millertime6009

iTrader: (1)

I want to run nitrous on my 88 n/a. Im confident if i get colder plugs and run 91 or 93 octane(currently running 87) i should be able to do a 100 shot. Thoughts?

oh and please dont tell me i shouldve gotten a TII i know that already.

cmanns

tell me i shouldve gotten a TII

arghx

iTrader: (3)

the best way to do it honestly would be to get an rtek 2.1 .

use the rtek to pull timing under high loads, rather than just rotating the crank angle sensor, which would affect timing under all conditions. Then you can switch the solenoids using the adjustable rpm-based output and a mechanical WOT switch. then have a wideband on the car to monitor AFR's. if AFR's are too lean you can just rejet the fuel.

Hypertek

iTrader: (3)

"You're lucky that hundred shot of NOS didn't blow the welds on the intake!"

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

wet or dry shot?

millertime6009

iTrader: (1)

wet

dawicka2

rtek2.1(400.00) + reliable nitrous kit (700.00) is just about the price of a t2 engine.

Not what you want to hear..... but it is not too late for that bootleg t2.

Buy jspec with good compression from japan2la, he will probably give you a good deal on maf, throttle cable, boost sensor and ecu. Get an act stage 3 na clutch and use your existing harness and transmission, thats what i did 2 years ago.

It is an easy swap with plenty of info on here for the taking.

Or buy your stick of dynamite......and hopefully tune it perfectly.

Just trying to save you is all. I will shut up now, with all of my turbo speak.

john ny

katkaroto

not that its any of my business but my friend raced my genuine T2 and spanked a 100 shot civic. it may make a difference on a rotary but idk. good luck man.

millertime6009

iTrader: (1)

Ive talked to numerous shops about a TII swap. i can get a low mileage JDM for 1400 shipped and after all other parts needed (downpipe, clutch, driveshaft, etc.) and labor it costs a little over $3000. This is also the price for a rebuild with street port due to the fact that i dont know anyone that owns an FC so Im paying for engine removal and install. So nitrous is the cheapest way to go and my friend runs a 175 shot on his ls1 no problem. and does installs himself.

katkaroto

well, i hope your on the right track. your track i suppose... well, you could get a low milage j-spec and also get the other stuff cheap if your lucky finding so and so on the second parts for sale section. the only part you'd have trouble finding is a T2 diff or if you do T2 tranny to NA Diff.

but i'm guessing i'm wasting my time telling you because you and i have probably read a lot about all this. again, good luck

dawicka2

Yup......if you are not doing the work yourself, nitrous will definately be cheaper.

john ny

arghx

iTrader: (3)

if you do nitrous, there is basically no reason not to get the Rtek 2.1 . do not cut corners on this. I think you could definitely get a used kit. I would go with NX though, they are probably the best quality these days.

the thing is, **** starts adding up. get a used kit with a mechanical WOT switch, purge and fuel solenoid, lines and jets. that's maybe $300 used. But then you need purge. what, $100 used? but then you are going to want a bottle heater. trust me on this man, I have seen my share of nitrous setups, and there is a big difference between those with and without bottle heaters. during the winter the nitrous will hit pretty weak without the heater, because bottle pressure will be down. It's like having a boost leak on a turbo car or something--it just doesn't feel like it used to.

If you go for the nitrous setup, you'll also have to be pretty decent at wiring, in terms of physically making secure connections (and making it clean by hiding the wires while keeping it serviceable), and in being able to draw out circuit diagrams that you can later follow.

You'll want a master arming switch, a purge button, and a bottle heater switch. and you'll want a nitrous pressure gauge.

To do a nitrous setup correctly, cleanly, and safely (what you'd expect from say a Camaro shop that does nitrous all the time), it will be at least as big of a project as swapping out for a T2 engine. trust me. and there is also the cost of nitrous, which has been going up these days. When you first get nitrous you will want to fill that damn bottle every week or so. That's at least $50. and you'll be running premium. When that bottle runs out, you'll feel like somebody cut your ***** off.

millertime6009

iTrader: (1)

true about all those expenses...and i do plan on getting all of those items but the nitrous can be installed by a friend of mine for 100 bucks so im saving the money there.

Messenger87

I know your not really leaning towards doing a Turbo swap on your car but if you are interested, I would look into talking to Karack. His work is beyond amazing at very fair prices, and he stands by his word and product!!! but please take into account that although he does run a legit business he does all his work by himself and has a very good reputation which equals out to lots of business. so be able expect a worthwhile wait for bigger jobs to be completed.

mario1386

if you gonna go nitrous you will need a

255lph fuel pump
for secondarys injectors , 550cc should be fine
a piggy back ,apexi safc2 or neo
wideband
colder plugs 9s would be good

then you will need to tune it on a dyno and spray the nitrous after when the secondarys come online not before

i hope this might help

pfsantos

iTrader: (1)

If I lived in your area, I'd help RE&RE to save you on labour and avoid going the bottle route.

It's not that bad, really, if you have all the parts. Post something in your local section, and offer up a BBQ and beer. Maybe someone nearby will give you a hand.

