Hi everyone,

So i'm stuck trying to decide if I want to spend the money to purchase an Adaptronic S5 PNP ecu to tune my NA motor. On the stock ECU with the VDI mod I was able to dyno at 164hp and 125 torque. From speaking with adaptronic I could tune the car to kick in the VDI earlier. That being said with that PNP ecu would it be possible to squeeze out more power out of the street ported NA engine. If so how much? Would I have to upgrade the fuel system and ignition?

Here is a link to my dyno chart and modifications
Engine Set Up

 

This is going off of what I've read in the N/A section and other places on here. I have no personal experience as I haven't been able to go to a standalone yet( though I plan to one day). From what I read 180whp should be doable with a standalone and you're setup. there have been people hit 200whp though it's not common and there was a lot of tuning going on. Down to tuning the exhaust primary lengths on the dyno as well.

I used to want to do just like you with the Adaptronic pnp or a Power FC but lately I've been leaning more towards a Haltech Elite. Unfortunately there is no PnP option for the FC. They sell connectors for their ecu so I was gonna make a PnP harness out of my spare one.

Here is the thread that changed my mind.
https://www.rx7club.com/engine-manag...-swap-1129016/

P.S. I'm starting to consider FuelTech now as well.

 

Thanks for recommending other options. I'm just curious as to how people got 200whp. That would be bananas in my opinion. I'm favoring the Adaptronic for their PNP function. Which is rare for FCs. Ultimately I'm trying to figure out if it's worth investing money into my NA or just wait until the turboswap happens.

 

I don't think switching to a standalone just to kick in the VDI earlier is going to get you more power, maybe a little more area under the curve. Upgrading the ignition system at the same time, however, could get you to where you want to be.

For reference, I was able to get my REPU to 165hp 135ftlbs without opening the motor. Stock early 13b ports. IGN-1A direct fire coils, a very free flowing quad ITB intake, 4 440cc throttle body injectors, an adaptronic 440d to control it, and a very quiet 2.5" exhaust. I'll port the motor eventually...just didn't see a reason to open up a perfectly good motor until I needed to.

 

I believe one of the Vargas brothers did a back to back on an n/a FC and picked up quite a bit( around 18rwhp) with just an ECU on a full bolt on na FC. AFR/Ignition tuning made the bigger difference.

 

If you are looking to squeeze every last bit of HP out of the engine, you could also add our EWP kit;

https://turbosource.com/collections/...7-ewp-system-1

It wasn't clear if you are using an electric fan or not, that makes a fair difference( just make sure to swap on an FD alternator).

 

I think you have to go 4-port irons to get up near 200's. Or a more "helpful" dyno operator.

Interesting story from RTEK. The stock ecu dyno graph has a big dip around 6k. Yours didn't do that, so I wouldn't expect the same gains just from ecu tuning.
Farewell | digital tuning, inc.

 

Currently using the OEM clutch fan. Though I am aware that with the aftermarket ECU I can wire up an electric fan. An additional 18whp would be huge!

 

You can get near 200rwhp on a Stockport 6 port na.
Like someone else mentioned you have to optimize everything(intake,exhaust,tuning, electric water pump and fan). Turbo is the cheaper hp per dollar route but your still going to want the ecu for that.

Depending non how you plan on using it, it's a good route still. I primarily track mine. Na is budget friendly as a track car.
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It's been done on 6-port motors but it's not common. I think most of them have been true race cars with a lot of tuning time on the dyno. Here's one though its a Mustang dyno. Also of note this is an ITS car which means stock ports. The rules don't allow porting. Dyno.
http://www.banzai-racing.com/dyno_ch...o_10-01-10.jpg

Car info
Banzai Racing (Keefer 13B RX-7 Engine Installation)

 

A lot of tuning. No bolt on exhaust will do it. Has to be custom built and tuned to get there. 180ish whp is probably more realistic for a 6-port. Lots of info in the N/A performance section.
https://www.rx7club.com/naturally-as...nce-forum-220/

 

And it will probably be LOUD

 

 

I have a stock S4 6port NA in a 85 first gen with stock S4 coils, rx8 injectors, RB header and a adaptronic 420D car made almost 200HP wih John vargas tuning on pump gas

 

Did you retain the secondary port actuators?

 

The questions you really need to answer for yourself first are what are your power expectations for an NA motor, and what's your budget? As others have already stated, 200 RWHP, +/- a few ponies, is about the best you can hope for in an NA 13B build. If that's not enough to scratch the itch, then you're looking at going turbo. But for now, let's assume NA is good enough, and I'll also assume that you're eyeing the Adaptronic S5 PNP because you want to minimize your efforts & expenses in building a custom wiring harness. If that's all true, if it were my money I'd consider finding a used Rtek 2.x for your S5NA as another possible option. That would basically replace your stock S5NA ECU with an Rtek chipped S5NA ECU, which also has the ability to tune the factory fuel & spark maps via a Palm device.

 

update..we made 205hp with a small bridge..tuned by the weird..Marco from toronto....full exhaust , all stock components, Adaptronic Basic 420

 

FWIW, I made ~179whp on a stock port 90k mile 13b with ITB's and an old Haltech E6X. A healthy S5 motor has made 200whp before, just ask Banzai Racing.

If you want more power while staying NA, do a peripheral port. I did and I'm currently making ~260whp with room to make more, given a better exhaust set-up. The only downside is cost if you have none of the components already.