Add the extra 6 inches toward the rear of the car. This approach corrects both of the problems encountered above. The balance of the car is not comprimised, and the engine compartment is not crowded. The problem is that there's no room to add the 6 inches toward the rear of the engine compartment. The solution is to get out the cutting torch. This conversion requires that the transmission be moved 6 inches toward the rear of the car. That's no easy task, and should be left to a professional like Farrel or Pettit."

The reason i am following through with this route no matter what. Is I love these cars due to there overall balance and to mess with that would be a waste so regardless of the work or someones opinion I will move the engine back. It will be more work but I do ALL of my own work as it is the only thing that hasn't been done by me was bending and welding my intercooler pipes as i didn't have a mandrel pipe bender or access to a tig welder.

BASTARD

iTrader: (4)

if you have access to a machine shop and you know how to fabricate... then making your own mounts would be trivial

Evil Aviator

Since you are following the book, are you going to take the car to PFS or Pettit?

BTW, which of the Pettit subframes moves the engine back 6"?

pyro_racer_0016

And to the second question i don't know which one moves it back cause i haven't called them but it wouldn't be any good to me its going in an fc.