RandomHero

iTrader: (2)

Not to mention she's gonna be a dog off the bottle.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I would not use an SAFC with a car running nitrous. It will have a somewhat unpredictable effect on ignition timing, something you do NOT want on a car with nitrous!! any time (under load) you "lean out" the mixture on an SAFC it will advance the timing, something you would never want on a car with nitrous. Any time you "richen up" the mixture on an SAFC you are pulling timing to some extent, which will probably make the car feel slower off nitrous. The amount of timing change from messing with an SAFC is not really predictable, not with any level of precision anyway.

IMO, now that the Rtek 2.1 (with real timing control) is out I wouldn't run an SAFC on anything except a nonturbo, non nitrous application.

glhs0867

I love my wet N.O.S. setup. I use a 12v injector wired to the WOT switch. the enitre setup took less than 8 hrs myself. I love to drive around without the system on, so when i turn it on and use it, it feels so much faster, than having a turbo running the power all the time. I have a turbo car and I get to familiar with the power all the time, and after a while it feels slow, not that is is..Its a mind game I think..

I love hit my setup and be able to spin tires @ 80 mph..you should see the other people's faces when the tires sttart to scream and bam your gone..

Its like using a drug...it gives you a good rush, if you don't use it all the time..

just one problem I had, it destroys the oil in the crankcase. so I change my oil every 1000 miles, and I have had no issues for many years now..my .02 cents go for it..its worth it.

millertime6009

iTrader: (1)

I figured when i richened the mixture with the SAFC since the car thought it was getting in more air thus adding more fuel...thus advancing timing to ignite the extra fuel. but your saying it advances timing when you lean it out?

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I'll try to explain this without getting too technical... but I often find myself getting pretty detailed to get my point across. Timing advance increases (plugs fire earlier) as rpms go up, so that much is true. But timing advance also tends to decrease (plugs fire later) as engine load goes up, at least if the engine is making near peak torque (maximum combustion pressure). Since there is more combustion pressure, the flame will propagate through the combustion chamber more quickly, and thus the plugs need to be fired later (aka, less timing advance). When you tell an 80s engine computer on a turbo car that the motor is under less load (by telling it that less air is entering the engine), it will advance the ignition timing to some degree.

Why is that? to somewhat oversimplify it, if more load = more combustion pressure = less timing advance, less load must = less combustion pressure and more timing advance. Again, this is an oversimplification, as a ton of other factors go in to the final numbers. It is well known that on cars like 3000GT's, when you put bigger injectors in you have to use a piggyback to reduce the AFM signal, which in turn results in more timing. That's where the Rtek chips (and other systems like chipped Hondata ECU's) come in. Instead of telling the ECU that less air is coming into the ECU, the ECU sees the same sensor values that it would normally see (inputs are the same, no SAFC trickery). What changes then is how much timing or fuel the ECU will deliver at a given level of airflow/engine load.

So here would be an example, leaving other correction factors out to simplify.

SAFC:

AFM reads 100 units of air volume at a given RPM. Based on the subsequent engine load calculation, normally the ECU would deliver say 20 milliseconds of injector time and 17 degrees of leading timing advance. Well the SAFC changes the value so that the ECU sees 80 units of air under the same conditions (even though it should be 100). The ECU goes into its various tables and decides to deliver 16 milliseconds of injector time (versus 20), so the mixture gets leaner. But since less air is entering the engine, in our scenario there would be less combustion pressure. Less combustion pressure would require that the plug be fired earlier so that the flame can propagate throughout the combustion chamber. So, unbeknownst to the user of the SAFC, who cannot log ignition output, timing advances to say... 20 degrees of advance (higher number = plugs fire earlier).

Rtek 2.1

AFM reads 100 units of air. No SAFC interrupts this signal--the ECU just sees 100 units. Under the factory calibration, the ECU would deliver 20 milliseconds of injector time and 17 degrees of leading timing advance. But by overlaying corrections (or directly changing) the factory maps, we can just tell the ECU that 100 units of air (not 80 units, the " tricked" SAFC value) should have 16 milliseconds of injector time. And then the ECU will keep the factory 17 degrees of timing advance. It is not being "tricked" into thinking there is less engine load.


if anybody cares, here is how engine load is calculated on modern ECU's according to SAE J1979 standards...

millertime6009

iTrader: (1)

great info, really cleared things up. thanks for your post.

TwistedRotors

iTrader: (3)

Have you read Scathcarts write-up for nitrous on the rotary? I think it's a good read.
https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/nitrous-oxide-injection-rotary-111605/
-John

arghx

iTrader: (3)

forgot the engine load calculation thing:

scathcart

All this debate on swapping in a turbo engine being cheaper is pretty pointless.

Let's budget $1200 for the engine install. This gets you a stock turbo engine that can make 250 to the tires if all of the supporting fuel mods are done, which quickly adds to the cost.

Let's budget $1200 for nitrous, and lets do the install right. Screw the 100 shot. Let`s actually do this properly. The engine will handle a 250 shot, so lets go with that.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
$560

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
$100

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku (x2, installed where the auxilary actuators normally go).
$110

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
$120

Add in a walbro for $100, and $300 for ecu. Total: $1290, 400hp to the tires. Build me a TII engine for $1200 that can make 400 to the tires.